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Tuesday's Presidential Debate - Economy - Who Will Say What?

 
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2008 07:57 pm
@SYNRON,
That's good news.

Here's another bit of information that's vitally important.

McCain has gotten to where he is thru nepotism, lying, pandering, prostituting himself in marriage to enhance a political career, ... . He is so much like GWB, two miserable failures in a pod.

He is mentally unstable, avaricious, totally self centered and overall, just a scummy kind of guy.

Guess which party he represents?
SYNRON
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2008 08:38 pm
@JTT,
Certainly,JTT, but there is one problem with your entry.Just a little one. You can't document your charges with evidence. I can and did. I referenced the National Journal. Would you like more evidence and or documentation?

The Savior, Barack, will not only save our country but he will save the world.

In May 2008, Obama steered his Global Poverty Act, known as S. 2433 through the Senate. Obama said of the bill-this bill "requires the president to develop and implement a comprehensive policy to cut extreme global poverty IN HALF BY 2015 through aid, trade debt relief, and coordination with the international community, businesses and NGO's.

Isn't that nice? He will take Billions from the hard pressed taxpayer to take care of the slugs in Africa.

NOW, I gave hard evidence. Quotes about real organizations and real Senate bills. I proved my case.

So, I challenge you to prove anyone of your blurbs!
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2008 08:40 pm
@SYNRON,
Quote:
You can't document your charges with evidence. I can.


Knock yourself out.
SYNRON
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2008 08:57 pm
@JTT,
Are all liberals as spineless as you are, JTT? I'll take your response as a victory, but I am sure you know, conservatives are never supposed to win since people like Cyclops, Ocome Bill and Nimh are so much more intelligent.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2008 08:59 pm
@SYNRON,
Are all conservatives as stupid as you, Enron? You stated, "You can't document your charges with evidence. I can."

Be my guest.
SYNRON
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2008 09:15 pm
@JTT,
Refer to the National Journal and Senate Bill 2433!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 06:43 am
@FreeDuck,
You know, I think you're right.

When Congress voted on increased regulation of Fannie and Freddie, McCain voted yay, Dodd voted nay and Obama wasn't present.

So the lesson is Obama may not have done anything for us during his term, but he hasn't done anything against us?

OK - McCain should confront him on having ducked the vote his fellow Democrats defeated.

Just smart politics though, right?

He also hapens to be the third largest reciepient of Fannie & Freddie contributions - behind Kerry and Dodd (no conflict there).
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 06:46 am
@cicerone imposter,
You're trying to equate this with Obama's ties to Fannie & Freddie?

Talk about a tactic of distraction.
0 Replies
 
Woiyo9
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 07:08 am
@cicerone imposter,
Now we learn
that Obama was the third highest recipient of campaign contributions
from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that have just been bailed out
by the government. Here are the top recipients of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, 1989-2008:

Name
Office
Party/State
Total

1. Dodd, Christopher J
S
D-CT
$133,900

2. Kerry, John
S
D-MA
$111,000

3. Obama, Barack
S
D-IL
$105,849

4. Clinton, Hillary
S
D-NY
$75,550
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 07:24 am
@Woiyo9,
I wonder who was the largest recipient of campaign contributions by Fannie and Freddie lobbyists....

Woiyo9
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 07:46 am
@parados,
Both have dirt on their hands.


"At least 20 McCain fundraisers have lobbied on behalf of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, netting at least $12.3 million in fees over the past nine years.

Political insiders Arthur B. Culvahouse Jr., picked by McCain to vet his vice presidential nominees, and Jim Johnson, picked by Obama to perform the same function, once worked for the mortgage giants.

And for years, Rick Davis served as president of an advocacy group led by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that defended the two companies against increased regulation.

So far this election cycle, Freddie Mac’s political action committee and employees have contributed $555,567 to Senate and House candidates, and Fannie Mae’s PAC and employees have given more than $1.1 million, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

In total, the two companies have spent $170 million on lobbying over the past decade, according to the Center, although they have scaled back in recent years. Last year, they paid $14.1 million in lobbying fees, a significant decrease from a high of more than $26 million in 2004. The connections of both campaigns to the well-entrenched mortgage companies highlight the difficulties the candidates face in selling voters on an outsider message.

McCain’s campaign denied that its political connections have affected his view on the issue.

“I have written every word that has to do with Fannie and Freddie in this campaign, and I don’t know who the people are that are linked to the companies,” said McCain’s economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin.

“Sen. McCain has favored GSE reform in the past and continues to favor GSE reform,” Holtz-Eakin said. “That’s unchanged.”

McCain has called the government’s weekend intervention in the struggling companies “correct,” saying he hoped that the action would “preserve the ability of Americans to obtain loans in order to buy a home and be able to afford mortgage payments they’re having to make.”

A spokesman for the Obama campaign declined to comment, noting only that former Fannie Mae CEO Jim Johnson stepped down from his campaign post in June. His resignation came in the wake of charges that he collected more then $7 million in home loans at special, below-average rates.

On Sunday, Obama shied away from commenting on the specific proposals, but cautioned regulators to give top priority to the interests of homeowners.

“That should be our No. 1 priority, not just shareholders, investors or CEOs of companies,” he said.

Fannie and Freddie own or guarantee almost half of the country’s $12 trillion in mortgage debt. Over the past few months, their shares of the housing market have grown as private companies curtailed their mortgage lending in the wake of massive subprime-related losses.

Critics have long argued that both Fannie and Freddie operated with too small a capital cushion to adequately offset financial risk. But the mortgage giants have consistently beaten back congressional efforts to increase oversight, even after a major accounting scandal in 2003 resulted in a $400 million fine for Fannie.

Fannie’s government relations operations dramatically expanded in the mid-1990s, when then-CEO Johnson recruited Washington A-listers Robert Zoellick, who served in the Reagan and Bush administrations; Lawrence M. Small, former secretary of the Smithsonian Institution; and William M. Daley, commerce secretary in the Clinton administration.

Johnson spearheaded an aggressive campaign to create a local grass-roots network of company advocates. Under his leadership, Fannie opened more than 50 partnership offices in cities and rural communities. At the same time, the Fannie Mae Foundation, a private nonprofit financed by the mortgage giant, contributed generously to local charities, arts institutions and housing organizations, giving Fannie influence in lawmakers’ home districts.

Both Fannie and Freddie made large and visible commitments to low and moderate-income housing, quieting criticism from advocacy groups. With the companies in trouble, their political ties are under new scrutiny.

Johnson headed Fannie Mae from 1991 to 1998, leaving with a $21 million payout. Even after he left, Fannie continued to pay him an annual fee of at least $300,000 a year for consulting services and a $71,000 monthly pension, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

From 2001 to 2005, Fannie also paid for Johnson’s support staff, communications services and provided him a car and driver.

McCain tapped Culvahouse, the former Reagan administration official, to head his search for a running mate.

Currently a partner at O’Melveny & Myers, Culvahouse lobbied on behalf of Fannie Mae in 1999, 2003 and 2004, according to Senate records.

The campaign connections to the two mortgage companies go far beyond vice presidential vetters.

McCain campaign manager Davis headed the Homeownership Alliance, a lobbying association that included Fannie, Freddie, nonprofit groups, real estate agents, homebuilders and consumer advocates. The group’s stated goal was to increase affordable housing. But it also worked to oppose congressional efforts to tighten controls on Fannie and Freddie.

In July 2003, Davis wrote to the American Banker, taking issue with an opinion piece by Leslie Paige of Citizens Against Government Waste, arguing that Fannie and Freddie should operate with greater transparency.

“Several of Ms. Paige’s assertions bear correction,” Davis wrote, defending Fannie and Freddie on behalf of the group. “The GSEs are subject to an innovative and stringent risk-based capital stress test " the toughest in the financial services industry.”

Other McCain aides with ties to the two companies include economic adviser Aquiles Suarez, who worked as Fannie’s director of government and industry relations; congressional liaison John Green, who lobbied for Fannie from 2004 to 2007; and finance co-chairman Frederic V. Malek, a former Freddie board member.

Jamie S. Gorelick, deputy attorney general in the Clinton administration and a chief policy adviser to Hillary Rodham Clinton, is rumored to be a possible attorney general in an Obama administration. She was vice chairman of Fannie Mae and sat on its board of directors."

parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 07:57 am
@Woiyo9,
Quote:
McCain’s campaign denied that its political connections have affected his view on the issue.

“I have written every word that has to do with Fannie and Freddie in this campaign, and I don’t know who the people are that are linked to the companies,” said McCain’s economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin.


So the person writing about Fannie and Freddie for the McCain campaign has no idea who in the McCain camp is linked to the companies?

Don't you find that a bit odd Woiyo? It's not like Rick Davis is an anonymous campaign worker.
Woiyo9
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:05 am
@parados,
Yep, sure does sound odd. Yet, that does not wash the dirt from Obama, Dodd, Frank and every other politician who helped create the present so called crisis.

It appears to me however, that only McCain has been man enough to own up to the mistakes made.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:18 am
@Woiyo9,
That must be why McCain is attacking Obama for ties to Freddie and Fannie while ignoring his own ties. He owned up to his mistakes and then rehired them.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:25 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

You know, I think you're right.

When Congress voted on increased regulation of Fannie and Freddie, McCain voted yay, Dodd voted nay and Obama wasn't present.


When did the Senate vote on increasing regulation of Fannie and Freddie?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:30 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:

Now we learn
that Obama was the third highest recipient of campaign contributions
from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that have just been bailed out
by the government. Here are the top recipients of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, 1989-2008:

Name
Office
Party/State
Total

1. Dodd, Christopher J
S
D-CT
$133,900

2. Kerry, John
S
D-MA
$111,000

3. Obama, Barack
S
D-IL
$105,849

4. Clinton, Hillary
S
D-NY
$75,550


You left off Rick Davis; he received over 2 million from Freddie....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:30 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I also hope he will confront Obama with his associations Rev Wright and Bill Ayres.

Your associations tell the world something important about you.
...

I have to laugh whenever an Obama surrogate makes the point that their guy was only 8 when the Weather Underground was setting off bombs.

SO WHAT?

Are they trying to say that Obama didn't know anything about Ayres past when he took up with him?

There was anice article on NPR last night dealing with this. (Likewise there is another article playing down McCain's Keating 5 involvement.)

Quote:
Regardless of his (Ayres) background, it was never a problem for anyone " including Republicans and Chicago's most powerful business leaders " to work with Ayers on Chicago's public schools. In fact, Ayers is widely respected in the field of urban education.

"It was never a concern by any of us in the Chicago school reform movement that he had led a fugitive life years earlier," said former Illinois state Republican Rep. Diana Nelson, who worked with both Obama and Ayers over the years. "It's ridiculous. There is no reason at all to smear Barack Obama with this association. It's nonsensical, and it just makes me crazy. It's so silly."

Nelson says her fellow Republicans "might snort when they hear the name Bill Ayers, because they know he comes from a wealthy family, they know he became a radical activist early in his life ... but beyond just snorting, I don't think anyone gives it another thought."

"I don't remember ever hearing anyone raise concerns or questions or concerns about [Ayers'] background," says Anne Hallett, who has worked closely with Ayers on the Annenberg Challenge grant and with Obama on education and other community and legislative matters. "And that included everybody I was engaged with," including prominent Republicans, and corporate and civic leaders in Chicago, Hallett adds.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:38 am
@FreeDuck,
Obama will be unable to go for McCain's balls... as they have been safely tucked away in george bushs' pocket for quite awhile now.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 09:35 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
I sort of see that too, but he doesn't play the shenanigans of McCain-Palin who are now in desperation mode.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 11:07 am
So back to the original question. Things to watch for tonight:

Initial greeting: McCain was frosty on the handshake for the first debate and even colder on the floor of the Senate for the bailout vote. Things have gotten a lot more testy since then. Can McCain look Obama in the eye, smile and shake or does he take a hit before the first question

McCain talking point: Based on the campaign stops, McCain is going to his Obama hard on "inexperience". We're going to hear a lot about Obama "just hasn't done anything." McCain will discuss any votes he's made to add regulation. Expect some "tax breaks to help the economy." He might call Obama a "liar" on his record. Lots of risk there, but some gain if he makes it stick. Reference to "questionable connections": too much risk. Leave that to others.

Obama talking point: McCain is a deregulator and that's the current issue with the economy. "I have a plan." I expect Obama to roll out a "10 point program" or something that looks like a framework for improving the economy. Don't expect a lot of details. I expect to hear more about "tax cuts for 95% of working families." Reference to Keating 5: Maybe, but I doubt it.
 

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