Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 07:43 pm
@Green Witch,
I guess this is one senario where I do not agree with my signature line Confused
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 07:45 pm
@Green Witch,
You can choose avatar size if you look at your preferences by clicking on your username, Green Witch.


Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 07:46 pm
@Intrepid,
Sometimes what we are is already pretty good.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 07:52 pm
@ossobuco,
The problem was back at the upload site. My image is too rectangular, I had to crop it into a square. Even so, the avatars look tiny to me on this site compared to the old site. I have to click on profiles to see what they are. I recently thought Patiodog had switched to the image of a warthog, it turned out to be a pair of old boots.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:04 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

You can choose avatar size if you look at your preferences by clicking on your username, Green Witch.





They are still not as big as they used to be, even if you select large.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:19 pm
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:
The energy is not the same. Fewer new people, fewer regulars, more drama and more meanness. The site doesn't feel as intelligent or as friendly as it use to be. I feel claustrophobic on occasion, like I can't get away from some people or topics.

I think the shrinking of the avatars has taken away some of the personality of those of us who use them. I miss Kicky's cowboy and Chai's ever changing images. I can't see what half of them are without squinting. I miss clicking onto individual forums like General, Books, or History and skipping the rest.

I first came to this site looking for information about 10th century England, instead I found a group of funny, witty, grown-ups who had formed a tight community in the vastness of the internet. I loved it and I was determined to become a part of it. Many of the greats have died or faded away, but this recent change has been the hardest of all. I have real feelings for many of the regulars here, but I doubt if I stumbled upon A2K today I would stay.


I agree with your post, Green Witch. Somehow we have become more secluded with this new set up. Yes, we have learned to tag (or not), but very few new people make an effort to tag or read other topics. Some have never come back after the initial post, probably couldn't find their topic again.

It's still a good site, and I am here because many a2kers have grown on me, but it's half as much fun and it seems lots of good people have just disappeared or write very little now. It's like having the family station wagon
where everyone fit into and was so much fun driving was replaced with a slick
sports car with tons of gadgets but only a few can drive it well.

Merry Andrew
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:35 pm
@CalamityJane,
Re: your last pragraph, cj: good point. This has become a site that only a dyed-in-the-wool techie could love. It's more sleek and efficient but boring as hell. I left for a short while but came back because there just isn't anything else out there. Boring or not, this is still where all of my on-line friends gather.
0 Replies
 
martybarker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:39 pm
@mushypancakes,
Mushypancakes and flushd are the same person??? Thank you mushypancakes for your kind words in my times of discontent.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  4  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:44 pm
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:

I have to agree with this. The energy is not the same. Fewer new people, fewer regulars, more drama and more meanness.

No offense, but in 2 years on Abuzz and something like 4 years on A2K, I have seen these very complaints come through in little waves at least a dozen times. It's just not anymore like how it used to be, where have all the substantive threads gone, where have all the fun threads gone, everyone's left, there seem to be less good threads, there's so much more meanness, what's up with the trolls. At least a dozen times, with people chiming in and agreeing, yeah you're so right! It was so much better when I first came here!

I've come to thinking that what I'm seeing is not a measure of the site's development, but a measure of people's situation vis-a-vis the site. In the beginning everything is unfamiliar but also exciting. New people are met, new kinds of chat experienced (all the more so because many a2kers had no prior web forum etc experience). Then things become more familiar, less exciting, but you get to have a well-known group of regulars, with whom you feel at ease, whose jokes you get and appreciate, you know who to look up and whom to avoid. It's your place. Then more and more of the people you came here with or got to know when you first came here disappear, peeling off to other places or stations in life as people do. There's a sense of drift, of being left with ever fewer of that trusty band. New posters arrive but you look upon them with more of a jaundiced eye, and witticisms that would have had you laughing out loud earlier now seem like tired echos of those funny people you were first so impressed with. Same with intelligent, elaborate posts, which just seem like rehashes of discussions you already had before, almost word by word, two or four or six years ago. Suddenly you start noticing just how small the group of regulars really is, and how annoying the trolls are. Little annoyances build up.

Pretty much none of which really needs to say anything specific about the actual content on the site - all it needs to be is a web forum with its well-known mechanisms and pros and cons, and users will seem to pretty much invariably go through these stages. And so we sit around every couple of years to reminisce how much better it was or lament what has become of this thing, which once seemed so special or unique.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:48 pm
@nimh,
Humans are myth makers. There will always be stories of how much better it was in the old times. I just take it all in stride, mostly, and things work out.
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 08:55 pm
@edgarblythe,
Things always work out in the end, edgar. I allus figure that if things ain't workin out, then it's not the end yet.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 09:07 pm
@nimh,
Well, I have never been through a change at a2k and I have never complained
about the good old times. My observation here is not that the good old times
were better, I am saying that the old design was more user friendly - perhaps
not challenging enough for computer savvy people, who knows.

I do see that long term posters have disappeared within the last weeks, some
say good bye openly, others just leave. I also see that far less new people
come and ask questions. How long will it take until there are only 20 to 30
people left?
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 09:44 pm
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:

That's not how it works, Intrepid. If you click "thumbs down" on a thread or a post or a poster, it only eliminates the offending cyberbyte (did I just invent a word?) only for you. That thread or post is still visible to everyone else who hasn't down-thumbed it. And, if you have a change of heart, you can always bring it back. This sort of self-editing makes censorship by mods virtually unnecessary. I thumb-down trolls all the time.


Thanks for the clarification. That is really the only way that it should work.

I can now, merrily, (no pun intended Wink ) vote down what I don't want to see without fear of being part of the problem.

Too bad that you didn't get to reply to foxfyre prior to Mame. Crying or Very sad


Why? What did I say that was so offensive?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 10:15 pm
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:

That's not how it works, Intrepid. If you click "thumbs down" on a thread or a post or a poster, it only eliminates the offending cyberbyte (did I just invent a word?) only for you. That thread or post is still visible to everyone else who hasn't down-thumbed it. And, if you have a change of heart, you can always bring it back. This sort of self-editing makes censorship by mods virtually unnecessary. I thumb-down trolls all the time.


Thanks for the clarification. That is really the only way that it should work.

I can now, merrily, (no pun intended Wink ) vote down what I don't want to see without fear of being part of the problem.

Too bad that you didn't get to reply to foxfyre prior to Mame. Crying or Very sad


I do thumbs down threads of no interest--I hate not being able to see what those are later though in case I have a change of heart and want to revisit them later on, but once voted down they become almost impossible to find. And I hate voting them down at all because it does show up as a negative indicating 'no interest' and if many do that, the thread immediately goes to zero and stays there almost certainly making it of little interest to some to even look inside even though it is a perfectly good thread. So I would much prefer a way to be able to move the thread out of my way without attaching any kind of negativity to that.

I'm fairly sure there are many members who start a thread that others automatically thumbs down as soon as they see who started it or thumb down any post that they see by certain members. (I'm probably one that gets voted down a lot.) The way I understand it, that will affect a member's rep points which, I have been told, will be showing up again sometime in the future. And it it is there that I see opportunity for real mischief and suppression of diversity of opinion and points of view.

I could be entirely wrong of course. But I hate having to vote down anything in order to make the board manageable for me.

Yes people who intentionally disrupt threads and troll and spam deserve that. But many do not.
Mame
 
  5  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 10:22 pm
@Foxfyre,
Jesus, what a lot of analyzing and thought is going into this. Mountain out of a molehill!

Simply put, if you don't want to read about politics, vote them down. Who cares about the rep or count or whatever else is going on? I just don't want my screen cluttered up with **** I don't want to see. Nothing against anybody in particular, just topics.

I can't believe the sensitivities on this.

I'm going to vote this topic down - it's getting boring and redundant.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 10:31 pm
@Mame,
Well yes, if you're bored you should vote it down. I am not the least bit sensitive about this, and I suspect very few others expressing a point of view here are sensitive about it either. But people are saying how they feel and what they think. Your reaction to that, while almost certainly unintended, is a bit of the problem. You seem to assume that I (or others) want you to have to deal with our ****. That isn't it at all. It is not hypersensitivity to want to be able to move a thread out of my way or not have to deal with a certain category without implying that it is uninteresting to me or of no value or whatever the intent of the person thumbing it down.

It's far more about creating an environment where people feel welcome and can make a home than the mechanics of it all.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 12:50 pm
I'm not trying to make the old A2K into a myth, but with so many others I have to agree it's not the same.

To be honest, I don't even feel like I exist here anymore.

I've wondered if I'm on everyone's ignore list, or if I'm just not seen as sophisticated enough to bother to respond to.

I don't like all this voting business, ignore buttons, tags, and a general aura of "watch what you say"

Most of us don't like when fights get mean and nasty, but to be honest with you, I appreciate a good argument, and don't mind if it gets a little down and dirty....it always seemed the one's who could take it stuck it out. In fact some of the people I like the most here, mame being one of them, I've had the biggest tiffs with...we're both tough old birds.

Now, I feel like I have to watch everything I say, or they'll be one more person that will put me on their ignore list.

I don't think Craven is using this as his personal playground, I mean, he wants a success. I just don't think it was broke in the first place.

For all the time people were talking about the changes that would be coming, etc. etc.....I always thought, "why?"

Now that the changes have come, I think "why?"

I'm not adverse to change, I don't see how anything new here is an improvement.

I feel like I've lost some good friends, and don't have much to say anymore.

Life is more than politics.
nimh
 
  4  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 01:13 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

I don't like all this voting business, ignore buttons, tags, and a general aura of "watch what you say"

Thats odd. I mean, on the old site you actually had a team of moderators doing the rounds, deleting offensive posts and banning repeat offenders. In the new system they are much more hands-off, focusing on spam and for all the rest relying on us finding our own way of sifting out the drek through the ignore and thumbs down functions. But you feel that its the new site that has more of an aura of "watch what you say"?

chai2 wrote:

Most of us don't like when fights get mean and nasty, but to be honest with you, I appreciate a good argument, and don't mind if it gets a little down and dirty.... [..] Now, I feel like I have to watch everything I say

I asked the above because this take is kind of instructive in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-dont way. Over on the Synron playground thread, people are complaining that this site has become so much more rough since the change and the inroduction of more hands-off moderation. That trolls arent acted against anymore, that rude posts stay up, that emails to the moderators about things they think should be taken down arent acted on anymore. Yet here you are with a very different experience - saying that people arent as up anymore for a good rough&tumble, that everything's become more sensitive and guarded.

I'm not saying that you're wrong or they're right - far from it. I just see it as another manifestation of how these recurring complaints arent necessarily connected on much of a 1:1 basis with actual changes on the site. Just, people eventually get used or even bored with things, things that were once exciting are now less so, posters go through successive stages of posterdom. And things you dont like that you didnt see before are suddenly chafingly noticeable - and for some, thats that the site is too tame, for others, that the site is too rough. And the site owners are damned either way round :-)
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 01:22 pm
@nimh,
You wanna make something of it?

You better watch it or I'm gonna get my ninja stars.
nimh
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 01:34 pm
@chai2,
dont make me throw goulash at you...
0 Replies
 
 

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