4
   

It's time for Democrats to lead

 
 
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 09:51 am
Screw bipartisanship! Bipartisanship is a myth- particularly in an election year. As recent events have show, the only thing bipartisanship is good for is bashing the other party.

The Democrats have the numbers, it is time for them to come up with a bill. The House Republicans are out of touch with the needs of the country and with the desire of middle Americans. You don't need House Republicans, and you are never going to get them to come along without making sure that billionaires no longer have to pay any taxes. We should just leave them behind.

Sure there is political risk for Democrats to be out in front on this one. But who cares? This is not a time for the party to be cautious.

I hope the Democrats, together with Republicans of goodwill ditch the conservatives and come up with a decent plan that both adds liquidity while helping the middle class and protecting taxpayers.

But they aren't going to get anything done without ditching the conservatives.
 
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 09:52 am
@ebrown p,
vote early
vote often
vote kucinich.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 09:58 am
@ebrown p,
All this resulted from Bush's "I'm a uniter, not a divider." Bush also wanted the Iraq war based on "urgency." Now they want $700 billion, because it's urgent, or our economy will crumble.

Some people are waking up, but it's not congress. The public is fed up with them and this administration.

Throw all the bums out!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 09:59 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Screw bipartisanship! Bipartisanship is a myth- particularly in an election year. As recent events have show, the only thing bipartisanship is good for is bashing the other party.

The Democrats have the numbers, it is time for them to come up with a bill. The House Republicans are out of touch with the needs of the country and with the desire of middle Americans. You don't need House Republicans, and you are never going to get them to come along without making sure that billionaires no longer have to pay any taxes. We should just leave them behind.

Sure there is political risk for Democrats to be out in front on this one. But who cares? This is not a time for the party to be cautious.

I hope the Democrats, together with Republicans of goodwill ditch the conservatives and come up with a decent plan that both adds liquidity while helping the middle class and protecting taxpayers.

But they aren't going to get anything done without ditching the conservatives.



Well, they would have to start over from a sales point of view. It's extremely difficult to overcome such a strong initial negative impression on the part of the public. At the end of the day, if the public does not get more strongly behind the bailout, it isn't going to happen.

Going at it alone will also allow the Conservatives to demonize and argue against the Dems the whole time; and they may even filibuster it in the Senate, or Bush could veto it at the end, leaving the Dems with nothing but a huge political liability.

What we DON'T need is rushed legislation. Our financial system is not going to collapse. We need to do something to get us past the election, at which point a more comprehensive bill can be written... the specter of electoral politics will not allow good legislation to come forward at this time.

Cycloptichorn
ebrown p
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 10:14 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Garbage Cyclo!

You are greatly exaggerating the "political liability" of the Democrats while ignoring the substantial weakness in their adversary.

When the Democrats come out strong; offering and championing a decent plan that provides protection and help for the middle class, the Republicans are going to be the ones in a very tough spot.

If they veto or filibuster, the economy gets hung around their collective necks. They won't be stupid enough to suffer that. If this happens, and the economy takes a turn for the worse... I don't think that most Republicans are stupid enough to put themselves in this position.

Most Americans want Congress to do something about the financial crisis. The Democrats can draft a solution that is good for the middle class. When convincing the American people they have the advantage that their plan will be compared to the Paulson plan (and the conservatives idiot idea about giving the obscenely wealthy more tax breaks)...

The Democrats should do the right thing for the American people and then dare Republicans not to come along.


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 10:19 am
@ebrown p,
If the democrats follows the five points offered by Obama, they'll be safe, because it'll protect middle/main street America.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 10:23 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Garbage Cyclo!

You are greatly exaggerating the "political liability" of the Democrats while ignoring the substantial weakness in their adversary.

When the Democrats come out strong; offering and championing a decent plan that provides protection and help for the middle class, the Republicans are going to be the ones in a very tough spot.

If they veto or filibuster, the economy gets hung around their collective necks. They won't be stupid enough to suffer that. If this happens, and the economy takes a turn for the worse... I don't think that most Republicans are stupid enough to put themselves in this position.

Most Americans want Congress to do something about the financial crisis. The Democrats can draft a solution that is good for the middle class. When convincing the American people they have the advantage that their plan will be compared to the Paulson plan (and the conservatives idiot idea about giving the obscenely wealthy more tax breaks)...

The Democrats should do the right thing for the American people and then dare Republicans not to come along.



I understand this. But it's a tough sell at this point. Paulson and Bush's idiotic plan with no oversight really got people's hackles up about things, and it's going to be quite difficult to overcome that initial distaste. I've done sales for a long time and this is a well-understood problem; public opinion is reinforcing, and it takes a big effort - and quality salespeople - to overcome initial negative reactions towards a product, regardless of whether or not it is ultimately necessary for the consumer to adapt.

The current Windows Vista problem is a good example of this. MSft is having a devil of a time overcoming initial negative reaction; and when people are actually shown vista, but not told that that's what they are using, they universally like it. The same thing goes here. We would have to start off by re-branding it; whoever decided to call it a 'bailout' in the first place is a moron. 'Rescue plan' would be better, or 'government equity for cash swap' or something.

And this ALL will be INFINITELY easier to accomplish after the election! Our society and financial system are not going to collapse between now and next month. There's no evidence showing that they will. We should wait until the political game is through, and then move on to new business.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 11:32 am
Get Pelosi out of there and put in a leader. Then leadership seems more feasible.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 11:33 am
@edgarblythe,
amen.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 11:46 am
@ebrown p,
Seems to me Pelosi has already led them over a cliff, including a few Repugs who followed her like sheeple.

Throw them all out. Screw Kucinich. Palin/Nugent 2012.
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 06:07 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

vote early
vote often
vote kucinich.

vote early
vote often
vote kucinich
Oh if only I could!
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 06:43 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Screw bipartisanship!...

That's clear enough.

ebrown p wrote:
You don't need House Republicans, and you are never going to get them to come along without making sure that billionaires no longer have to pay any taxes.

I spoke to a conservative, Republican friend at work today, and we both agreed that the speculators responsible for this mess shouldn't be shielded from the consequences of their reckless actions. He thought that we should do nothing and just let the responsible lenders and speculators face the consequences of their actions. I agreed, but thought that something ought to be done to prevent the crisis from rippling through the economy to the rest of us.

Really, you're living in some kind of fantasy world, in which the people in the other party are all monsters who want the rich to enslave the poor. Being divisive in a crisis isn't a very good idea.
kuvasz
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 07:00 pm
@Brandon9000,
BRANDON SAID
Quote:
I spoke to a conservative, Republican friend at work today, and we both agreed that the speculators responsible for this mess shouldn't be shielded from the consequences of their reckless actions. He thought that we should do nothing and just let the responsible lenders and speculators face the consequences of their actions. I agreed, but thought that something ought to be done to prevent the crisis from rippling through the economy to the rest of us.

Really, you're living in some kind of fantasy world, in which the people in the other party are all monsters who want the rich to enslave the poor. Being divisive in a crisis isn't a very good idea.


This coming from the side that called their political opponents traitors for arguing (correctly) that the US invasion of iraq would be a bad idea, all the while conservative pundits wrote about killing or imprisoning their opponents in re-education camps.

Without a peep from the majority of conservatives.

So here's your plea for bipartisanship back at you, now shove it up your ******* ass. Your ilk started this ****, not us, now you're going to pay for it. You reap what you sow.

So **** off, you ignorant pig.
ebrown p
 
  4  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 08:03 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon,

If it is me who is living in a fantasy world... why don't you give me an example of a crisis that was resolved in a "bipartisan" way without rolling over the concerns of one of the parties involved.

The conservatives (represented by the Republicans) have always understood this (and you will note I am saying something nice about them)-- that bipartisanship is a scam to force your adversaries to accept your views.

It is time for the Democrats, now that their power is increasing, to step up and win for us.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 08:23 pm
@ebrown p,
How can it be "bi-partisan" when the leadership, their specific names are Bush and McCain, can't get their own party to follow their lead. That's "real" leadership in the 2008 election. Don't forget, Obama doesn't have the "experience," but seems to be winning more voters to his side.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 09:35 pm
@kuvasz,
kuvasz wrote:

BRANDON SAID
Quote:
I spoke to a conservative, Republican friend at work today, and we both agreed that the speculators responsible for this mess shouldn't be shielded from the consequences of their reckless actions. He thought that we should do nothing and just let the responsible lenders and speculators face the consequences of their actions. I agreed, but thought that something ought to be done to prevent the crisis from rippling through the economy to the rest of us.

Really, you're living in some kind of fantasy world, in which the people in the other party are all monsters who want the rich to enslave the poor. Being divisive in a crisis isn't a very good idea.


This coming from the side that called their political opponents traitors for arguing (correctly) that the US invasion of iraq would be a bad idea, all the while conservative pundits wrote about killing or imprisoning their opponents in re-education camps.

Without a peep from the majority of conservatives.

So here's your plea for bipartisanship back at you, now shove it up your ******* ass. Your ilk started this ****, not us, now you're going to pay for it. You reap what you sow.

So **** off, you ignorant pig.

Do I even have to say it? What a clear demonstration of the rightness of your position.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 09:38 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Brandon,

If it is me who is living in a fantasy world... why don't you give me an example of a crisis that was resolved in a "bipartisan" way without rolling over the concerns of one of the parties involved.

The conservatives (represented by the Republicans) have always understood this (and you will note I am saying something nice about them)-- that bipartisanship is a scam to force your adversaries to accept your views.

It is time for the Democrats, now that their power is increasing, to step up and win for us.


Your claim that all Republicans are shills for the rich is a bit childish. There are good and bad people on both sides. Probably many Congresspeople on both sides are trying to do the right thing for the people, but differ on the means. Blanket accusations make dialogue more difficult.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 09:39 pm
@Brandon9000,
WRONG AGAIN, DICKHEAD.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 09:40 pm
@kuvasz,
Kuvasz is getting into this bad habit of understating his case. Smile
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2008 09:43 pm
@ebrown p,
Didn't we just see an example of that? Or is Nazi Piglosi supposed to be something other than a demoKKKrat now??
 

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