blueveinedthrobber
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 02:48 pm
@gungasnake,
12 republicans pull out because Pelosi hurt their feelings...pussy pussy pussy pussy pussy
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 02:55 pm
@blueveinedthrobber,
c'mon bvt... now is the time for cool heads to prevail....don't provoke.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 02:55 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

John McCain is toast!

BBB

Oh, of course. Today's vote will certainly kill the McCain candidacy. <-- sarcasm

Even in a national crisis, you continue to display the same "us vs them" attitude which is probably responsible for Congress's general inability to act.
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 03:02 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

John McCain is toast!

BBB

Oh, of course. Today's vote will certainly kill the McCain candidacy. <-- sarcasm

Even in a national crisis, you continue to display the same "us vs them" attitude which is probably responsible for Congress's general inability to act.


Coming from a guy who called Obama 'Osama' the other day? You're pathetic, Brandon.

Cycloptichorn
rosborne979
 
  5  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 03:04 pm
@blueveinedthrobber,
Quote:
12 republicans pull out because Pelosi hurt their feelings...pussy pussy pussy pussy pussy

As much fun as it is to call the republicans pussies, I don't think they really pulled out because they got their feeling hurt. That was just an excuse.

The real reason they didn't vote for the bill is because they are getting flooded with Emails and phone calls from their constituents at a rate of 25:1 which say "NO" to the bailout bill.

Basically, the american people themselves are preventing the bill from passing.

I wonder how many americans understand the underpinnings of the economy well enough to recommend the proper solution? My guess is, not many. And I count myself as one of them (those who don't know enough to make an educated decision). Unfortunately we need to rely on the people we have elected to congress to assess the situation and make the proper educated decision. We're screwed.

cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 03:13 pm
@rosborne979,
I agree with rosborne about the constituents contacting their congress members that showed anger and disgust with congress for even considering this bill; I even wrote to a couple myself - both republican and democrat about the basic weakness of this legislation. Money chasing unknown valued assets is wrong; it's a gamble that the taxpayers end up funding. There's more down-side than up-side, because there's no guarantee this will even help our economy.
Debra Law
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 03:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CI wrote: "There's more down-side than up-side, because there's no guarantee this will even help our economy. "

I agree. It's throwing good money after bad.

But wait . . . McCain has swooped in on his horse, guns blazin' (AGAIN) to "save the day." He just addressed the nation, called on Congress to get back to the drawing board, and asked for bipartisan support. Now, perhaps, those 12 "angry" Republicans will come forward, hat in hand, and the Republican party can give McCain all the credit for making the democratic process work. Country first, indeed. It's partisan manipulation.
0 Replies
 
Lambchop
 
  6  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 03:29 pm
@dyslexia,
I don't know what to think about this. Part of me is disgusted by the thought of bailing out these clowns. But the other part of me doesn't want this country to plunge into a major depression.

Quick! Somebody tell me what to think!
dlowan
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 03:38 pm
@Lambchop,
WTF?

I went to bed last night thinking it was a done deal.

How dumb am I!

To my amateur eyes it looked like a not-so-bad compromise, too.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 03:39 pm
@dlowan,
unfortunately it appears to be politics as usual.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 03:41 pm
@Lambchop,
Lambchop, Your ability to assess the current situation is right on target; it's very complex with no easy answers.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 03:44 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Agree with all. I used to work for a company that in my opinion, had very strong financials. The financial statements were accurate (I did them myself). Still, money was spent and committed on the assumption that receivables were actually receivable. Had those receipts been delayed as little as two weeks, payables and payroll wouldn't have been met on time. That is fragil, and this was a solid company.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 03:48 pm
@Green Witch,
Unfortunately I fear your right, some how more than likely this will end up being the "leftist liberals" fault if we sink into a depression with banks and credit lenders shutting down all over the place.

I am almost tempted to get all my credit cards and go on a spending spree for fear I won't be able to go shopping again any time soon unless I have just enough cash on hand, although if the banks are closed then I doubt employers will be able to pay employees so I doubt I will even cash on hand. I hope this is a case of chicken little. Is it only lending companies and credit that is as risk or the whole US financial system?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 03:51 pm
Does anyone have a link to the vote by individual House member?
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 04:33 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Pretty sure they injected some liquidity today, or took steps to do so:

http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2008/09/fed-to-significantly-expand-capacity-to.html


The central banks already needed to do this at some point with or without the bailout. They did it roughly two weeks ago as well and will probably need to do it again before this is over a few more times (though perhaps not in unison).

Those are the emergency brakes that are being used up, we still need a bill to pass very soon. Those moves are aimed at getting us through the quarter (the next few days with all the end of quarter pressure) without more contagion.

Banks are still not lending to each other, and are taking higher rates from central banks instead of trusting each other and the central bank moves today aren't going to change that very much.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  4  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 04:39 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
Basically, the american people themselves are preventing the bill from passing.


Agreed. The pressure from the public is the underlying problem. But the partisanship is exacerbating it. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans want to be the "owner" of this bill. So they don't have the guts to do what they know is needed.

If people like Pelosi would shut up about the partisanship (disowning the bill publicly, trying to make it a referendum on Bush policies), it would make it require less political capital to vote for. As long as they are stirring the pot it makes it require more political capital to buck the will of the people.
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 04:51 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
Basically, the american people themselves are preventing the bill from passing.


Agreed. The pressure from the public is the underlying problem. But the partisanship is exacerbating it. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans want to be the "owner" of this bill. So they don't have the guts to do what they know is needed.

If people like Pelosi would shut up about the partisanship (disowning the bill publicly, trying to make it a referendum on Bush policies), it would make it require less political capital to vote for. As long as they are stirring the pot it makes it require more political capital to buck the will of the people.


Part of the public distrust stems from the fact that, at the end of the day, we are dealing with the Bush administration, and they are never to be trusted. Section 8 of the original bill was horrible and burned a lot of bridges before the thing could even be considered. The 700 billion dollar number was equally a mistake.

What are the politicians to do? It's the endgame of a two-year political campaign. They don't have the ability to remove partisanship from anything right now.

Cycloptichorn
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 04:51 pm
@Lambchop,
Quote:
I don't know what to think about this. Part of me is disgusted by the thought of bailing out these clowns. But the other part of me doesn't want this country to plunge into a major depression.

Quick! Somebody tell me what to think!

When you get home and the curtains are on fire, it's not the time to try to figure out which kid lit the match. It's time to put the curtains out.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 04:55 pm
this bill failed because the american people have not been sold, and that is how the process is supposed to work.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  4  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 04:58 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
Agreed. The pressure from the public is the underlying problem. But the partisanship is exacerbating it. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans want to be the "owner" of this bill. So they don't have the guts to do what they know is needed.

And I think that is what led to the Bill's failure. I think most member of congress know that they need to pass this thing, but they don't want their constituents to see them doing it because they know it's an ugly (but necessary) solution.

I think what happened is that democrats promised a certain number of votes and republicans promised a certain number of votes, but each side counted on the other to deliver while they each tried to sneak in their own "no" vote so they would look good to their constituents. In the end, too many congressmen tried to "Sneak" in their vote and the Sneaks won the day. I think they were all shocked when the tally was done. It surprised them all.

 

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