26
   

Guys? You're not helping (Palin sexism watch)

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  3  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 06:27 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

kickycan wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Yes, this kind of stuff is disgusting and infuriating with no way to combat it.

It will surely test the lady's mettle though. Anybody who can stand tall and tough against this kind of vile, contemptible, and small minded crap should make us a fine president of strong character and courage some day.


"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno.”

--John McCain, a vile, contemptible and small minded person (according to Foxfyre, at least).


Did McCain say that?

Mind you...it does kind of amuse me to see right wingers outraged by gross sexist attacks on Palin, given what Hillary received....unless they similarly expressed disgust about that.

Did you speak out re that disgusting slime, Fox?


No McCain didn't say that. Nor did I. The only ones I've ever heard repeating that stuff are leftwingers who are presumably quoting some nameless rightwinger or deliberately misquoting somebody.

And yes, I have spoken out against disgusting slime and deliberate lies launched at both Bill and Hillary. I have posted (somewhere) my disgust with the sexist language used in reference to Hillary (and other women) that would never have been used in reference to a man. I'm one who returns the lying e-mails re Hillary or Obama or whomever to sender along with a Snopes reference.

I don't think we do ourselves any favors whatsoever dealing in that kind of stuff. There's plenty of valid criticism without being hateful or making stuff up. I'm only hoping the malicious Left aren't doing themselves any favors either.





dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 06:40 pm
@Foxfyre,
Did we see a huge groundswell from the right when Hillary was being treated as Palin is being treated?
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 06:41 pm
@dlowan,
Hillary was never treated as Palin is being treated.
old europe
 
  3  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 06:44 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
No McCain didn't say that.


It seems he did.

From newsmax.com

newsmax.com wrote:
Most major media outlets have been uninterested in pursuing the subject. Virtually every media outlet ran Sen. Trent Lott's comment at a 100th birthday tribute to Strom Thurmond. As a result of the criticism over his remarks, Lott stepped aside as Senate majority leader.

But only a few news outlets, like the Phoenix New Times in Arizona and the National Journal, that ran an Associated Press story reporting McCain's 1998 joke suggesting that Chelsea Clinton was ugly and Janet Reno and Hillary Clinton were lesbians.

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?" McCain said at a GOP fund-raiser in Washington. "Because Janet Reno is her father."

McCain apologized to the Clintons. But more recently, McCain said on Fox News, "You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who is still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it."

In part because he gives reporters access and charms them with his apparent openness, McCain gets good press.



If that is too partisan a news source, there are plenty others out there.
dlowan
 
  4  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 06:44 pm
@Foxfyre,
Crap.

You just didn't notice it because of your biases.

It had a different tone.....eg Palin is being insulted for being seen as fuckable, while Hillary was insulted for being unfuckable.

Same ******* coin, different side....either way both have been subjected to gross sexist attack.

dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 06:45 pm
@old europe,
If that's true, he just lost all respect from me.
Foxfyre
 
  4  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 06:56 pm
@old europe,
Well I just read several of those sources, and if he actually said it--I sort of doubt he did exactly as written since it didn't make the MSM headlines--it was a stupid, insensitive joke never meant for public consumption. Evenso, if he said it, shame on him for saying it at all. That really doesn't sound like him but I wasn't there.

The same Phoenix Sun News source that originally printed it though, in the same article, said the Clintons readily 'accepted his apology' and called him their 'bud'. Considering Hillary's reaction to MSNBC when they took a swipe at Chealsea, that's a little hard to swallow too. And it says that Janet Reno slapped him with a huge lawsuit that sounds improbable too.

So I dunno. I certainly would not in any way condone or approve of such a joke from anybody though.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 06:59 pm
@Foxfyre,
Shall we all wallow a little more...

Rolling Eyes
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:00 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

Crap.

You just didn't notice it because of your biases.

It had a different tone.....eg Palin is being insulted for being seen as fuckable, while Hillary was insulted for being unfuckable.

Same ******* coin, different side....either way both have been subjected to gross sexist attack.



I'm not saying that Hillary didn't get the crap. I said that she did if you'll look back and see what I wrote. But she was never treated with the complete disrespect and contempt that Palin is being treated. There was some crudity, yes, but not to the degree that we see with Palin. When I say she was never treated as Palin is being treated, I mean in the respect of degree. And yes, I admit to ideological bias, but I would like to believe that it does not affect what I see as fair or unfair or honest or dishonest.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:01 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
Well I just read several of those sources, and if he actually said it--I sort of doubt he did exactly as written since it didn't make the MSM headlines--it was a stupid, insensitive joke never meant for public consumption.


Seems that the kerfuffle over Lott's Thurmond comment got all the headlines at the time. Also, I don't see how McCain making the joke at a Republican fundraiser rather than "in public" makes the situation any better.

And his public apology seems to confirm the fact that he made the joke in the first place.
LionTamerX
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:04 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
Shall we all wallow a little more...
Rolling Eyes


Hey Rock, I got a better ideer. What say you and I go grab a couple of cool ones ?
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:05 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

dlowan wrote:

kickycan wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Yes, this kind of stuff is disgusting and infuriating with no way to combat it.

It will surely test the lady's mettle though. Anybody who can stand tall and tough against this kind of vile, contemptible, and small minded crap should make us a fine president of strong character and courage some day.


"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno.”

--John McCain, a vile, contemptible and small minded person (according to Foxfyre, at least).


Did McCain say that?

Mind you...it does kind of amuse me to see right wingers outraged by gross sexist attacks on Palin, given what Hillary received....unless they similarly expressed disgust about that.

Did you speak out re that disgusting slime, Fox?


No McCain didn't say that. Nor did I. The only ones I've ever heard repeating that stuff are leftwingers who are presumably quoting some nameless rightwinger or deliberately misquoting somebody.

And yes, I have spoken out against disgusting slime and deliberate lies launched at both Bill and Hillary. I have posted (somewhere) my disgust with the sexist language used in reference to Hillary (and other women) that would never have been used in reference to a man. I'm one who returns the lying e-mails re Hillary or Obama or whomever to sender along with a Snopes reference.

I don't think we do ourselves any favors whatsoever dealing in that kind of stuff. There's plenty of valid criticism without being hateful or making stuff up. I'm only hoping the malicious Left aren't doing themselves any favors either.






Why Is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?

Because her father is Janet Reno.

McCain later apologized to White House for the joke (though he forgot to apologize to Janet Reno for calling her either a lesbian, transgendered or a man, depending on how you take the joke) and attributed it to something he heard on Jay Leno. For his part Leno denies every making the joke, even saying that in political humor, tis like the mafia, everything is wide open as long as you don’t touch the families. In an apologetic phone interview afterwards McCain had this to say:

”This is the bad boy,” he said in a phone interview. ”It was stupid and cruel and insensitive. I’ve apologized. I can’t take it back. I could give you a whole bunch of excuses, but there are no excuses. I was wrong, but do you want me crucified? How many days does it need to be a story?”
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:06 pm
@Foxfyre,
Aha.....when your guy does it he's:

a. It was in private

b. He didn't mean it.

c. He was forgiven

d. He misunderestimated it while he was saying it.

e. I never saw her before in my life, I never touched her and anyway she was willing.

f. Duhhhhh, ummmmm, errrrr...

But...you do not react differently depending on whether it comes from your side or the other.

Rolling Eyes

0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:09 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:
It had a different tone.....eg Palin is being insulted for being seen as fuckable, while Hillary was insulted for being unfuckable.

Same ******* coin, different side....either way both have been subjected to gross sexist attack.


It's certainly not a nice thing to say, and has no business in the political arena but I'm not sure why you say it's sexist.

For example, Janet Reno is ugly and while it may not be nice to make jokes about her for that it doesn't make it a sexist thing, just a mean spirited thing. You say you lose all respect for McCain for making a joke like that, and while I don't think a politician should do that kind of thing in public I don't think his motivation for doing so is sexism.

The kind of people I know who like those jokes will also make ugly guy jokes as well. Here's a common one that someone I know (who likes offensive humor) uses a lot: "He's so ugly he couldn't get laid in a whore house with a fistfull of Benjamins!"

I just heard that about a guy the other day. It's not a nice thing to say but it isn't motivated by his gender but by his ugliness.

Janet Reno is really ugly, and while it may be offensive to crack jokes about it I for one find it pretty funny. Will Ferrell used to do a running gig about it by playing her and capitalizing on the "she looks like a man" joke and I didn't think it was sexist, just perhaps offensive.

Reno herself didn't seem to mind too much, as she even showed up herself on SNL and got in on the gag:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c2/Janetrenodanceparty.jpg

Thing is, even if she did mind I would consider the jokes mean, but not necessarily sexist. I for one thought those skits were mildly funny.
Foxfyre
 
  3  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:10 pm
@old europe,
Public apology? I didn't read that it was a public apology. Do you honestly think that if it happened as is portrayed in that article or the Phoenix Sun News, that it would NOT have been on the front page of WAPO, NYTimes and everywhere else? Come on. Don Imus made a joking quip about "Nappy Headed Hos" and was forced out of his job. Trent Lott gave a 90+ year old colleague an innocent compliment and was forced to step down as Senate Majority Leader. Do you honestly think if John McCain had flat out said that re the First Lady and Chelsea Clinton, the mobs wouldn't have been demanding his head on a platter?

Like I say, there's just enough ambiguity there to make me suspicious. If he did say it even as a private joke, he damn well should have apologized to the parents AND Chelsea and should be thoroughly embarassed and ashamed of himself.
dlowan
 
  3  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:14 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I speak of Hillary, not Reno, as it happens.

And if you see the Reno joke as being just about her alleged ugliness then I think you are being quite blind.

Also, my loss of respect for Mc Cain is about him choosing a VP candidate who, when she is attacked for all manner of sexist reasons, foams at the mouth and says the press is too mean to be allowed to actually question his candidate, when he is:

a. Prepared at the same time to make a "joke" like that himself.

b. For political reasons choose a VP candidate who does not have the nous or political ability to be left alone to be questioned by the press at an uncontrolled press conference.


I think Palin's treatment by the gutter press is appalling....but I also think he is using it to avoid having her look like an idiot if she is subjected to proper questioning.

Hillary had similar appalling treatment, but she didn't hide behind it to avoid proper scrutiny.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:15 pm
@dlowan,
It's true, and is one reason I haven't respected him for some time.

Foxfyre, there was really egregious stuff sent Hillary's way. Nimh has highlighted some instances that are in the out-of-the-mainstream zone where there was/ is plenty of horrible Hillary stuff.

Quick search:

http://www.hillarythebitch.com/

Check out their "humor" page:

http://www.hillarythebitch.com/index.php?ind=news&op=news_show_category&idc=4

More:

http://rlv.zazzle.com/hillary_bitch_mousepad-p144113750520003087a3_210.jpg

http://logo.cafepress.com/1/233790.2780241.jpg

http://www.zazzle.com/hillary_sucks_oh_wait_a_minute_that_wasnt_h_shirt-235148551931462785

http://logo.cafepress.com/6/6996454.5589076.jpg

http://logo.cafepress.com/7/6996454.5732827.jpg

Etc. etc., etc.

Back to putting Google safesearch back on... blech.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:15 pm
@LionTamerX,
LTX, that would hafta be light years more interesting than this...

(hell yes)
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:18 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Public apology? I didn't read that it was a public apology. Do you honestly think that if it happened as is portrayed in that article or the Phoenix Sun News, that it would NOT have been on the front page of WAPO, NYTimes and everywhere else?


there was actually an interesting commentary at Salon back in 1998 about why it wasn't fully covered by the MSM. Appears they loved (as they still do) John McCain too much.

I'm surprised you don't recall this incident. You're unfond enough of John McCain that I thought you'd have loved it.

Quote:
The fact that McCain had made the tasteless joke was reported in major newspapers, as was the vain attempt by his press secretary to initially deny what McCain had done. But in several major newspapers, the joke itself was kept a secret. When McCain subsequently apologized to President Clinton, the Washington Post, in its personality section, noted the apology but said the joke "was too vicious to print."

The Los Angeles Times, in its Life & Style section, provided an oblique rendering of the joke that did not fully convey its ugliness. When Maureen Dowd penned a column in the New York Times about the joke, she wrote that McCain "is so revered by the press that his disgusting jape was largely nudged under the rug." But Dowd chose not to relay the joke, either.

The joke did appear in McCain's hometown paper, the Arizona Republic, and the Associated Press did report the joke in full, so everyone in the press had access to McCain's words. But by censoring themselves, the Post, the Times and others helped McCain deflect flak and preserved his status as a Republican presidential contender.


It was covered in Canada. Apparently his status didn't matter so much up here.
Foxfyre
 
  3  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 07:19 pm
@sozobe,
Yes I know Soz. And at least some of you will recall my posts where I objected to the sexist (and mean) stuff too. It isn't that all politicians don't get hit with stupid stuff; they all do. But again it is a matter of degree. Hillary has NEVER had to endure the nonstop, relentless barrage of stupidness that Palin is having to endure.
 

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