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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2009 05:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It is a grave mistake you see ci. to take a definitive position on any matter which is traditionally a subject of dispute. It might be useful in the back seat of a motor to claim that the Pope is an idiot but one shouldn't really get oneself stuck with it. It lacks balance.

Mr Clinton did that with the Glass-Seagall Act I gather. Tradition is not something a wise man sneers at.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 05:34 am
@spendius,
Spendi tries to use history in order to frame his many lame points. The fact that he misunderstands a;lmost anything about US history but attempts to reference the events anyway, is , in my mind,'Breathtakingly Inane"
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 06:06 am
@farmerman,
What actually is breathtakingly inane effemm is you continually stringing together subjective assertions and presumably thinking that we don't know that that is what you are doing. You make no point.

The point you should have answered is that any subject of traditional long term disputation would not be that if both sides didn't have valid arguments and that for either side to dismiss the other with a wave of the hand is stupid.

That was the point I made and you have failed to address it and contented yourself with another meaningless piece of drivel.
Wilso
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 07:35 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

What actually is breathtakingly inane effemm is you continually stringing together subjective assertions and presumably thinking that we don't know that that is what you are doing. You make no point.

The point you should have answered is that any subject of traditional long term disputation would not be that if both sides didn't have valid arguments and that for either side to dismiss the other with a wave of the hand is stupid.

That was the point I made and you have failed to address it and contented yourself with another meaningless piece of drivel.



38,948 posts, and you've never once made a valid point. **** off loser. Everyone is completely fed up with your constant stream of nonsensical drivel.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 08:43 am
BEN STEIN UPDATE
Quote:
Ben Stein speaks at University of the Cumberlands
(By Sean Bailey / Corbin Times Tribune / April 8, 2009)

While Ben Stein was heading through snowy mountains, his sister text messaged him from sunny Italy.

Stein text messaged her back and told her he was thankful to be headed down snowy Interstate 75 to the University of the Cumberlands in Williamsburg.

“...It’s freezing and windy, but there’s a huge fireworks store just off to the right,” Stein said to laughs.

“And I can see an enormous American flag above it. So what I’m going to do as soon as I get to the next McDonald’s, I’m going to get down on my knees and thank God for letting me be in the United States of America one more day.”

Stein, commentator for Fox News, columnist for The New York Times and cult movie star, spoke to students, faculty and alumni at U of C for the 21st Century Leadership event.

The event was part of the Forcht Group of Kentucky’s Center for Excellence in Leadership, whose goal is to “provide programs and activities that enhance the development of leadership, character and good citizenship.”

Stein, who many people know from his part as the economics professor in the 1986 comedy “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off,” and his game show “Win Ben Stein’s Money,” started his speech by saying that he felt places like University of the Cumberlands is where the “real America exists.”

“When I walk around Beverly Hills, when I walk around New York and Washington D.C., I say to my wife, where did the real America go to?” Stein said during his speech, “Here it is at the University of the Cumberlands.”

Stein said the “real America” is strong at U of C because of the University’s faith in the divine and the school’s commitment to leadership.

During his speech, Stein recounted his personal “journey” that took place during the making of the documentary “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed.”

“Expelled” explores the teaching of intelligent design in schools and the stories of teachers “expelled” from academia for teaching intelligent design, or the belief that life was created by a god rather than evolving from lower life forms.

According to several published reports, including one in “Scientific America,” some of the people interviewed in “Expelled” felt they were misled about the nature of the documentary. Other critics have pointed out that Stein misquotes Charles Darwin himself in the documentary.

After the documentary came out, Stein said during his speech, he was confronted with “out of control anger.”

“People in power in the academic world do not like to be questioned. People in power in the journalist’s world do not like to be questioned,” Stein said. “But if they are in power because of a failed theoretical framework, they are really, really sensitive when you come near their vulnerable spots.”

Stein argues that belief in Darwin’s Theory of Evolution has created a society that doesn’t value human life.

“If they (“Darwinists”) and life started when lightning struck a mud puddle, which is what they said, then man has no divine content,” Stein argued. “If there is an intelligent designer, and we call him by the name of God, and if he made us in his image, then each one of us has a bit of the divine in us...”

Stein said that denial of the Divine, which he says is implied in theories of evolution, is the source of moral corruption.

“...If we were just mud, then none of us has any moral content, and if there is no moral duty to one another, and then there are no moral rules,” Stein said.

It is this denial of divinity, Stein says, that resulted in the Nazis coming to power, and the atrocities that resulted from their beliefs in Aryan supremacy.

That same denial led to the current economic crisis, Stein, the son of an economist, said. As a guest on TV programs, Stein tries not to ask how the economic downturn started, but why it happened. Stein believes that the same denial of “divinity” in humans that led to past atrocities led to people harming their fellow man financially.

“This seems to me to be the basis of a lot of the problems we have in this world,” Stein said. “Civilized people realize that others have a spark of the divine. They realize there is a divine being watching over them to be sure they act right to those other people.”

The real leaders for the 21st century, in Stein’s mind, are the men and women in uniform, the police, the firemen and educators " people who serve their fellow citizens.

Stein used his late father-in-law, a man who served in World War II and Vietnam, and his friend, U.S. Army Major Daphne Prewitt, who was in the audience, as examples of people who, in his mind, represent “the real America.”

He closed his speech by saying the people that will lead America in the future are ones willing to lay down their lives for their fellow citizens and recognize the divine in those fellow citizens.

Stein ended, recounting the story of how as a young boy in Washington D.C. he witnessed the inauguration of John F. Kennedy.

He recited the words that have “haunted” him ever since.

He said, “We all ask God to bless this great country, we all ask God to work for this country...” Stein said.

“We ask God to go to work for the people and principals we love, and here on earth, God’s work is our work.”
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 09:14 am
Sprinkling yer rhetoric with lotsa god references is an election strategy. Lets google the University of Cumberland to see if theyre even accredited in anything but Biblical History . Ill bet they dont have a "real Biology" program or an earth science curriculum in good ole CU.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 09:38 am
@wandeljw,
Mr. Stein should pay attention to his Jewish fellow's actions, the most blatantly criminal of the economic orchestrations, Bernie Madoff (and I'm sure not the only one of his faith). A practicing Jew who stole not only from gentiles, but his Jewish friends and some of those who survived the Holocaust. Madoff believes in Yahweh, not Darwin. On Ben's TV shows, he appears to be walking around with a stick up his ass and proselytizing but to who -- Christian financiers and bankers? Yeah, right, the corruption in the banks, hybrids like AIG (which should be broken up and probably will be), Wall Street, et al, are solely people who "believe" in Darwin. Scientists don't "believe" in Darwin and are not likely to be moonlighting as bankers. Scientist are using all the latest technology in biology. anthropological diggings, mathmatics, geology and all the related sciences to prove and elaborate on Darwin's theory. Scientists experiment and test to confirm the science of evolution. Scientists are skeptics, not believers, with scientific theories and so set out to prove them. IDiot Stein is using the same tactic of attacking Darwinism as some sort of religion and people who don't believe in the supernatural or metaphysical including conventional gods are those who steal money from investors with avarice and greed. They're the "Darwin Nazis." He's always prattled on like the true economic Messiah who has an imaginary Ark carried in front of him into the battle to save Ben Stein's money, not to save human lives.

If the teachers knew there was a law or school board requirement that evolution be taught without religious references, they risked being expelled, but I'll wager there's been thousands of science teachers who have mentioned ID and/or Creationism by being asked a question about it, or just feeling it should be interjected into the lesson even if it's not in the textbook, and have not been expelled.

There's no denial in any textbook I've read of a divine creator/designer -- but Stein in his POX news conservative mindset has to use his punditry in a misguided attack on science. If her were really doing a serious study (which he never does) he liable to find that many of the bankers, financiers, financial advisors, regulators, et al, who are helping get the economy back on track do not believe in god or are agnostic.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 02:30 pm
@wandeljw,
I'm sure this was posted regarding Stein's Creationist movie "Expelled!" The person interviewed in the movie, one who was told it was a "documentary," was a teacher who was expelled for not teaching ID in a Texas classroom, Chris Comer. Here's a history of the legal cases:

Ten Major Court Cases about Evolution and Creationism

* February 14th, 2001
* taking action
* activists
* popular
* top resources

(updated 7/31/07)
Download pdf version of this document here!
by Molleen Matsumura & Louise Mead

1. In 1968, in Epperson v. Arkansas, the United States Supreme Court invalidated an Arkansas statute that prohibited the teaching of evolution. The Court held the statute unconstitutional on the grounds that the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not permit a state to require that teaching and learning must be tailored to the principles or prohibitions of any particular religious sect or doctrine. (Epperson v. Arkansas (1968) 393 U.S. 97, 37 U.S. Law Week 4017, 89 S. Ct. 266, 21 L. Ed 228)

2. In 1981, in Segraves v. State of California, the court found that the California State Board of Education's Science Framework, as written and as qualified by its antidogmatism policy, gave sufficient accommodation to the views of Segraves, contrary to his contention that class discussion of evolution prohibited his and his children's free exercise of religion. The anti-dogmatism policy provided that class discussions of origins should emphasize that scientific explanations focus on "how", not "ultimate cause", and that any speculative statements concerning origins, both in texts and in classes, should be presented conditionally, not dogmatically. The court's ruling also directed the Board of Education to disseminate the policy, which in 1989 was expanded to cover all areas of science, not just those concerning evolution. (Segraves v. California (1981) Sacramento Superior Court #278978)

3. In 1982, in McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education, a federal court held that a "balanced treatment" statute violated the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution. The Arkansas statute required public schools to give balanced treatment to "creation-science" and "evolution-science". In a decision that gave a detailed definition of the term "science", the court declared that "creation science" is not in fact a science. The court also found that the statute did not have a secular purpose, noting that the statute used language peculiar to creationist literature. The theory of evolution does not presuppose either the absence or the presence of a creator. (McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education (1982) 529 F. Supp. 1255, 50 U.S. Law Week 2412)

4. In 1987, in Edwards v. Aguillard, the U.S. Supreme Court held unconstitutional Louisiana's "Creationism Act". This statute prohibited the teaching of evolution in public schools, except when it was accompanied by instruction in "creation science". The Court found that, by advancing the religious belief that a supernatural being created humankind, which is embraced by the term creation science, the act impermissibly endorses religion. In addition, the Court found that the provision of a comprehensive science education is undermined when it is forbidden to teach evolution except when creation science is also taught. (Edwards v. Aguillard (1987) 482 U.S. 578)

5. In 1990, in Webster v. New Lenox School District, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals found that a school district may prohibit a teacher from teaching creation science in fulfilling its responsibility to ensure that the First Amendment's establishment clause is not violated and that religious beliefs are not injected into the public school curriculum. The court upheld a district court finding that the school district had not violated Webster's free speech rights when it prohibited him from teaching "creation science", since it is a form of religious advocacy. (Webster v. New Lenox School District #122, 917 F. 2d 1004)

6. In 1994, in Peloza v. Capistrano School District, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a district court finding that a teacher's First Amendment right to free exercise of religion is not violated by a school district's requirement that evolution be taught in biology classes. Rejecting plaintiff Peloza's definition of a "religion" of "evolutionism", the Court found that the district had simply and appropriately required a science teacher to teach a scientific theory in biology class. (John E. Peloza v. Capistrano Unified School District, (1994) 37 F. 3rd 517)

7. In 1997, in Freiler v. Tangipahoa Parish Board of Education, the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana rejected a policy requiring teachers to read aloud a disclaimer whenever they taught about evolution, ostensibly to promote "critical thinking". Noting that the policy singled out the theory of evolution for attention, that the only "concept" from which students were not to be "dissuaded" was "the Biblical concept of Creation", and that students were already encouraged to engage in critical thinking, the Court wrote that, "In mandating this disclaimer, the School Board is endorsing religion by disclaiming the teaching of evolution in such a manner as to convey the message that evolution is a religious viewpoint that runs counter to ... other religious views". Besides addressing disclaimer policies, the decision is noteworthy for recognizing that curriculum proposals for "intelligent design" are equivalent to proposals for teaching "creation science". (Freiler v Tangipahoa Board of Education, No. 94-3577 (E.D. La. Aug. 8, 1997). On August 13, 1999, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed the decision; on June 19, 2000, the Supreme Court declined to hear the School Board's appeal, thus letting the lower court's decision stand.

8. In 2000, Minnesota State District Court Judge Bernard E. Borene dismissed the case of Rodney LeVake v Independent School District 656, et al. (Order Granting Defendants' Motion for Summary Judgment and Memorandum, Court File Nr. CX-99-793, District Court for the Third Judicial District of the State of Minnesota [2000]). High school biology teacher LeVake had argued for his right to teach "evidence both for and against the theory" of evolution. The school district considered the content of what he was teaching and concluded that it did not match the curriculum, which required the teaching of evolution. Given the large amount of case law requiring a teacher to teach the employing district's curriculum, the judge declared that LeVake did not have a free speech right to override the curriculum, nor was the district guilty of religious discrimination.

9. In January 2005, in Selman et al. v. Cobb County School District et al., U.S. District Judge Clarence Cooper ruled that a evolution warning label required in Cobb County textbooks violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. The disclaimer stickers stated, "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered." After the district court's decision, the stickers were removed from Cobb’s textbooks. The school district, however, appealed to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals and in May 2006 the Appeals Court remanded the case to the district court for clarification of the evidentiary record. On December 19, 2006, the lawsuit reached a settlement; the Cobb County School District agreed not to disclaim or denigrate evolution either orally or in written form.

10. On December 20, 2005, in Kitzmiller et al. v. Dover, U.S. District Court Judge John E. Jones III ordered the Dover Area School Board to refrain from maintaining an Intelligent Design Policy in any school within the Dover Area School District. The ID policy included a statement in the science curriculum that "students will be made aware of gaps/problems in Darwin's Theory and other theories of evolution including, but not limited to, intelligent design." Teachers were also required to announce to their biology classes that "Intelligent Design is an explanation of the origin of life that differs from Darwin's view. The reference book Of Pandas and People is available for students to see if they would like to explore this view in an effort to gain an understanding of what Intelligent Design actually involves. As is true with any theory, students are encouraged to keep an open mind". In his 139-page ruling, Judge Jones wrote it was "abundantly clear that the Board's ID Policy violates the Establishment Clause". Furthermore, Judge Jones ruled that "ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents". In reference to whether Intelligent Design is science Judge Jones wrote ID "is not science and cannot be adjudged a valid, accepted scientific theory as it has failed to publish in peer-reviewed journals, engage in research and testing, and gain acceptance in the scientific community". This was the first challenge to the constitutionality of teaching "intelligent design" in the public school science classroom. (Tammy Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District, et al., Case No. 04cv2688)
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 02:36 pm
EXPELLED!

Category: Creationism
Posted on: March 20, 2008 8:26 PM, by PZ Myers

PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris

There is a rich, deep kind of irony that must be shared. I'm blogging this from the Apple store in the Mall of America, because I'm too amused to want to wait until I get back to my hotel room.

I went to attend a screening of the creationist propaganda movie, Expelled, a few minutes ago. Well, I tried … but I was Expelled! It was kind of weird " I was standing in line, hadn't even gotten to the point where I had to sign in and show ID, and a policeman pulled me out of line and told me I could not go in. I asked why, of course, and he said that a producer of the film had specifically instructed him that I was not to be allowed to attend. The officer also told me that if I tried to go in, I would be arrested. I assured him that I wasn't going to cause any trouble.

I went back to my family and talked with them for a while, and then the officer came back with a theater manager, and I was told that not only wasn't I allowed in, but I had to leave the premises immediately. Like right that instant.

I complied.

I'm still laughing though. You don't know how hilarious this is. Not only is it the extreme hypocrisy of being expelled from their Expelled movie, but there's another layer of amusement. Deep, belly laugh funny. Yeah, I'd be rolling around on the floor right now, if I weren't so dang dignified.

You see … well, have you ever heard of a sabot? It's a kind of sleeve or lightweight carrier used to surround a piece of munition fired from a gun. It isn't the actually load intended to strike the target, but may even be discarded as it leaves the barrel.

I'm a kind of sabot right now.

They singled me out and evicted me, but they didn't notice my guest. They let him go in escorted by my wife and daughter. I guess they didn't recognize him. My guest was …

Richard Dawkins.

He's in the theater right now, watching their movie.

Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 03:27 pm
@Lightwizard,
But the laugh is based on an admitted guess. And the guess is based on a kinetic response. I could be no other from Mr Myers's own position. What he has seen in the viewfinder is what he wants to see.

And so there is no silliness I have not said that they did or didn't recognise Mr Dawkins. How would I know. I would have to guess too. But they may well have had nothing personal against Mr Dawkins and their refusal of Mr Myers might have been caused by factors not being mentioned. His past demenours and animosities say.

They certainly would have known that refusing Mr Myers would be quickly publicised. If Mr Dawkins was his guest it is reasonable to assume they were chatting as they waited and that if Mr Myers was under scrutiny his companion would be. And it is likely, I think, that they knew who Mr Dawkins was and were quite prepared to allow him in.

The "few minutes ago" and "in an Apple store" both hint at a rage. An amused person would not have been so eager to go on the airwaves so quickly from the nearest connector. And he does rather overemphasise how amused he was. Four mentions. Like he's gabbling and spitting feathers. I bet he took a long while to get to sleep that night. His indignation fair thrums.

I submit your honours that not only is he seeing what he wants to see but is telling a load of porkies as well. He's so concerned with his dignity that he has shredded it.

I should a bin a dick.

0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 03:45 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

BEN STEIN UPDATE
Quote:
Ben Stein speaks at University of the Cumberlands
(By Sean Bailey / Corbin Times Tribune / April 8, 2009)

Stein argues that belief in Darwin’s Theory of Evolution has created a society that doesn’t value human life.

“If they (“Darwinists”) and life started when lightning struck a mud puddle, which is what they said, then man has no divine content,” Stein argued. “If there is an intelligent designer, and we call him by the name of God, and if he made us in his image, then each one of us has a bit of the divine in us...”

Stein said that denial of the Divine, which he says is implied in theories of evolution, is the source of moral corruption.

“...If we were just mud, then none of us has any moral content, and if there is no moral duty to one another, and then there are no moral rules,” Stein said.

It is this denial of divinity, Stein says, that resulted in the Nazis coming to power, and the atrocities that resulted from their beliefs in Aryan supremacy.

Stein seems to be channeling Gunga on this. That's very sad for Stein.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:20 pm
All of the finer aspirations, all of the grand art and the moral systems - in short, every great achievement of humankind - are as much a result of evolution as are war, cruelty, avarice - what have you. Ghandi, Hitler, Billy Graham, DaVinci, Einstein, Billy Sunday, Shakespeare, Moses, are all a product of evolution. It's a mixed bag and always has been, since long before Darwin was born. The introduction of new knowledge of the scope of evolution can only enrich us. There is evil science, such as building atom bombs, but to me evolution has a more neutral position in the scheme of things.

(Evolution is not the cause of my atheism, either, as I had concluded there could be no God long before my education brought up the topic).
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:55 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Ghandi, Hitler, Billy Graham, DaVinci, Einstein, Billy Sunday, Shakespeare, Moses, are all a product of evolution.


As are Baroness Trumpington, Elsie Banks, Sheila (Scuzzer) Schofield, the frosty-faced check-out girl in Tesco, the original model for Thersites, Secretary of State for Business, Lord Mandelson, Stan Laurel, Sophie Tucker, Charlotte, a barmaid who's surname I do not know, and my goodself.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 09:33 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
Ghandi, Hitler, Billy Graham, DaVinci, Einstein, Billy Sunday, Shakespeare, Moses, are all a product of evolution.


As are Baroness Trumpington, Elsie Banks, Sheila (Scuzzer) Schofield, the frosty-faced check-out girl in Tesco, the original model for Thersites, Secretary of State for Business, Lord Mandelson, Stan Laurel, Sophie Tucker, Charlotte, a barmaid who's surname I do not know, and my goodself.


Well, if you admit that, why the drama?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 09:48 pm
@Lightwizard,
Is this really true, LW? Say it ain't so, please, it just couldn't be. How ******* stupid are these people.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 09:50 pm
@Lightwizard,
How can a producer of anything direct a police officer to prevent anyone from going to a public place to watch a movie that has been offered to the general public.

That's not a policeman, that's a hired thug impersonating a police officer.

How ******* stupid are these people?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2009 05:08 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Well, if you admit that, why the drama?


What drama? How can there be any drama when everything is meaningless?

Darwin himself had quite a fine-tuned morality of the Christian type. In fact Ed, you yourself display an admirable sense of Christian virtue in many respects. You're not at all in the mould of Ghengis Khan or Nero.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2009 05:40 am
Spendi
I subscribe to Jung's ideas that instinct in humans is expressed in the form of myths (as popularized by Phillip Wylie). Since religions love to claim the myths for their own, naturally even an atheist expresses many same ideals as the religion most prevalent in his/her life experiences.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2009 05:42 am
@JTT,
Quote:
How can a producer of anything direct a police officer to prevent anyone from going to a public place to watch a movie that has been offered to the general public.

That's not a policeman, that's a hired thug impersonating a police officer.

How ******* stupid are these people?


That's a fair and honest statement of the correct atheist position. It would not just apply to movies of course. And especially not to just one particular movie singled out for special treatment.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2009 05:55 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Since religions love to claim the myths for their own, naturally even an atheist expresses many same ideals as the religion most prevalent in his/her life experiences.


That's reassuring. Although "many" does imply a choice and thus grants others other choices unless it is asserted that only the chooser's choice is acceptable.

But as long as the prevalent religion conditions the behaviour of atheists I don't suppose their atheism is of much consequence.
0 Replies
 
 

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