Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

One person's reality is not another's. There are too many contradictions in our subjective thinking, and how one lives.

Reality is real. People's intelligent choices are subjective. But subjective choices do change reality. We can either choose to assimilate into reality or destroy it by fighting it.

Quote:

Evolution is a proven theory

Proven theories are called Laws not theories. They have physical proof not circumstantial evidence that is open to various interpretations that can explain the data with multiple logical theories.

Evolution guided by intelligence or random introductions of information are both based on changes in the environment. Survival of the fittest applies in ID theories also. so why do you keep bringing that up?

Its not about the environment, It is about how the right information was introduced at the right time in the right sequence not only to match the environment but introduce paradigm changes in the biological systems that were evolving to much more complex life forms. That happens in the the reproductive system producing the new DNA that causes the paradigm shifts of new organ systems and adaption to environmental changes.

That is strictly an information management discussion.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

Im doing a seminar on intermediate fossils and species. I have one Biblical based IDer in the crowd and the rest if the students are professional core. See what happens .

Fossils are a record of what happened after the information was managed. It does not explain how. Especially when there are gaps in the fossil record that correlate with paradigm changes leading to specification and organ creation.

Are you going to talk about punctuated equilibrium to provide an explanation for those gaps that correlate with paradigm shifts in information in the DNA?

Are planning on being open minded and providing all points of view?

2 Replies

@Setanta,

Quote:

Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem = More things should not be used than are necessary. Things is this case meaning causes.

Really, I would be so mortified to be caught so often just making sh*t up that I would never post here again. No hope of that with you, though.

I let the computer translate. How about communicating in English and not using more languages than should be used.

How did my lack of understanding Latin (and my computers lack of understanding) take away from my argument?

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

Quote:

Fossils are a record of what happened after the information was managed. It does not explain how. Especially when there are gaps in the fossil record that correlate with paradigm changes leading to specification and organ creation.

look up "forensic evidence", many times e can construct the actual events from the drek left behind.

Most sciences involved with field work rely on forensics, especially archaeology (for which you seem to have the most respect)

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

punctuated equilibrium is merely a hypothesis by two guys who have since been corrected with evidence from their own field area. Thy didnt consider stratigraphic hiatuses (called localized parallel unconformities). I apologize for my word salad but thats the rem in ppresent day use.

WHERES ALL THESE PARADIGM SHIFTS??? That phrase has as much respect as "double down". Its hackneyed , and mostly imroperly used (as in your case), And just like "double down", its become a phrase for tv heads.

2 Replies

@brianjakub,

You must be incredibly dense. Roswell has already pointed out to you your error. First, I'll use as many goddamned languages as I want. Second, you attempted to shoehorn your "goddidit" bullsh*t into the discussion by a selective (and false) interpretation of the razor.

Stop playing your bullsh*t games, and stop trying to order us around. You've got zero evidence, and that has not changed since you showed up. You just keep trying to get others to do the work here, and then you sit back and sneer, make up more ****, give orders and speak from an authority you clear do not possess. You're fundamentally dishonest.

You disgust me.

0 Replies

@brianjakub,

brianjakub wrote:

That is strictly an information management discussion.

Bullsh*t--you're lying again.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

Most sciences involved with field work rely on forensic evidence.

. And then they say something or someone did something lonely if they are capable of doing it. To prove that they replicate the capabilities of that something or someone actually doing it. Replicate how the gaps and the corresponding paradigm shifts can be explained by the random introduction of information. (Saying it could have happened without replicating is not the same as replicating) It can be replicated with intelligent introduction. Intelligence cause paradigm shifts every time something like an i phone is invented.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

Quote:

WHERES ALL THESE PARADIGM SHIFTS???

. Paradigm shift is quicker to type than “Everywhere we see a major information change, in multiple embedded systems simultaneously that results in biological evolution.” (Like Single celled to multicelled organisms. Asexuals to sexual reproduction, flight. Sight, sentience, basically where is a huge jump in information change that correlates with a gap in the fossil record. Can I keep using the term to shorten typing time?

2 Replies

@farmerman,

Quote:

statigraphic hiatuses (called localized parallel conformity’s)

And that explains the correlation between the paradigm shifts and the gaps in the fossil record how?

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Is their information in DNA?

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

Don't play your idiot games with me--information management implies an outside agency. You have not and never have presented any evidence fro that.

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

Quote:

Everywhere we see a major information change, in multiple embedded systems simultaneously that results in biological evolution

so you equate structural changes in organisms to "Major inormational changes??? (I assume you are speaking of all kinds of DNA??). You do know that many major changes (like wings v arms or fins, are dealt with but one sequence of genes wheras the length of a hummingbird v a woodpecker tongue is controlled by several. I think many researchers are working out the "Why is one phenotype so simply controlled and one less major phenotype is controlled by so many??) sounds like you vast Intelligence took some comp time off.

WHATBOUT what I said about forensics?? (since you seem to be "preaching about the paucity" of the fossil record as a BJ "FACTOID"
On the contrary, the evidence of most of the above are quite visible in the fossil record and in reconstructive DNA ( by choosing ancestors via comparative genomics) Like the Hyrax being a direct linneage guy to all proboscidians. Or, back to fossils, microraptor and archeopteryx (with clearly symmetrical wing feathers that were not suited for power flying but perhaps gliding from a tree where it used its wing "knuckle" hooks to grasp its way up. Archeo... was quite similar to Caudipteryx and a direct bird ancestor wheras microraptor wasnt but still showed the divergent evolution that was being expressed in several genera.

Then we have recently found new Jurassic early-bird Aurornis xiu (from the laggerstattes of China) This is about a 10 yer old fossil find which hs been published almost meekly in order to make sure it wasnt a fake like the 1980 find of "Sinosornis", which waw clear fake perped by a money hungry fossil preparator and sold to the NY Museum of Nat History(who announced the fake after careful study)..

Then we get a big jump start in the Cretaceous with several primitive bird species beginning to show decidedly asymmetry in wing feathers, like Iberomesornis,Icthyornis, or Vegavis(perhps the first actual web footed ducky).
The Paleogene showed an explosion of bird types including the diornis (giant killer birds) as well as beginnings of finches, buteos, and galiform birds.
Id say that your feeling about the fossil record being birds-of-flight lean , Id hqve to disagree with you based on the available and growing pile of evidence.

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

Quote:

(Like Single celled to multicelled organisms. Asexuals to sexual reproduction, flight. Sight, sentience,

Given that a Billion years had passed before multicelled organisms with bilateral or radial symmetry developed, I guess Id cut your guy some slack, cmon, a BILLION years??? I bet your design guy (who knew he wasnt being watched and critiqued by guys like you), just wanted to **** off a while . HAve a coupla brews, do some doobs, listen to some...Dead

1 Reply

@Setanta,

We all agree that information is being managed. Natural selection is doing that along with “something besides” randomly generated new information maybe?

The “something besides” would be a person. How do you identify people that did something millions and billions of years ago. ?

2 Replies

@brianjakub,

No, we all certainly do not agree with that hilariously inept attempt to bring your imaginary friend into the discussion.

Look up fortuitous, and look up random. I know . . . blasphemy to you.

What a disgusting, dishonest thing you are.

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

biology with a little

Quote:

“something besides

.
That shall be your new research proposal.
Thats ok for a title. Now I suggest you work on the methodology and expected conclusions and what youd do when those conclusions arent met

0 Replies

I like doin resewrch the ID way. Nothin to do, collect your pay. I can do that and I dont need no steenkeng training. Just a Thesaurus rex and a random phrase generator.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

Quote:

Quote:
statigraphic hiatuses (called localized parallel conformity’s)
And that explains the correlation between the paradigm shifts and the gaps in the fossil record how?

Could you explain this?

Quote:

so you equate structural changes in organisms to "Major inormational changes??? (I assume you are speaking of all kinds of DNA??).

Yes. Dna is an information system. Eye sight is a light and focusing system. Wings are a flying system. The skeleton is a system along with muscular system that holds all the other systems together and helps them operate. One change (eye sight for example) requires changes to all the other systems simultaneously and sequentially.

Quote:

WHATBOUT what I said about forensics?? (since you seem to be "preaching about the paucity" of the fossil record as a BJ "FACTOID"
On the contrary, the evidence of most of the above are quite visible in the fossil record and in reconstructive DNA ( by choosing ancestors via comparative genomics) Like the Hyrax being a direct linneage guy to all proboscidians. Or, back to fossils, microraptor and archeopteryx (with clearly symmetrical wing feathers that were not suited for power flying but perhaps gliding from a tree where it used its wing "knuckle" hooks to grasp its way up. Archeo... was quite similar to Caudipteryx and a direct bird ancestor wheras microraptor wasnt but still showed the divergent evolution that was being expressed in several genera.

You are explaining that system has evidence in the fossil record that it works. We already know that we have witnessed finches and selective breeding. One natural the other not but both selective breeding which means no new information was introduced into the system, the information was already there and the system was programmed in advance to change. (That is why the fiches changed back when the pollution disappeared.)

You have a good understanding of how the program works but are greatly overestimating its capabilities by examining the output from the system without coherently explaining or replicating how the system makes it through the paradigm shifts and gaps in the fossil record. You think saying the words might have or could have is equal to did.

If the system is capable of bridging the paradigm shifts and fossil record gaps, you haven't explained how the system did it. But, I will admit you might get there. (but I doubt it for this reason) . We watch systems manage information in similar ways in computer gaming (replicated computer simulated experiment) and they cannot do it without occasional intelligent input of information to evolve a paradigm shift in the game or complete intelligent input to create the system.

Quote:

Then we get a big jump start in the Cretaceous with several primitive bird species beginning to show decidedly asymmetry in wing feathers, like Iberomesornis,Icthyornis, or Vegavis(perhps the first actual web footed ducky).
The Paleogene showed an explosion of bird types including the diornis (giant killer birds) as well as beginnings of finches, buteos, and galiform birds.
Id say that your feeling about the fossil record being birds-of-flight lean , Id hqve to disagree with you based on the available and growing pile of evidence.

This is all a move in the right direction to prove your philosophical view of naturalism. I say go for it.

At the same time lets bring our understanding of information management (we are learning from computer gaming) to see if a designer might have used the same type of algorithms in a living system. But whenever these type of questions are asked naive realism and subjective idealism must be used in conjunction with naturalism. Not religionism.

Would that be legal to discuss in school?

2 Replies

@brianjakub,

yeh, Eldredge andGould missed the fact that thir"gap in the fossil record was because the stratigraphy of the devonian sediments from which they sampled and shoed a "rapid xplosion " of evolution after a long oriod of vry slow change, was, in fact bcause the first layer of sediments with earlier fossils was layed down . The succeeding layers either nver got layed down or were eroded as fast as they were layed down, so the next layers to be seen were much later ediments with evolved brachiopods (they used brachiopods because they are all over in the devonian)

Some grad student from SUNY (I believe) did his MS thesis on correcting the topic .

Much of he "Cambrian explosion may be missing sediments because there are some anomalous areas of dates that dont jibe.

1 Reply

Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know