Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

So now we get to the crux. HALDANES dilemma. The entire concept is based upon that douche bag W Remines innacurate and fraudulent niscquoting and mischaracterization of Haldanes 1957 paper. (MIt must be said thaqt neither Haldane or Remine hqad a good understanding of multiple allele mutations, and the math used by Haldane was overexuberant (as Haldane later stated).

The hell of this is that weve discussed thios very topic and, to the objective readers out ther, The HAldane Dilemma was a cop out that was offered to explain Haldanes multi-generational "fixation" of specific benefuicial genes and the discussion of the evolutionary "cost". SInce weve discussed it before, I merely went to the links that were provided and will now repost them with the caution that "THERE IS NO HALDANES DILEMMA" period.
http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/07/haldanes-nondil.html.


They basically say that Evolution cant occur because our bogus diddling of HAldanes own calcs show it to be so.((((YAWN)))))

Cmon gunga, something new. How about second law of thermo ?

ACtually the concepts of using HAldanes expansion as "proof" for Remine, is idiotic and is a cheap Creationist ploy that is only used to try to pull wool over peoples eyes.

Modern genetics discounts the underlying calcs (both Haldane and Remine) are incorrect. (HAldane, at least came up and retracted the basis for his initial expansions in a later paper in 1960

I don't expect em to just quit, but any increase in "non-religious" is a very good thing.

I see many benefits from the decrease in religion in our country, but there will always be that group of extremists who will continue their "war" against equal rights (for gays and lesbians) and the inclusion of ID into our public schools.

I hate playing the credentials game but I earned several advanced degrees in geochemistry ,geology and a terminal degree in economic geology (which is what Ive taught at University and practice today).
Anyone is able to promote the relevance of an electrical engineer as an expert in the geosciences is like me telling you that I can rewire your house. (I probably could but I dont think Itd pass codes because LICENSE requirements of electricians is important). In the geosciencs we have training , experience , as well as licesning and certification.

I really hate paleo, but Im forced to use it in mineral and fuel exploration. Consequently , I am required to keep fairly current in micropaleo and paleostratigraphy and cladistics of invertebrate fossils (several courses , among others that Ive taken and I used to teach).
PS, gunga I use the name "farmerman" cause I think its what I am inside and I do run a small sheep outfit. However, I really dont think that you are a "snake" as your handle seems to suggest. If you confuse individuals "handles" with their real life then weve got, among other things, a Celtic myth figure, a verys sick polar bear, a motorbike exhaust system, a bunch of dog breeds, and a real wizard on board AMONG OTHERS.

There are several others on the boards who are practicing geneticists, two organic chemists, and at least one other geologist that I know of and (although hes not been here for a while) an archeologist.
I dont claim any primacy based solely on credentials because Im required to gather CEU's on an annual basis for my license renewals in several states and in certain countries, but I do claim that a lack of same does dis qualify one to take major scientific (professional) positions on a subject with which one has no familiarity. Like I dont presume to wire your house, well, you get it(I think)

AS far as math and statistical modelling, I take these things apart in court as part of my practice. All Math models are only second best approximations of some part of reality. A model can be a gazillion times off , but if it gives clen, stable answere, we buy em. ( I like that , it means more money for guys like me)

How about we take ALL religion out of public schools, INCLUDING evoloserism?

Christianity can survive perfectly well without government assistance and has done so for the last 40 years or thereabouts; you think the same is true of evolutionism? Or is it more likely that without government support, nobody would know who the hell Chuck Darwin was 40 years from now....

I hate to have to say this but I really am the bees knees and I'm sorry that it is necessary to keep reminding all you thickheads, dimwits and dip-shite of this fact which I wouldn't normally think of mentioning if it wasn't absolutely necessary because it isn't right that that my opinions go unheeded by 85% of Americans except in Vermont where it is only 65%.

Don't worry, the only credential you need to outshine Gunga is that you're not a total whackjob (we'll have to go with our gut on this one)

Of course.

But I look forward to the day when they get about as much attention as do the "flat earthers".

I believe that Obamas stand on restoring fetal stem cell reearch will, of necessity , bring about a natural resurfacing of science . The previous admin had so politicized and aligned the sciences with Evangelical Christianity that it was getting to be a joke.

As the Creationists and IDjits are no longer payed any attention , our kids can see what science is capable of doing and, even though it doesnt have all the answers, its at least the correct path to truth.

Not in our lifetimes, I'm afraid.

Nancy Reagan applauded the Obama decision on fetal stem cell research.

Let's keep the Creationists and IDjits buzy with their petty little potshots at evolution science and, meanwhile, science will go forward without them.

Yeah, those IDjits may put up some speed bumps, but they will fail as the miles stretches too far for them to spend money on useless slow-downs on science.

Let 'em spend money like crazy, take away as much of the religious right's money in donations as possible and lead them into bankruptcy. Their screwball ideas are already bankrupt. New acronym: DIIC (yeah, that's pronounced "dick") Discovery Institute of the Intellectually Challenged.

This is no longer a debate. It's just a bunch of folks sat around reassuring themselves.

I am neither a Creationist nor an IDer. I have no beef with evolution or science.

I disagree with bringing evolution into schools. That's all. And for reasons you searchers after the truth (ahem!) won't even allow to penetrate your bigoted skulls and which you are scared to discuss.

Anybody who had the interest of kids at heart would leave them unthought of. What harm are they taking when unthought of and looking at what life throws at them doesn't really bear thinking about. 20 years of schoolin' and they put you on the day shift. And Mom and Pop blow all their money on self indulgent whims after dealing them such a hand as life is.

You lot only say you care about kids. It's a cheap shot. An udder to milk. You only care about being right. And you're wrong. Kids don't come into your reckoning. They never have. Your own maybe but even then its in the hope they will get a bit of glory for your genes which you couldn't get for yourselves and then you can bask in it.

. We know that, you are a Rennaissance Man (at least thats how far back you appear to stand on things).
Spendi:--Dont trust anything under 800 years

You disagree b.c you don't understand the science, and are mostly into being a contrary old crank.

My guess is you'd be persuaded if we could somehow manage to print the formula and proofs on the bottom of bottles and pint glasses....

Cycloptichorn

I believe he drinks all his suds from a tapping device on a keg. So wed need to devise the formulae to be printed on beer coasters. That way he could collect all of the series

Not at all. The Renaissance was a mere blip on the radar. I trust modern science and not just those bits of it that suit my subjectivities. All of it.

That's your problem in a nutshell. You're snake oil merchants. What you need is to sit around in a quiet room discussing evolution with evolutionists and patting each other on the back for reassurance and blurting out cheap and trite insults at anybody who thinks there is any other sort of science or who seeks to challenge your publicity handouts which you cobble together by copying and pasting from the tripe published to satisfy the market of your ilk.

It never enters your head that an increase in people who are anti-religion might be caused by an increase in the number of people who have broken our Holy religious precepts and are looking for specious justifications in order to feel less ashamed of themselves and that it has nothing to do with anything else.

You make the assumption that these precepts are 'holy', Spendius. There are a lot of evil people in the world who do things in the name of religion and god. You think there'll be more if we stop telling children lies?