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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 03:08 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
"Even though thecontinuity of speciational evolution, it will appear in the scanty fossil record as a saltation and has been described as such. This is a misinterpretation, since every step in speciational evolution is a gradual populational process.
Eldredge and Gould (1972) have called this process "evolution by punctuated equilibria". .. The claim has been made by some authors that the occurence of PE is in conflict with gradual Darwinian evolution. THis is incorrect (GOULD 1977) Even PE, which at first sight, seems to support saltationism and discontinuity, is , in fact, strictly a populational phenomenon, and therefore gradual. PE is in no way in conflict with the conclusions of the evolutionary synthesis E B MAyr (2001) What Evolution IS PErseus, Basic Books Pub, pp (193, 270).


Translation into plain English: Gould and Eldridge et. al. have not proposed any new MECHANISM for evolution and assume it is brought about as per standard theory; but always amongst tiny groups of 'peripheral isolates' and in very short spaces of time so as to never leave evidence.

Again for anybody who might have missed it or arrived late, the basic idea of punctuated equilibria was to try to resolve two problems: the total lack of the intermediate fossils which Darwinism demanded, and the Haldane dilemma, i.e. the impossible time spans which would be involved in trying to pass any new genetic trait through any large herd of animals.

The basic idea is that macroevolutionary change always takes place amongst some tiny group of animals that get walled off, develop some new advantage, and then break through the wall, spread out, and overwhelm the larger herds of pre-existing animals which lack the new and wonderful trait.

What a stupid theory.....
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 06:17 am
YOU are really a dipshit and ineducable gunga. What you said is a LIE and is a function of your inability to understand. THERE IS NO "HALDANE DILEMMA " douche bag, Haldane explained his initial statements himself (and weve spotted you on your inability to absorb knowledge). AND, you are trying to insert your lying sack of **** understandings into what Gould and Eldredge based PE upon. They saw that, in the FOSSIL RECORD , that species went on and on through successive formations (In their minds displaying stasis) and then ould show a leap in morpho evolution. You are trying to insert some piece of **** Creationist bullshit as a reason. You are a hopeless idiot who needs to have his preconcieved worldview in order to maintain his "sanity" . Dont you feel like a jerk for maintaining these stupid POVs for years and years without even learning the truth?

The science of evolutionary synthesis has moved waaaay beyond Gould and Eldredge. You and your idiaot Creationists need to be stuck here because you think it supports your case, when it doesnt.
Ive posted what Eldgrede and MAyr and Gould THEMSELVES said, Im not gonna debate it further cause you have nothing new to add. You merely have the standard mantra of the Creationist asshole believer, in that you

1close youre eyes (lest you read something contrary )

2Also your ears (data abounds , you dont wanna become contaminated)

3And say your hosannas.


WHEN are you gonna acknowledge and admit that Creationist "science" has not been even minimally valid in deciphering any earth or biological process, and no science (presently in discussion) relies upon anything Creationist (except to stand for a really dumb example).

GUNGA SAYS

Quote:
What a stupid theory.....
. Yet it is the only one around with good data in evidence. Does that make you jealous to have to base an entire science system (like Creation) on lies and misrepresentations? You must be so proud, a religious based idea that needs to be loaded with deceit and fraud, your Jesus guy must be proud also.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 06:56 am
Don't hold it in like that General, you'll do yourself an injury. Tell us how you really feel . . .
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 08:21 am
@Setanta,
I was low on coffee at the time and was actually pissed at how stupid this gunga douche bag is.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 09:01 am
Quote:
Oh dear, Oklahoma
(The McGill Tribune, Editorial, March 9, 2009)

We're starting to sound like a broken record. Last Tuesday, the Tribune editorialized about the need to respect freedom of speech on campus after student groups tried to block a speech by Türkkaya Ataöv, a controversial Turkish academic. That same day, two bills were introduced to the Oklahoma state legislature, condemning the University of Oklahoma for teaching evolution and inviting alumnus Richard Dawkins to speak on campus.

Dawkins is one of the world's most prominent evolutionary biologists. He has also drawn attention in recent years for his pronounced atheism, especially after publishing the best-selling The God Delusion. In a state like Oklahoma-where roughly 80 per cent of the population are devout Christians-Dawkins is understandably unpopular.

If nothing else, Todd Thomsen-the author of both resolutions-is a master of irony. Thomsen's first resolution begins by noting that "the University of Oklahoma is a publicly funded institution which should be open to all ideas." Of course, it then proceeds to condemn the invitation given to Dawkins, because he expresses "views that are not shared and are not representative of the thinking of a majority of the citizens of Oklahoma."

This situation would almost be funny, if it wasn't so sad. Thomsen also attacks the university's department of zoology for "framing the Darwinian theory of evolution as doctrinal dogmatism rather than a hypothetical construction within the disciplines of the sciences." Unfortunately, this logic is all too common in the American "Bible Belt." Suffice to say, it's bunk. Evolution by natural selection is the organizing principle of the biological sciences, and calling it a "hypothetical construction" isn't a criticism-science is in the business of creating hypotheses.

Unfortunately, a victory for free speech in the Oklahoma legislature won't mean much. Thomsen's (non-binding) resolutions are almost certainly unconstitutional-they're mainly an effort to score political points with a certain segment of the electorate. But Dawkins should be able to speak at his alma matter, and University of Oklahoma students deserve to have a free and open campus, even if it's in a closed-minded state.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 09:08 am
@wandeljw,





Quote:
Thomsen's (non-binding) resolutions are almost certainly unconstitutional-they're mainly an effort to score political points with a certain segment of the electorate. But Dawkins should be able to speak at his alma matter, and University of Oklahoma students deserve to have a free and open campus, even if it's in a closed-minded state
amazing how the party that preaches full frontal freedoms is the party that wants govt to block unpopular speech. They cant have it both ways
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 09:28 am
@farmerman,
He'll continued to wallow around in his snake dung mound of ignorance and everyone around him as dumb as he is will compliment him on his wonderful tan.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 09:32 am
@wandeljw,
Just another shameless biding for votes. Just tell the perceived majority voter a pack of lies that bolster up their worn-out, erroneous convictions and they'll vote for you.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 10:18 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
YOU are really a dipshit and ineducable gunga. What you said is a LIE and is a function of your inability to understand. THERE IS NO "HALDANE DILEMMA " douche bag,....


http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/articles_debates/haldane_rebuttal.htm

Quote:
Answering Evolutionist Attempts to Dismiss "Haldane's Dilemma"
......


The Haldane dilemma is not complicated. It amounts to higher arithematic and not higher math. Claiming that it doesn't exist or (as in the case of the talk.origins types on wikipedia) that it was founded on one or two simple mistakes or misinterpretations is basically dishonest. That's essentially claiming that the entire Western system of numbers which has been in use since Roman times is not valid.



Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 10:27 am
@farmerman,
Fred Williams credentials:

http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/bio.htm

A fool can lead a fool to water and make him drink.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 10:27 am
@gungasnake,
It never was a "western system of numbers." Math was created by the Arabs.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 10:41 am
@cicerone imposter,
The Mayan system was represented by shells, dots and lines -- he might be thinking of the Western Sally Marconi system of numbers.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 11:29 am
@Lightwizard,
"Darkness wizard":

Quote:

Fred Williams credentials:
http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/bio.htm

A fool can lead a fool to water and make him drink.


Whoa, like, man, that's really heavy. I mean, take a look at just a bit of Williams credentials:

Quote:

In 1983 I received a B.S. in Electrical Engineering from the University of Missouri-Rolla, with emphasis in digital design and a minor in mathematics. I began my career at Cencorp in Boulder, Colorado, where I designed hardware and software for an automated PC board-cutting machine. The machine implemented 6 inter-dependent processors and closed-lock loop servo control. After a year, I left for Engineering Measurements Company in Longmont Colorado, where I was the lead designer of intelligent coordination and configuration software for traffic light controllers (don’t blame me if all lights go green in both directions!).

After a year at EMCO, I moved on to McDATA Corporation in Broomfield, Colorado, where I spent the next 21 and a half years up until McDATA's last day in January 2007. After spending a couple years as a diagnostics engineer, I transferred to the channel extension group where I designed bit-slice software to "spoof" remote, high-speed devices. Upon completion of this project, I became the sole software developer for the ESCON Repeater, a multi-port product that "repeats" ESCON signals over extended distances. I then became the primary software developer of the multi-port Sysplex Timer, a machine commonly configured with an identical peer unit for redundancy, that sends precise timing signals to IBM mainframes at a required accuracy of less than 1us between the peer units. My responsibilities included software management of the phase-lock coordination of 4 oscillators at distances up to 28 Kilometers between the peer units, a proprietary protocol between the peer units requiring optimum information throughput, and timing signal management to the IBM-attached host machines. I subsequently became the lead engineer for the High Availability software of the redundant main processor boards of all our Fibre Channel Director class products. After several years as the project lead for firmware releases of our Fibre Channel Switch and Director products, I spent my last year with McDATA as a Firmware Engineering manager. In 2008 I joined Echostar Corporation and help design software for their set-top boxes.



A similar look at "darkness wizard"s bio page (on a2k) reveals this:

Quote:

Majored in Commercial and Fine Art with English as a Minor in college...
Lived in Hollywood ....
Location: Orange County, California....


Certainly chosing a person to listen to on science topics between the real engineer and the real hippie here isn't difficult...

I mean, some problems aren't that hard to figure out. My suggestion to you, darkness wizard, is the same as I give to Russian immigrants living in the kinds of immigrant communities you get in NY city:

There is no law requiring anybody to live on a reservation. Go out and live in Oklahoma or Texas for a couple of years, get some idea of how normal people live, talk, earn livings etc. etc. You could drive trucks or work in a bar for a year or two.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 11:42 am
gungasnake wrote:
Whoa, like, man, that's really heavy. I mean, take a look at just a bit of Williams credentials:
Quote:
In 1983 I received a B.S. in Electrical Engineering from the University of Missouri-Rolla, with emphasis in digital design and a minor in mathematics. I began my career at Cencorp in Boulder, Colorado, where I designed hardware and software for an automated PC board-cutting machine. The machine implemented 6 inter-dependent processors and closed-lock loop servo control. After a year, I left for Engineering Measurements Company in Longmont Colorado, where I was the lead designer of intelligent coordination and configuration software for traffic light controllers (don’t blame me if all lights go green in both directions!).

After a year at EMCO, I moved on to McDATA Corporation in Broomfield, Colorado, where I spent the next 21 and a half years up until McDATA's last day in January 2007. After spending a couple years as a diagnostics engineer, I transferred to the channel extension group where I designed bit-slice software to "spoof" remote, high-speed devices. Upon completion of this project, I became the sole software developer for the ESCON Repeater, a multi-port product that "repeats" ESCON signals over extended distances. I then became the primary software developer of the multi-port Sysplex Timer, a machine commonly configured with an identical peer unit for redundancy, that sends precise timing signals to IBM mainframes at a required accuracy of less than 1us between the peer units. My responsibilities included software management of the phase-lock coordination of 4 oscillators at distances up to 28 Kilometers between the peer units, a proprietary protocol between the peer units requiring optimum information throughput, and timing signal management to the IBM-attached host machines. I subsequently became the lead engineer for the High Availability software of the redundant main processor boards of all our Fibre Channel Director class products. After several years as the project lead for firmware releases of our Fibre Channel Switch and Director products, I spent my last year with McDATA as a Firmware Engineering manager. In 2008 I joined Echostar Corporation and help design software for their set-top boxes.


How does electrical engineering and software management qualify him as an expert on paleontology or evolutionary biology?
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 11:54 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
How does electrical engineering and software management qualify him as an expert on paleontology or evolutionary biology?


How does being a "farmerman" or a hippie english major living in california qualify anybody as an expert on paleontology?

Again in the case of the Haldane dilemma, all you're talking about is adding and subtracting and I assume my own degrees in math are more than sufficient qualification and I would assume the same for Williams also.

Darkness wizard, hard to tell. I'd have to see him or her or it add a couple of numbers and get right answers before I'd vouch for it.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 12:01 pm
@wandeljw,
The snake loves to slither through mindless blogs where there's plenty of garbage to fill him up. What the snake doesn't know is that despite my major, I took courses in paleontology, archeology, evolution biology, astronomy, physics, and I could go on. Early on I worked with Lockheed on a series of aeronautical and astronautical art for their corporate offices. I built a library of over a hundred books on evolution alone. I consistently visit real science links, not blogs written by nobodies -- anyone can start and blog and fill it up with thought garbage. What are the snake's credentials from a university? I wager they are nothing. Zero.

Math does not provide any of his presumptive conclusions with any credibility.

gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 12:44 pm
@Lightwizard,
Quote:
I built a library of over a hundred books on evolution alone.


That sort of explains it; I mean, imagine owning a hundred books on naziism, communism, thuggism, I-slam, scientology, rastafari, santarea.....
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 12:50 pm
Quote:
Whatever choice, then, or possession of the natural goods---whether bodily goods, wealth, friends or other things---will most produce the contemplation of God, that choice or possession is best; this is the noblest standard, but any that through deficiency or excess hinders one from the contemplation and service of God, is bad.


Aristotle.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 12:51 pm
@gungasnake,
How many books on math do you have? How many Bibles? Where have you used these "math degrees?" Figuring out the tip in restaurants? You likely own over a hundred books on dumbism.

You always manage to go from the ridiculous to the ludicrous.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 01:19 pm
@Lightwizard,
No, the title of gungass's book is "math and the bible for dummies."
0 Replies
 
 

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