Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

@cicerone imposter,

I'm not saying, nor have ever said, that the Bible is the " perfect work of a perfect, all-powerful and loving God" so why are you offering that lot as flaws to me?

You're as bad as fm. You both need the Fundies to rescue your position. What would you do without them seeing as you can't or won't answer grown up questions.

And if you kept up with the discussion instead of asserting that I don't you would know that I have made the same point many times. Twice recently.

You're a law to yourself ci. The assertion is all you have.

I am challenging the teaching of evolution in schools from a social consequences point of view and have been doing for almost ten years on various threads. If you haven't picked up on that yet you must be particularly stubborn.

And arguing with me as if I am a Fundie is dishonest. I have lived a life of pretty serious depravity as a result of being an evolutionist and it will not do as a general thing. Families would return to protecting their women-folk with more strenuous devices than sulking. Or family life would disappear.

The institution of the family is a well known target for real Marxists. And I only argue with them about the logistics of the replacement. Granted the dust has settled they may well be right. The Christian family does have a lot to answer for but is that the cost of freedom? Just as the road deaths are a cost of easy transport.

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@neologist,

You missed the most important statement.

Quote:

(Note: Not every word of God can prove true if God deceives anyone at all; teaching from the Bible cannot be trusted if the scribes falsify the word. In other words, the first reference is mutually exclusive with the other three. Thus, the Bible cannot be the perfect work of a perfect, all-powerful and loving God since one or more of the above references is obviously untrue.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Sorry to have missed including this:

cicerone imposter wrote:

LK 1:26-38 The angel who appears to Mary to foretell the birth of Jesus says that Jesus will be given the throne of David, that he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and that his kingdom will never end. (None of this took place nor can it now be fulfilled.)

Who said it would be immediate? It certainly can be fulfilled.

See Daniel 2:44

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You missed the most important statement.

Quote:
(Note: Not every word of God can prove true if God deceives anyone at all; teaching from the Bible cannot be trusted if the scribes falsify the word. In other words, the first reference is mutually exclusive with the other three. Thus, the Bible cannot be the perfect work of a perfect, all-powerful and loving God since one or more of the above references is obviously untrue.

I find the Bible abundantly clear with reasons for all of Jehovah's actions. You can't seem to wrap your mind around the concept, much less the truth, of the entire world having been completely dominated by Satan since the Edenic rebellion. Most preachers will not tell you this because it loosens their hold on the flock

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@neologist,

Quote:

I find the Bible abundantly clear with reasons for all of Jehovah's actions.

You may be very sincere in saying this but I do have a question for you.

Do you think that there are other people with different beliefs that feel the same way about their bibles?

I have met atheists who are schizophrenic that said when they did not take their medicine they would find the bible to be clear at times too, "in some cases they thought that they were divine or God themselves.

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Do you think that there are other people with different beliefs that feel the same way about their bibles?

Yes. However, I don't think all have actually examined their Bibles.

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@neologist,

Quote:

Yes. However, I don't think all have actually examined their Bibles.

I can agree to a point, Maybe you mean that not all of them have examined their bibles as thorough as you have examined yours but do you think some of them may have?

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
Yes. However, I don't think all have actually examined their Bibles.

I can agree to a point, Maybe you mean that not all of them have examined their bibles as thorough as you have examined yours but do you think some of them may have?

Yes, Though I sure wish some of them would show up here. My posts are generally challenged only by unbelievers.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

Yes, Though I sure wish some of them would show up here. My posts are generally challenged only by unbelievers.

Would you expect it any other way? Maybe I am wrong but if you have a belief in one way or another, why would the average believer need to challenge what they hold as true?

This would go for all ideologies in my opinion. The average person does not have an interest in challenging what he or she believes.

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
Yes, Though I sure wish some of them would show up here. My posts are generally challenged only by unbelievers.

Would you expect it any other way? Maybe I am wrong but if you have a belief in one way or another, why would the average believer need to challenge what they hold as true?

This would go for all ideologies in my opinion. The average person does not have an interest in challenging what he or she believes.

I have more belief in common with the atheist than I have with the nominal christian. This will become evident as you get to know me.

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@spendius,

Quote:

I never said that we shouldn't teach evolution to kids because it was too difficult for them. We shouldn't teach it to kids because it is too easy and they are likely to be tempted to draw facile and destructive epistemological, ethical, political, social and philosophical conclusions from it. As you have done.

Besides that being a damned lie, youve only managed to continue the "class divided" society that typifies UK. If youd only have read Darwin's 4th edition and learnt from his "faint praises" of those gone before him, youd have seen that youre own manners in this matter, while being veddy British, stand to show why it took so long for Darwin to publish, even though the Linnean society, when giving him the ultimate credit for "first dibbies", he was flat scared for what the British clergy were doing to folks like Robert Chambers and Robert Grant,.
You remind me of Richard Owen who, having fought against natural sel;ection for so long(calling it atheistically derived and "devoid of God's obvious hand "), when he discovered it wouldnt go away, he then claimed credit for .

Your opinions of me shall worry me no end as I attempt to sleep each night. I still say you reek of jealousy.

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@spendius,

Quote:

I have seen bullying in a shed full of pigs. The runts are killed by it.

Then you should build stronger sheds and practise better animal care.
I shouldnt have to tell you everything spends

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@spendius,

Quote:

You're as bad as fm. You both need the Fundies to rescue your position. What would you do without them seeing as you can't or won't answer grown up questions.

I stay away from the Biblical "Big Dick" contests. Those of you who wish to go at it ,go at it.

Noone should use the bible for anything scientific and anyone who does, well, explaining wouldnt have any effect anyway, so why bother.

It does show Finn that , even though this thread is evidently in a context of what can be done in US biology and nat sci classes, somehow it always winds up where scripture is actually trotted out and defended.

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What does all this have to do with teaching evolution to kids?

It's only a hot-button issue because of the consequences for economic life and which institution will control it. The sort of arguments being pursued here have been going for hundreds of years and with no end in sight. There is a suspicion that they are focused on precisely to avoid ever having to consider the political reality for fear of where it leads. Like having a seat belt on the roundabout.

Those interested enough to have ambitions in the biological field have the internet to teach them every last thing about evolution. By 16 they will likely be ahead of most teachers.

What do you want to teach the others the subject for? What is your motive?
It's ultra boring once the main point has been made.

All you need do is restrict jobs dependent on government funds to atheists. On the grounds that religious people are stupid and all the rest you have claimed them to be.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

And arguing with me as if I am a Fundie is dishonest. I have lived a life of pretty serious depravity as a result of being an evolutionist and it will not do as a general thing.

Actually youre more like dalehileman, you wish to occupy all sides of an argument on the outside chance that one of your positions may make sense.

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@spendius,

Quote:

And arguing with me as if I am a Fundie is dishonest. I have lived a life of pretty serious depravity as a result of being an evolutionist and it will not do as a general thing.

Actually youre more like dalehileman, you wish to occupy all sides of an argument on the outside chance that one of your positions may make sense.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

And your just switching on your assertion machine for want of something better to do.

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@spendius,

Quote:

It's ultra boring once the main point has been made.

Your ADD kicking in again?

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@farmerman,

Quote:

Your ADD kicking in again?

Would you like to justify that?

You're on the record as admitting being in a muck-sweat over the "monthlies" arriving. So much for your attention. It's at the mercy of your enthusiasms.

Anybody who doesn't use your escapist methods of avoiding applications of attention has ADD I suppose? What's the difference between building a currach out of DIY materials and a model cathedral out of matchsticks? Scientifically?

1 Reply

@spendius,

When you jump from subject to subject with no decent introductions (We humans have to only hold on expecting that soon you would regale us with your fabulous transitional phrases). BUT alas, nosuch . SO, I think his ADD is kicking in again.
Ive been told that ADD can be overcome so you can live a normal contributing life. Youll just haveto dry out.

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