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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 04:46 pm
@Setanta,
What the the hell is "a-thiest" supposed to mean?

Quote:
I believe you're wasting your time, FM. Especially as this member seems enamored of the sound of his or her own voice repeating a mantra of philosophical garba . . . er, jargon. What's more, it doesn't even have the redeeming entertainment value of a Gunga Dim rant.


Can you elaborate?

What do you mean by "wasting your time", or "enamored of the sound of his or her own voice"?

What is this "philosophical garba . . . er, jargon" interpretation, define it?

You cannot negate the truth reliability of my arguementation by reducing this refutation to the individual.

An individual, be it 'zealot', 'psychopath', or 'quirk' cannot interpret the universe illogically, or are you arguing epistemical 'justification'?
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 04:57 pm
@spendius,
Farmerman argued by definition, there is necessary entailment when the antecedent conditions are assumed, however this did not refute my arguement.

To elaborate for farmerman, empirical facts do not speak for themselves, it requires a human to cogent these empirical facts.

Therefore, scientific methodology is of no obligations to be practiced, there is no philosophical certitude, nor scientific arguementation for this, there is only the infinite regress as consequence of the objective moral/aesthetic values appeal under the assumed nomological properties.

Examples:
In social science, if a 'cognitive behavioral therapy' practice has a ninety percent success rate in opposition to an alternative practice that has a fourty percent success rate, does this suggest that the higher success rate ought to be practiced?

In natural science, if the 'attraction' between bodies of mass has been observed for several thousand years by humans (excluding anthropocentric bias in this case), does this suggest that humans ought to assume the consistency of gravitation, yet will the universe 'end', chaotic inflation perhaps, and have you personally observed space, infinitely?

However, moral values may be scientifically investigated by increasing assumptions, such as the operationalisation of 'good' and 'bad', from your interpretation, being 'what should be practiced' and 'what should not be practiced'.

In this case, 'good' may be presupposed as 'human flourishing', which in itself may be in fact variable, hence it is acknoewledged to be circular reasoning.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 05:05 pm
@Anomie,
do you use a phrase generator? Thats what your writing sounds like, its so damn precious. Ive decided that youre not worth my time because you wanna drag something ina way that is slightly out of touch with reality. I dont feel like arguing what science is or is not for I feel that you are either unarmed or just attempting to sound like the product of a Hill School primary Education.



Quote:
however this did not refute my arguement.

You have no "argument". I was trying to educate you of the facts . I assume that you are from an ENglish speaking country that is not the US. Perhaps New Jersey?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 05:08 pm
@Anomie,
Philosophical certitude has little relevance to the methodologies chosen by scientists who study the natural world. Natural scientists are more interested in useful explanations and in solutions to practical problems.
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 05:14 pm
@farmerman,
I am aware of your "arguement".

Scientifically, there is no arguement.

What are we scientifically arguing?

I refuse to argue social/political phenomena, my non cognitive interpretation of philosophy denies this, I already stated that science is 'rational', 'useful', whilst satisfies the required conditions of occhams razor.
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 05:18 pm
@wandeljw,
Are you aware that there are scientists that are intrigued by naturalism and do not wish to solve "practical problems"?

That is reserved for normatives.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 05:19 pm
@Anomie,
The physical sciences may be rational, but the conclusions of the social sciences are not necessarily rational.
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 05:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I am aware of this, hence I distinguish 'social', 'natural' and 'formal' (apriorism).
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 05:43 pm
Today's Daily Telegraph front page lead--

"BRITAIN BEING TAKEN OVER BY 'MILITANT SECULARISTS'.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 05:50 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
However, , should the whole thing come to court, the Fundies had better realize that they better be damned compelling. SOmething that, since Epperson , they havent been able to accomplish. Spendi feels that he could handle the court. Ill give 40 to 1 he gets a contempt citation in the first day.


We can be very compelling fm if we are let off the leash. You've been dealing all these years with poodles.

I could handle the court. You needn't worry about that.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 05:56 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
do you use a phrase generator? Thats what your writing sounds like, its so damn precious. Ive decided that youre not worth my time because you wanna drag something ina way that is slightly out of touch with reality. I dont feel like arguing what science is or is not for I feel that you are either unarmed or just attempting to sound like the product of a Hill School primary Education.


What sort of a weasel worded excuse is that? I understand Anomie easily enough. He's saying you're tweeting on a branch for some more bird seed. And he is quite correct.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 05:59 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Philosophical certitude has little relevance to the methodologies chosen by scientists who study the natural world. Natural scientists are more interested in useful explanations and in solutions to practical problems.


That's right wande. The rumpy-pumpy / property problem. What's in a petri dish has nothing to offer to solve that little problem.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 06:00 pm
@Anomie,
Quote:
whilst satisfies the required conditions of occhams razor

The only thing occams razor is good for is a close shave because science has no need for it. Using occams razor as a some kind of condition to satsify is a waste of time because it only applies comparatively AFTER the theory has been presented and evidenced.

Your use of "normative " is basically a flaw in your logic, there is no such a basis for theoretical or applied science. "Norms" are for math and writing.

Im thinking that we are talking past each other and Im getting kind of tired of this because were going nowhere in the discussion. Whether you were or were NOT aware of the facts as they exist in our country, you keep just ignoring the basis of discussion and go off talking about "norms".

When you wish to discuss the Thread Ill be here . (or you may decide to play with spendi).

Please try to put down your random phrase generator it gets tiresome listening to the same couple of ejacs that are often loosely connected .
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 06:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The physical sciences may be rational, but the conclusions of the social sciences are not necessarily rational.


Who gives a **** about being rational. What works best is what counts. You would all get a ouija board out if it got you a million bucks.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 06:06 pm
@Anomie,
Quote:
does this suggest that humans ought to assume the consistency of gravitation, yet will the universe 'end', chaotic inflation perhaps, and have you personally observed space, infinitely
I was with you pretty well until we were presented with this gem. I have no idea what youre saying. Maybe spendi can help cause he often talks in vast run on disconnected thoughts


Quote:
In social science, if a 'cognitive behavioral therapy' practice has a ninety percent success rate in opposition to an alternative practice that has a fourty percent success rate, does this suggest that the higher success rate ought to be practiced?
I had no idea that the social sciences included treatments for cognitive behavioral disorders. Well, I learned something new
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 06:09 pm
@spendius,
Have you ever tried approaching a female of exaggeratedly the opposite gender rationally?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 06:12 pm
@farmerman,
We live in a vast system of run on disconnected thoughts fm.

Thank goodness.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 06:18 pm
@spendius,
even DNA has a telomere .
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 06:56 pm
@Anomie,
Good question; i've never heard of the word a-thiest, either. Do you just make them up?

Since the moniker is not now being used, i nominate this joker for the name Dyslexia. He/she/it can't spell argument, either.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2012 07:20 pm
@spendius,
You and your buddies at the pub
Quote:
"...live in a vast system of run on disconnected thoughts."
0 Replies
 
 

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