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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jan, 2012 06:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
He better not try it. I am highly regarded in my pub.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jan, 2012 06:12 pm
@spendius,
That's precisely the reason he will try it! You are highly regarded when it comes down to bonking.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jan, 2012 06:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I needed lessons though.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jan, 2012 11:32 pm
@spendius,
I'm sure you have learned well. Laughing
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 07:01 am
Quote:
The evolution of a misguided 'choice'
(Dave Bangert, Lafayette Journal and Courier, January 29, 2012)

In the beginning -- of this year, anyway -- Hoosiers seemed bent on improving their image to the rest of the world, what with the world descending on Indianapolis for the Super Bowl next Sunday.

A few weeks later, we're explaining why Indiana isn't Kansas -- which is pretty hard to do when your state legislature goes Old Testament, trying to sell creation science as a viable option for our public schools.

Last week, the Senate Education Committee voted 8-2 for a bill that says a school board "may require the teaching of various theories concerning the origin of life, including creation science." The bill's sponsor, Sen. Dennis Kruse, R-Auburn, says this is all about choice -- the choice of a school board and the choice of a child to believe or not believe conclusions found in the scientific method.

He's right. This is about choice. Want to make sure the world knows Indiana is choosing to not be ready for a 21st century economy? Pass this bill.

*****************************************************************

"We're not going to just get past this," said John Staver, a Purdue University professor of science education and chemistry. He testified before the Indiana Senate committee last week, arguing against the bill.

He also -- as a Kansas State University professor and member of the writing committee for the Kansas Science Education Standards -- was in the middle of a debate that made Kansas the leading edge of the creation science movement in the past decade.

"This isn't going away," Staver said. "The people behind this are very educated, they're committed, they believe they're right, and they aren't going to compromise.

*******************************************************************

"One senator who voted for the bill in the Indiana Senate committee last week, Luke Kenley of Noblesville, said the move could be a "lawyer's dream," according to an Associated Press account.

"Giving the school board the 'option' may clear a hurdle," said William McLauchlan, a political science professor who specializes in constitutional law at Purdue University. "I suspect those folks ... have tried to cleverly devise a curriculum that looks to be nonreligious. Thus, they hope it will pass any constitutional challenges. But I suspect it will still be challenged."

That $320 million the state discovered hiding in unaudited accounts late last year? It's roughly enough to cover Dover-size lawsuits for each of Indiana's 292 public school districts, if Kruse's bill goes through the full Senate and then the House before the end of the General Assembly session.

Beyond the potential cost, beyond our lawmakers' uncertain grasp of the Constitution and beyond the questionable science, here's my question: If the state is already willing to pay parents to send their kids to church-run schools, where religious tenets can filter through science lessons, why this public school broadside?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 07:10 am
@wandeljw,
well, I never really expected anything less than a pre signatory bullshit session and a cave-in by the proponents and sponsors after the governor vetos the bill (assuming the whole legislature passes it which is a big "if").

Is the gov up for reelection this year? Ive seen this as a big ass backward way of making a governor appear "out of touch with the religious common folk". Thats what they were really doing in Missouri, trying to get Nixon to appear "elitist" by goin agin the "BOBLE"
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 07:16 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
"This isn't going away," Staver said. "The people behind this are very educated, they're committed, they believe they're right, and they aren't going to compromise.


He has that right.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 07:27 am
@spendius,
It will go away when the court decision is in . I uspect that its more the way to get a governor unelected by some grass roots plot to cats suspicion on his religious commitment. STUPID PLOT REALLY.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 07:42 am
@wandeljw,
The Lafayette Journal and Courier is owned by the Gannett Company, Inc. the biggest selling newspaper monster in the USA and which is fully appraised of the benefits of evolutionism to companies such as itself.

Quote:
Want to make sure the world knows Indiana is choosing to not be ready for a 21st century economy?


It is a pity that assertions like that are the best it can do. One might even say that it amounts to an accusation of treason against the bill's sponsors.

How on earth can Indiana choose to "not be ready for a 21st century economy"? What does "being ready" mean? What does "not being ready" mean? How does Indiana avoid being ready for the 21st century economy?

4 more questions to be added to the long and woeful list of unanswered questions on these threads by people who can assert that Indiana won't be ready for the 21st century in order to try to get us all down in the miserable materialist hole they are in. They even have a quaintly artificial concept, Indiana, choosing. Indiana must be a being I suppose. Made up of cells. Or molecules. All enclosed by lines drawn in the dirt in about 1816 when globalisation and toilet rolls hadn't been thought of. Mostly straight lines as befits fully functioning materialists.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 07:54 am
@spendius,
Quote:
How on earth can Indiana choose to "not be ready for a 21st century economy"? What does "being ready" mean? What does "not being ready" mean? How does Indiana avoid being ready for the 21st century economy?
You do understand literary license? As one who is always making believe that neology is a valid art form how can you be so engrossed in such trivia and miss the whole point that the legislature is merely gonna require that some fuckin school district will be required to spend a shitpile of money to get the law overturned because it is clearly UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

How dense must you be to keep strumming the same tune??



Quote:
The Lafayette Journal and Courier is owned by the Gannett Company, Inc. the biggest selling newspaper monster in the USA and which is fully appraised of the benefits of evolutionism to companies such as itself
I understand that this is your standard introduction to one of your rants. IT IS A MEANINGLESS MELANGE OF IRRELEVANCY.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 07:55 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
It will go away when the court decision is in.


We have heard that before fm. I suspect we will hear it again.

Quote:
I suspect that its more the way to get a governor unelected by some grass roots plot to cast suspicion on his religious commitment. STUPID PLOT REALLY.


fm skitters off into the night with a brilliantly original conspiracy theory.

And viewers here should be aware that anything fm hasn't thought of, or read in a book focussed on one aspect of knowledge in a manner he approves of, is, without further debate, STUPID. QED.

Mr Staver said something in wande's Gannettspeak that disagrees with fm's analysis. "This isn't going away," Staver said. "The people behind this are very educated, they're committed, they believe they're right, and they aren't going to compromise."
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 08:03 am
@spendius,
Quote:
fm skitters off into the night with a brilliantly original conspiracy theory
Its what had transpired in Missouri when the same crap was pushed onto gov Nixon just a few weeks ago. Try to follow the news if you wanna make believe that your voice has some meaning here spendi.

Quote:
Gannettspeak that disagrees with fm's analysis. "This isn't going away," Staver said. "The people behind this are very educated, they're committed, they believe they're right, and they aren't going to compromise."
You make believe that you have some skill in reading comprehension yet, in the modern world, you sound as clueless on popular phraseology as does DAVE.
Where it wont go away is in INDIANA, where, if it passes (again a big if). then itll go to court IT WILL GO AWAY, as it has in Pa and everal other states when the court decision that states that ID and Creationism are indeed religiously underpinned and as such, cannot be taught as science in a public science classroom.

I know that you are being pruposely obtuse on this matter so Ill be patiently avuncular.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 08:27 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
IT IS A MEANINGLESS MELANGE OF IRRELEVANCY.


The concentration of supposedly "local" newspaper ownership into a few, somewhat shy, conglomerates is a matter being given much attention by our Leveson enquiry into the state of media.

I don't think that pointing out that local media outlets are owned by almost anonymous, giant corporations is at all irrelevant. The situation in that regard is pretty bad here.

For example, a "local" newspaper with a monopoly in a district, published a very strident editorial severely castigating the government for raising interest rates. The rates were referred to as "crippling". A few days later the Financial Times published a table of winners and losers by the rate rise.

Lo and behold, the district in which this editorial appeared was top of the winners list and the location of the hub of ownership of 80 odd "local" newspapers was top of the losers list.

If we are going to get into weird conspiracy theories then how much is the hub paying you fm for promoting the idea that pointing out these distorting monopoly conditions is a "meaningless melange of irrelevancy": a bald assertion anyway with not a shred of evidence offered to sustain it and for the very good reason that there is no evidence to sustain it and that what evidence does exist points in the opposite direction. That it is highly relevant.

I am quite convinced that if Gannett thought creationism would increase profits it would be into bat for it faster than a rabbit bolts into its burrow on seeing a greyhound.

Don't try making out that Media has a principled stance for ****'s sake. It would be inconsistent with a materialist philosophy. One might make a case for materialism, and its political manifestation, communism, but hardly for incoherent versions. We are back to the Ladies' Man who goes wobbly at the bedroom door. Again.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 08:32 am
@spendius,
Quote:
I am quite convinced that if Gannett thought creationism would increase profits it would be into bat for it faster than a rabbit bolts into its burrow on seeing a greyhound
You dont get it at all do you? The mere mention of Creationsim will increase profits idiot.
1The pro Creationists will feel that they are being included and are being vindicated by legislation

2The anti Creationists are all laughing in their beers as to how stupid the world really is.

Boith sides are represented you dimwit
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 08:32 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
You do understand literary license?


Of course I do. I take advantage of it often enough.

I just don't expect to see it employed in rigorous scientific discourse. It opens the door to literary licence applied to the Bible.

Actually, I don't think it was being employed in wande's quote. I think it was an unconscious error by Workshy out of Numbskull.

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 08:41 am
@spendius,
farmerman said
Quote:
You do understand literary license?

to which spendi said


Quote:
Of course I do. I take advantage of it often enough.

I just don't expect to see it employed in rigorous scientific discourse. It opens the door to literary licence applied to the Bible.

You therefore, believe that you should be the only one who employs literary license herein? How elitist of you. Excuse all of we serfs who will fawn at your every licensed word

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 08:45 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
The anti Creationists are all laughing in their beers as to how stupid the world really is.


Do you mean that anti-Creationists are boozers like me? Think what you have said about boozers fm. You seem to have segments in your mind which can be brought to bear on any subject without any reference to any other segments. Each one doing service for the next expostulation and necessitating a fresh audience on each occasion. A timid and awestruck audience.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 08:46 am
@farmerman,
Im sad that the post wandel made is being side tracked by my responses to the ever narcissitic spendi.
I still say that it may be a political game to help unseta a governor without sopending a dime in campaign funds. (Of course if the Indiana gov isnt up for election then duhh)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 08:50 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
You therefore, believe that you should be the only one who employs literary license herein?


Nothing could be further from my mind. I encourage literary licence but it is out of place in the scientific method which I am not committed to defending as you are.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2012 09:03 am
@farmerman,
Mitch Daniels was elected for a second term in 2008 with 57.8% of the vote. There are political differences in parts of the state as there are in most states.

If he wants to run again he has to sit out the next election. He can only serve 2 in any 3 terms.

It might be to do with Indiana's electoral college votes.

Duhh.
 

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