Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

@spendius,

Quote:

David Cameron has declared that "Britain is a Christian country and we should not be afraid to say so", in a speech to mark the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible.

Cameron told Church of England clergy gathered in Oxford that a return to Christian values could counter the country's "moral collapse" and blamed a "passive tolerance" of immoral behaviour for this summer's riots, Islamic extremism, City excess and Westminster scandals.

His words will delight traditionalists in his party and Christian groups that claim believers are increasingly marginalised .

Cameron said there were three reasons why the King James Bible was as relevant today as any point in its history.

"First, the King James Bible has bequeathed a body of language that permeates every aspect of our culture and heritage. Second, just as our language and culture is steeped in the Bible, so too is our politics.

"Third, we are a Christian country. And we should not be afraid to say so. Let me be clear: I am not in any way saying that to have another faith – or no faith – is somehow wrong.

"I know and fully respect that many people in this country do not have a religion. And I am also incredibly proud that Britain is home to many different faith communities, who do so much to make our country stronger. But what I am saying is that the Bible has helped to give Britain a set of values and morals which make Britain what it is today."

Cameron added that while faith was neither a "necessary nor sufficient condition for morality" it could be a "helpful prod in the right direction".

"Whether you look at the riots last summer, the financial crash and the expenses scandal, or the ongoing terrorist threat from Islamist extremists around the world, one thing is clear: moral neutrality or passive tolerance just isn't going to cut it anymore."

He said people were unwilling to distinguish right from wrong.

"The absence of any real accountability, or moral code, allowed some bankers and politicians to behave with scant regard for the rest of society. And when it comes to fighting violent extremism, the almost fearful passive tolerance of religious extremism that has allowed segregated communities to behave in ways that run completely counter to our values has not contained that extremism but allowed it to grow and prosper."

However emphatic he was about the importance of Christianity to Britain, he was less insistent about its place in his personal life.

As with previous declarations of his belief – once likening it to the patchy reception of a radio station – he told his audience he was a "committed but vaguely practising Church of England Christian" who, while he would stand up for the values and principles" of his faith, was "full of doubts and, like many, constantly grappling with the difficult questions when it comes to some of the big theological issues".

Last month the government announced it was sending a copy of the King James Bible, complete with a foreword from education minister Michael Gove, to every school in the country.

Good old Dave. He's not just a pretty face after all.

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@spendius,

And which, of course, encapsulates my position from the beginning.

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@spendius,

I don't mind.

The words 'primal fear' are not well chosen, I admit. Or I repeat what has been said many times over.
I only try to develop my thoughts at my own pace.

'Lullaberero' ... is it a local word, slang or a neologism? I'm only curious to know.

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@manono,

It's the tune Laurence Sterne chooses to have his character Uncle Toby whistle when pointedly expressing disinterest at something. In Tristram Shandy. A masterpiece.

I may not have the spelling correct.

I meant whistling in the dark. Which I don't mind either so long as it doesn't try to justify itself as wisdom. I think your words "primal fear" were very well chosen.

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@spendius,

Have you wound the clock?

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@izzythepush,

Which is tipping point sexy eh? None of that moaning and groaning and writhing in passionate ecstasy nonsense.

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@spendius,

It is--Pray, my dear, have you not forgot to wind up the clock?

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@spendius,

There was a discussion on radio 4 a couple of months ago about the novel, and it was suggested that it was the most perfect opening of any novel ever. I'm sorry I can't be more specific, I only listen to Radio 4 when I'm driving.

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@spendius,

I looked up a few things. It's 'lillibullero' (more on Wikipedia).

I'm going to order the book. I read 'Supplément au voyage de Bougainville' from Diderot and this man was influenced by Laurence Sterne, it seems. How small the world is! Thank you for the info! I've read small parts of Tristram Shandy. How recognizable. The same goes for Diderot: dialogues between a catholic priest and a Tahiti man (very much on topic).

Indoctrination is part of human society. Every kind of education is a form of indoctrination.

What frightens and worries me is extreme religious indoctrination (ultra catholic, islam fundamentalism) and political indoctrination (f.i. the regime in North Korea).

What they have in common? To separate masses of people from sources of knowledge. Diderot spent time in prison more than once. Nihil novum sub sole. Dissidents evaporate worldwide.

What I don't understand is how the USA proclaiming 'freedom' (and democracy) allows university policies that refuse or even forbid the teaching of evolution. The different theories are indeed not perfect, not complete. Time is relative.
Has it sometime to do with federal jurisdiction and state jurisdiction?
In which American states is the teaching of evolution forbidden in universities?

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@manono,

If it isn't too late mano I recommend the paperback in the World Classics versions from the OUP. It has a fine introduction and notes by Ian Campbell Ross and it can be had for peanuts on ebay or abe books. It's well made too. The notes are very useful. And necessary in 2011.

It will lead you to Rabelais and Cervantes at least.

The argument here is about teaching evolution in schools. I imagine most universities cover the matter for people specialising in biology. But it depends on what is deemed a university.

It sounds like you might be receptive to Thorstein Veblen.

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@spendius,

Dawkins made a right plonker of himself on the News the other night.

He couldn't resist the invitation to respond to the Prime Minister's statement about the "moral collapse". He opined to the effect that if we were going to take our morals from the Bible we would have to stone to death adulterers. So it is obvious who he was appealing to for sympathy. Him being a serial adulterer and all. And he clean forgot that we don't stone to death even the most heinous criminals and adultery is not even a minor offence and rife among university professors.

Your Big Cheese linked the argument directly to sex and indulged in a gross anachronism. And he looked stupid.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Your Big Cheese linked the argument directly to sex and indulged in a gross anachronism. And he looked stupid.

No mean feat when responding to Cameron.

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@izzythepush,

It's a well known fact that Islamic opinion consists of a spectrum. The violent extremists at one end and varying degrees of moderation arriving at a man who goes to Friday Prayers at the Mosque who owns a few garish attractions on Blackpool promenade and in the Pleasure Beach. (Which is a bit short on pleasure these days). Drinks moderately and can cuss like an Irish navvy trying to start a cement mixer on a freezing Monday morning before the sun comes up.

I know the guy and a few of his relations and pals. They won't have evolution. Any of them. They have books proving evolution bullshit entirely to their satisfaction.

And it is the moderates whose hearts and minds all our foreign policy is aimed at placating and attracting. So what do these guys think when they see evolution teaching promoted in our media? It gives the extremists traction with the moderates.

It is of no consequence that they have their heads up their arses. One deals with people in that position as they are not as one might wish them to be. And from their point of view it is us who have our heads up our arses on this matter. They don't do adultery. They see it as corrosive to order. And evolution, strictly interpreted, enjoins adultery. For an intellectual it might even be a duty.

How would their TV stations present Dawkins' performance the other night.

I don't know how much we spend in lives and treasure trying to win the hearts and minds of moderate Islamic opinion but if my experience is anything to go by we might as well have put it on a bonfire if they see evolution being promoted here. It goes to the very roots of their culture. Afghanistan is known as The Light-Garden of the Angel-King.

It goes to the very roots of our culture too. It defines us if we adopt it. Scientifically.

And I'm not saying that it isn't the way forward. People decide that for themselves. It's best they know what they are deciding though.

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@spendius,

Souldn't we leave the teaching of Biology to the scientists, and Divinity to RE teachers? The kids are welcome to call it bullshit afterwards. When I did Biology O level there weren't any questions about evolution anyway.

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@izzythepush,

There were no questions about evolution at my school and look how I turned out.

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@spendius,

Bright-eyed and bushy tailed.

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@izzythepush,

Are you accusing me of a feminine component?

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@spendius,

I'm just commenting on your rude health, for which I am eternally grateful.

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@spendius,

It is too late. I ordered it already in my bookshop. It's going to be an edition from Every Man's Library Classics because they have the book available. That's fine.

Rabelais and Cervantes... I have three books of Dawkins gathering dust. Sigh. Thorstein Veblen on top. Yes, I might me receptive (I googeled him) in a certain way. Thanks!

Teaching evolution in schools. Every time I come here, I read some of the previous postst.

What strikes me is that apparently in the US evolution is taught in biology class, even in secondary schools.
In Belgium we teach evolution in history class first year secondary school (pupils are appr. twelve years old).

In history class we make a difference between prehistory and history. Prehistory is based on the findings of artefacts. History also but also on written sources.
Prehistory teaching contains the whole story of evolution from tiny watercreatures to fish, reptiles and birds, dinosaurs, mammals, Homo this and Homo that. The use of tools, fire, burial of the deceased, presentation of artefarcts explaining the presence of spiritual thinking...

On university level it is different. But everything to do with christianism as creationism and intelligent design belongs to 'theology'. In not catholic universities it belongs probably as a small subject to 'philosophy' . and/or 'history'. Biology is something completely different.
I cannot understand how you can approach biology from a theoligical angle.

We make a difference between exact sciences and humane sciences. There's overlapping but not to the extent that politicians can make use of it. Like f.i. Palin and others did or do. That kind of rethoric would in Belgium only find a mild response from a bunch of old women, nostalgic for pristine youth when catholic nuns told them what to do, what to say, what to think. When life was oh so simple and secure.

I will continue the reading of the previous posts. It's in away an inside look. I wonder how evolution is taught in other countries and nations.

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@manono,

At the end of the day the science should be the same whether or not you believe in evolution or intelliget design. A sequence of chromosomes isn't altered by a particular way of thinking.

Although it has to be said that certain fundamentalists obsession with the literal word of the Bible is absurd.

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