61
   

Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 05:59 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:

@izzythePOOP,
Are you feeling OK Izzy?


He probably feels like ****....
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 06:05 am
@gungasnake,
That's better than looking like ****, smelling like **** and talking ****. You were the one who decided to name himself after ****, a rare moment of honesty. You can get back in the sty now.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 06:52 am
@izzythepush,
I think I would prefer to look like, smell like and talk like **** than feel like it.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 06:55 am
@spendius,
Would you really want to inhabit the hate-filled shitbubble that Gunga calls life?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 08:22 am
@izzythepush,
Whatever floats his boat. But he writes okay. It counts a lot for me.

Language being the gift which sets us apart. And the style of it has improved as we have progressed. A lack of style seems to me to point us backwards. And there's a trend now towards lack of style.

I don't think there's any chance of gunga's style coming out of a hate-filled shitbubble. I can identify styles that come out of those quite quickly. I read 10 lines of the Da Vinci Code. Compare that to the first paragraph's of Rider Haggard's The Ancient Allan.

It's about whether it is better to be alive or dead. And speculates upon why the devout and pious delay their entrance into heavenly bliss by running around to spas and doctors and shrines and reaching for miracle cures and eschewing all the most addictive foods and delaying their kids getting a certain amount of cash.

Once Quatermain and Lady Ragnell have partook of the Taduki fumes in her boudoir it all gets a bit daft but that's how Sir Henry passed his time in his study writing for the young lads of exotic adventures whilst slipping in the odd useful piece of advice now and again which teachers never tell you about.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 09:26 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Sir Henry passed his time in his study writing for the young lads of exotic adventures whilst slipping in the odd useful piece of advice now and again which teachers never tell you about.



What type of advice are you referring to? Do you mean like staying away from nuns exploring their wild side? I guess if you like fiction you might as well go all out!


spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 09:31 am
@reasoning logic,
Not exactly staying away rl. Using some common sense with them morelike.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 09:34 am
@spendius,
btw rl--nuns exploring their wild side don't wear kit like that.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 09:38 am
@spendius,
How would you know?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 09:55 am
@spendius,
I think that our reading of all these articles in periodicals and suchlike about burning issues like this one and the financial crisis and the state of Libya/Iraq/Afghanistan etc etc produces an excessive stimulus in our mental states.

It causes us to fancy we can judge when we really ought to be content to learn. Having judged we then develop a rage for public pronouncement which demands we have instant intelligibility. And the growth of the culture of cities has put an end to gossip and substituted small talk about the matters we have considered in the articles we have read.

What we have is cultural discipline rather than liberated natural energies fed by the universal need for heightened perceptions and pleasureable excitement, which we deny by continually asserting how liberated and how pleasureably excited we are, and promoted, dare I say, with those aspects of the feasts of Bacchus which most readily lend themselves to the task.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2011 11:35 am
NORTH CAROLINA UPDATE
Quote:
Brunswick Schools' Creationism Debate Resurfaces
(By Andrew Dunn, Wilmington StarNews, September 13, 2011)

The debate over teaching creationism in public schools has resurfaced in Brunswick County.

But despite public officials' desire to teach the religion-themed alternative to evolution, the school board's legal team once again determined that it is not possible under the law.

County commissioners Chairman Bill Sue brought the issue back up in April at a meeting between commissioners and school board members. In June, Sue sent a letter to Superintendent Edward Pruden with a potential strategy to get it done: Use a Christian legal defense organization to argue for a curriculum that teaches creationism as an alternative theory to evolution.

Two weeks ago, Sue received a letter back from school board Chairwoman Shirley Babson that said the legal team had checked into it, but it just wasn't going to be possible.

"Courts including the U.S. Supreme Court have consistently and recently held that it is not legal to teach creationism in public schools. And that's our stance," said Jessica Swencki, spokeswoman for the Brunswick County school system. "It obviously is a long-standing debate. It's a highly charged debate. But the courts are unanimously clear."

That answer isn't a cop-out.

"I think everybody on the school board would like to teach creationism," Babson said in an interview. "We think that our nation has gotten so politically correct that there is no freedom of religion in America. They want freedom from religion."

She said that in today's world. it's acceptable to teach about Islam and Buddhism, but when Christianity comes up, people think it's wrong.

The debate is far from new. It most recently reared its head in 2008, when the discussion dominated a school board meeting and a few candidate forums. The result then, too, was the determination that teaching creationism in the schools would be illegal.

It's not likely to go away, either. On Tuesday, Sue said he believes the constitutional separation between church and state has simply been misinterpreted in this case.

"The older I get, the more I realize that we're just here for a short period of time when it comes to eternity," Sue said. "It just concerns me that this nation and a lot of its leaders are bringing us away from God."
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2011 12:18 pm
@wandeljw,
As all art is based upon a similar voluntary suspension of disbelief as religion, and is indeed inextricably bound up in religion, why hasn't the USSC ruled against art in schools and demanded a strict adherence of the school curriculum to rational and logical observations as defined by the NCSE.

The obvious fact that such a scientific approach renders the sylvan, rustic parkland into a killing field, the romantic love scene into a sordid deal between lust on the one hand and the hope for improved spending power on the other, a Rembrandt into some daubings on a taut canvas and Dylan singing Mr Tambourine Man in 1981 just a madman warbling out his fantasies about poetic inspiration, shouldn't bother such rational and logical thinkers as make up the component parts of the USSC who had to be household pets in the first place to get appointed. Not a Casanova or a Valmont in sight.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2011 12:34 pm
@spendius,
"Voluntary suspension of disbelief" is not how courts define religion. Therefore, there is no problem teaching art or music. (The only exception would be teaching Bob Dylan. There is a death penalty for that.)
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2011 06:03 am
@wandeljw,
How the courts define religion belongs on the Legal threads and not on science threads. Science is not circumscribed by decisions of the USSC.

If that was the case it would define "better" in "The better theory is the one that explains more, that explains with greater precision, and that allows us to make better predictions" in a manner which was congruent with the values of the US legal profession.

From a scientific point of view arguments against religion apply equally to arguments against art. Otherwise Stalin's attitude to art is justified.

Every move you guys make is totalitarian in its essence. The USSC has no interest in science. Science is just being used as a wedge for other agendas. It's as obvious as a turd on a freshly laundered white tablecloth. (Hey--that's a neat metaphor).

I bet I could get Barbara Forrest bolting out of the pub after five minutes of a discussion about the applicability of science to social relations. And schools are mainly about social relations. Science in schools is for failed scientists to have a job. And for supporters of it to posture as superior exemplars of the highest forms of humanity. ci. carring over a dunny tin in Tibet with the squits squitting musically sort of thing. And fm such an amateur at scatology.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2011 07:19 am
@spendius,
I was wondering where fm has gone so I checked out his posts and his last one was on Sep 2 and on the What's the Last Thing You Put in Your Mouth thread. He posted " Dramemine" which, according to Wiki " is an over-the-counter drug used to prevent nausea and motion sickness."

I hope he is alright. Maybe he was on a boat.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2011 08:14 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
I bet I could get Barbara Forrest bolting out of the pub after five minutes of a discussion about the applicability of science to social relations.


I bet she would bolt as soon as she saw you. Smile
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 07:21 am
Quote:
Evolution Ascendant: Polls Show Darwin's Explanation of Human Origins Up, Creationism Down
(Clay Farris Naff, Huffington Post, September 17, 2011)

Texas Governor Rick Perry, the GOP presidential front-runner, began his campaign by planting his flag in the anti-evolution camp.

Evolution, he told a boy during a campaign stop in New Hampshire, is just "a theory that's out there" -- one that's "got some gaps in it." With startling candor he added that in Texas they teach both creationism and evolution. Actually, a bill to authorize the teaching of "intelligent design," a supposedly scientific theory distinct from creationism, died in the Texas legislature earlier this year. But no doubt the Gov. is right -- the illegal infliction of biblical creationism on public school students in Texas continues. Perry's parting words to the lad were laden with mock ambiguity: "I figure you're smart enough to figure out which one is right." Wink, wink.

In Republican primaries, coming out for creationism might seem as courageous as taking a stand for mom and apple pie, but does this really reflect the views of the nation? New evidence indicates that acceptance of evolution is on the rise, even as biblical literalism sinks.

A long-running Gallup poll on the question of human origins finds that evolution beats creationism 56 percent to 40 percent. Now, it's important to note that the evolution figure is a composite of those who believe in theistic evolution, God guiding the process from off-stage and purely natural evolution. Nevertheless, it is striking to note that those who choose theistic evolution are in a statistical dead heat with those who opt for creationism: 38 percent to 40 percent.

Yet, even that pales in comparison with the trendlines. The percentage of strict creationists has fallen by 10 percent in just the last three years, to its lowest point since the poll began in 1982. What's more, the proportion who chose strictly natural evolution has rocketed up by more than 75 percent since 2000 to 16 percent in the poll just released.

Not surprisingly, perhaps, Fox News has a different poll with different results. Its poll leaves out the option of theistic evolution. Instead, it presents these choices:
* The theory of evolution as outlined by Darwin and other scientists
* The Biblical account of creation as told in the Bible, or
* Are both true?
* (Don't know)


Notice the framing: by putting "theory ... as outlined by Darwin and other scientists" in the question, the pollsters make it as repulsive a choice as possible for anyone with religious leanings. It's practically like asking, "Do you identify yourself with atheist scientists and their theories?"

The second choice brings the Bible to the fore twice in a ten-word question. Now, that third choice is really interesting. It makes about as much sense as asking whether the Earth is both 4.5 billion years old and 10,000 years old. All the same, 27 percent of respondents picked "both are true."

If you presume that they were taking this choice as a proxy for theistic evolution, then together with the 21 percent who chose the "Darwin" answer, then even in this poll, evolution beats creationism 48 percent to 45.

But once again, it's the trendlines that are really impressive. Since Fox News last ran this poll in 1999, the proportion of respondents choosing the "Darwin" answer has shot up by 40 percent, from 15 to 21 percent. In the same period, the proportion picking creationism has fallen by 10 percent, from 50 to 45 percent. There's no fudging that.

Perhaps Governor Perry, who is if nothing else a canny politician, has picked up on the evolving public view. His response to another question about evolution in South Carolina has a more than a hint of waffle in it. Here's MSNBC's account:
[Perry] talked again about evolution, when a woman congratulated him on his comment that evolution was theory. He said, "Well, God is how we got here. God may have done it in the blink of the eye or he may have done it over this long period of time, I don't know. But I know how it got started."

Waffle? On second thoughts, it tastes like weak-tea theistic evolution to me.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 08:02 am
@wandeljw,
What can you expect wande when justifications for pre-marital sex, adultery, birth control, homosexuality and abortion are on offer in a nation where all those things are habitually practiced. I'm surprised that evolution acceptance is a low as it is.

It's also to be expected when most of the media conglomerates, and the legal profession, have promoted evolution as I have shown with your carefully and subjectively (unscientific) selected quotes.

And who stands to gain from an increase in general promiscuity? Why--it's Media and the legal profession. Those two institutions will deal with the NCSE when it's usefulness has declined.

BTW--Biblical literalism has been sinking since the 16th century.

I don't know where you lot would be without Biblical literalists to take pot-shots at. You really ought to consider cossetting and nurturing them.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 08:20 am
@spendius,
Quote:
BTW--Biblical literalism has been sinking since the 16th century.



Thank you for the evolutionary inspiration! Laughing
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 08:37 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

Quote:
Evolution Ascendant: Polls Show Darwin's Explanation of Human Origins Up, Creationism Down
(Clay Farris Naff, Huffington Post, September 17, 2011)

Yet, even that pales in comparison with the trendlines. The percentage of strict creationists has fallen by 10 percent in just the last three years, to its lowest point since the poll began in 1982. What's more, the proportion who chose strictly natural evolution has rocketed up by more than 75 percent since 2000 to 16 percent in the poll just released.


I wonder what's causing that?

Are science classes getting better, are kids getting smarter, or is access to the Internet beginning to pop the isolated bubbles of Creationism that dot the rural areas of the US?
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 07/12/2025 at 12:30:33