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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 12:19 pm
@wandeljw,
Well, its times like these that I thank the founding fathers for their foresight.
Imagine when they try to get their larvae accepted into some world class schools like Stanford or Princeton for genetics.

Genetics with a Creationist base is like a car with square wheels. It aint going anywhere.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 01:20 pm
@farmerman,
It is nothing like a car with square wheels. A wheel is circular by definition. And there is nothing in the universe that is not going somewhere. We are back to flagellas being like bike tyre pump valves.

fm, as usual, is confusing where he wants something to go with it going somewhere. Everywhere else being nowhere. His subjectivity is buried deep in his expression. He uses language as a woman uses a mirror.

The school can do no other than go somewhere. And if its students are "larvae" then so are the students of all schools.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 03:27 pm
@farmerman,
I wonder what a bang-at-it materialist might get up to in "world class schools like Stanford or Princeton for genetics".

0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 09:54 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I don't have any opinions rl. I'm a scientist.


That seems to be an interesting statement! I find that Farmerman's question interesting as well!
Farmer man's Quote about you! HA, youre asking him to give up on all his invested time?
Do you find this to be a logical question?


Quote:
I go with the flow. And it's Christian.


Do you know for certain that it is Christian and not a perverted interpretation of Christianity?

Quote:
If you have an opinion that atheism is better then for ****'s sake make the argument

My opinion is that understanding comes from truth no matter how inconvenient it may seem at times!

Quote:
I can but it would make your hair stand up on end.


Please do make my hair stand up on end ! Please share your intellectual honesty with the world no matter how inconvenient as it may seem!
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 10:21 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote.. "Please share your intellectual honesty". Unquote.

Spentbrain' intellet, is spelt Latcelletni, he see's things backwards you know
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 05:50 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Please share your intellectual honesty....


I have done. I've named all the key writers on these two threads at one time or another. I can't post their works. I don't do spoonfeeding adults.

If your senses don't ever fry your brain with excess of perception it is due to your perception being limited by your socialisation and experience and that isn't something a few well chosen words from me is going to correct.

It is very likely that there is a benefit, both to the individual and to society, that perceptions are limited and that educational policy has doing so as one of its objectives.

As Lenin said--"there are the ones who do and there are ones to whom it is done". Or somesuch. The pro evolution teaching gang whose thoughts have reached this thread show every sign that they are all in the latter category. And yet Americans are seemingly mortified at having it done to them rather than them being the ones who do. And many here as well.

Geoffrey Gorer in The Americans put it down to too much Mommying. Daddy being too busy creating a superpower.

You should read more carefully and in better stuff.

Tell me rl--what do you think a study of fossils contributes to the education of the 300+ million people in a Superpower compared to the contribution of the 50 most significant rock musicians or movie makers?

I don't know what you mean by Farmerman's question. He even thinks Stanford and Princeton are objects in his toy-fort fantasies. As such they will do his bidding he thinks. Phooey!! His verbal trick is merely in the service of associating himself with those elite institutions. He hasn't even bothered responding to my post about the gene being a dynamic entity. He talks about such things and he has no idea what they are. Such words are like a flower in his lapel.

A car with square wheels says it all. And on a science thread too. Sheesh!! Underestimation of his audience is fm's fetish.

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 12:56 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Geoffrey Gorer in The Americans put it down to too much Mommying. Daddy being too busy creating a superpower.

You should read more carefully and in better stuff.


Ok so you think that Geoffrey Gorer in The Americans has much to offer that's cool Rolling Eyes


Quote:
Tell me rl--what do you think a study of fossils contributes to the education of the 300+ million people in a Superpower compared to the contribution of the 50 most significant rock musicians or movie makers?



Are you serious spendius you do not know? Studying fossils adds much to our understanding of species and the history of these species along with many other forms of knowledge learned from studying fossils.

The study of fossils contributes an understanding of science when compared to the contribution of the 50 most significant rock musicians or movies makers. We can conclude that the others just seem to parrot what they have been taught threw their music or making of movies.
Do not get me wrong because even musicians and movie makers can also teach much but I do think that it would be best if we study the works of each specialist within their own field.


Quote:
I don't know what you mean by Farmerman's question


Farmerman's question was pointing out your confirmation bias!

Quote:
A car with square wheels says it all. And on a science thread too. Sheesh!! Underestimation of his audience is fm's fetish.

It was an example that he knew would be easy for everyone to understand!

Even you were able to see the logic that he was using to share his view point! It was his way of saying it does not make good sense to have creationist involved in such a task.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 01:24 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Studying fossils adds much to our understanding of species and the history of these species along with many other forms of knowledge learned from studying fossils.


I can hardly believe that you think that has any meaning. It's fanny.

Quote:
The study of fossils contributes an understanding of science when compared to the contribution of the 50 most significant rock musicians or movies makers.


Perhaps, in your eagerness to sound scientific easily, you have not studied the musicians and movie makers.

Quote:
Farmerman's question was pointing out your confirmation bias!


What bias is that? Accusing one's fellow debaters of bias is not a debating point with any validity unless the explanation is forthcoming. See my first sentence here.

Quote:
It was an example that he knew would be easy for everyone to understand!


Sure it was. As I said, he underestimates us. It was a fatuous comparison as I showed. Had he said a car with wind and piss in the gas tank I might have approved.

But his fundamental error is that the car, used in the Biblical sense, did go somewhere under religious conditions.

PS--I don't usually point to mistakes in the writing of others but you use "threw" instead of "through" all the time. It obviously isn't a typo.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 01:30 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

[PS--I don't usually point to mistakes in the writing of others but you use "threw" instead of "through" all the time. It obviously isn't a typo.

One through over the cuckoos nest?
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 01:38 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Sure it was. As I said, he underestimates us. It was a fatuous comparison as I showed. Had he said a car with wind and piss in the gas tank I might have approved.


Spendius not trying to be mean but what does your approval have to do with him getting his point across?

Quote:
But his fundamental error is that the car, used in the Biblical sense, did go somewhere under religious conditions.

If this is what you think then OK, Not that everyone is going to think like you though!
History of the brain and many other subjects of history have shown that religion has been a hindrance for the evolution of understanding!

Quote:
PS--I don't usually point to mistakes in the writing of others but you use "threw" instead of "through" all the time. It obviously isn't a typo.


I hope that you do not think that you are the only one that sees my weak points, stay around a little longer and you will see me get many things wrong!

Do you ever get things wrong and if you do, have you ever admitted to your mistakes on this forum? Idea
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 03:23 pm
@reasoning logic,
I was merely trying to spare you using "threw" in a CV or something.

I wasn't criticising. I've let it go many times. I was correcting you for your own benefit. "I went threw college..." does sound a bit ridiculous you must admit.

fm only got his point across to those he is justified in underestimating. The rest of us just laughed. Or giggled.

Quote:
History of the brain and many other subjects of history have shown that religion has been a hindrance for the evolution of understanding!


It has not. Nor will it. Why do you make these assertions and offer no evidence to support them? We might be able to discuss any evidence you have but we can't discuss the bald assertion.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 03:31 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I wasn't criticising. I've let it go many times. I was correcting you for your own benefit. "I went threw college..." does sound a bit ridiculous you must admit.


Well thank you for pointing it out. Smile


Quote:
History of the brain and many other subjects of history have shown that religion has been a hindrance for the evolution of understanding!



It has not. Nor will it. Why do you make these assertions and offer no evidence to support them? We might be able to discuss any evidence you have but we can't discuss the bald assertion.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/brain/history/1100.html?position=169.8?button=8

You never did answer if you have ever admitted to anyone here that you were ever wrong! Idea


spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 04:22 pm
@reasoning logic,
Yes I have. Last Friday. Maybe Thursday.

That link is not evidence that the asserion "History of the brain and many other subjects of history have shown that religion has been a hindrance for the evolution of understanding!" is true. It doesn't even address the subject.

There is no evidence and unless you can find a society without religion which has a better understanding than our's has your statement has no weight. And you can't.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 04:47 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Yes I have. Last Friday. Maybe Thursday

Can you prove this?

While you are at it could you also prove that you are not related to Martin Luther because you seem to use the same reasoning? What evidence do you have that you are not related?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 05:19 pm
@reasoning logic,
Of course I can prove it.

I cannot prove that I'm not related to Luther. With about 25 generations since then I must have about 3o to 40 million ancestors from the period.

Why do I use the same reasoning as Luther. This is a science thread rl. Will you kindly provide some evidence for your stupid assertion because otherwise you are starting to look like a one man blurting machine. America must be doomed if there's 308 million blurting machines.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 05:24 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Of course I can prove it.


This will be a nice starting point, Please share this evidence!

Quote:
Will you kindly provide some evidence for your stupid assertion because otherwise you are starting to look like a one man blurting machine


You seem to make assertions about people without understanding their view point, Kind of the same way martin Luther did

Quote "People gave ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best. This fool [or 'man'] wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth.

This is what men of God do at times not because they are trying to be bad people but they are just stead fast {absolutist} in their understanding of things!
Kind of like you saying people need to be lied to because it is in their best interest but you have no scientific data to prove this!

I hope that you do not think that Martin Luther was stupid because I think you would be wrong. It was not that he was stupid but rigid in his beliefs!
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2011 05:27 pm
@reasoning logic,
Why should I? I'm not interested in proving such things to you rl. It's on the record. You're off your trolley mate.
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2011 09:40 pm
@spendius,
Spendy.... You lost again and your last religiously uttered statement proves it :-))
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 05:26 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
You seem to make assertions about people without understanding their view point.


How can you understand another person's viewpoint? In the last few months I have read 4 or 5 books about Luther, Calvin, Spinoza and Erasmus and their relations with the ecclesiastical authorities and various aspects of their private lives. I am reading now Orthodoxy and Heresy in Earliest Christianity by Walter Bauer which is a very elaborate explanation of the process by which the "orthodox" evolved. I just gave half an hour of relaxation to Mailer's essay On the Art of the Absurd in which an argument I often use, in simple form is made.

When you get into that stuff give me a call but until then carry on addressing yourself to the sort of audience you are obviously habituated to. The sort of audience for which this--

Quote:
This is what men of God do at times not because they are trying to be bad people but they are just stead fast {absolutist} in their understanding of things!


passes for conversation in the absence of a definition of "things". Without such a definition the statement is gibberish.

I certainly don't think Luther was stupid. A brilliant opportunist maybe and not without a yellow streak.

Quote:
Kind of like you saying people need to be lied to because it is in their best interest but you have no scientific data to prove this!


Try telling the truth the whole time.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 09:34 am
@spendius,
Quote:

How can you understand another person's viewpoint?


Try and listen to their explanation!


Quote:
In the last few months I have read 4 or 5 books about Luther, Calvin, Spinoza and Erasmus and their relations with the ecclesiastical authorities and various aspects of their private lives. I am reading now Orthodoxy and Heresy in Earliest Christianity by Walter Bauer which is a very elaborate explanation of the process by which the "orthodox" evolved.


OK so you have your heroes as well.

Quote:
When you get into that stuff give me a call but until then carry on addressing yourself to the sort of audience you are obviously habituated to. The sort of audience for which this--

Quote:

This is what men of God do at times not because they are trying to be bad people but they are just stead fast {absolutist} in their understanding of things!



passes for conversation in the absence of a definition of "things". Without such a definition the statement is gibberish.



I find it odd that the #1 reader and replier in my audience is able to converse back and forth and yet make some sense out of my gibberish statements. Shocked
 

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