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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 12:25 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Passages from The Bible are used by many advocates of the State of Israel's policy of building illegal settlements on occupied land.


Don't be so naive izzy. This isn't a girl's infant's school. It's a land grab based on might being right. If there was no might it wouldn't matter how many "many" is.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 12:28 pm
@spendius,
I'm not being naive. Are you saying that advocate of land grab do NOT use passages from The Bible to justify their actions.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 12:34 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Because the state couldn't afford new science books for public schools....


He must be having you on wande. Texas not being able to afford new science books!!! Ye Gods.

Quote:
"One of the reasons I decided to enter the bidding for these books was to give Texas students a fair and honest treatment of evolution.


A little tweet from Fairyland.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 12:38 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Are you saying that advocate of land grab do NOT use passages from The Bible to justify their actions.


No. I'm saying that everybody over 11 knows the score.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 12:46 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
Are you saying that advocate of land grab do NOT use passages from The Bible to justify their actions.


No. I'm saying that everybody over 11 knows the score.


The score being that Israeli moderates are hampered in their attempts to find a peaceful solution by the fervent religiosity of the settlers. This is then accepted by the religious right in the USA. Netenyahu was applauded in Congress when he said that Israel was the Jewish homeland as said in The Bible.

Obviously if Israel didn't have American support, and the best equipped army in the Middle East, they would not be able to enforce the occupation.

Also, if you were such a patronising git to the removal men, it's no wonder you took so long to move house.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 01:04 pm
@izzythepush,
I didn't employ any removal men. I have staff and kit of my own. And I had bought my new house before I sold the old one so I could afford to go at a rational pace.

izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 02:01 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

I have staff and kit of my own.


They have my deepest sympathy.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 02:03 pm
@izzythepush,
izzy, Didn't you know god was in the real estate business? LOL Why did god give the Jews Israel, and nobody else? Is it because they killed Jesus?

God knew they were going to kill the son of god, right?

Quote:
The case against Caiaphas

No trial or execution in history has had such a momentous outcome as that of Jesus in Roman-occupied Jerusalem, 2000 years ago.

But was it an execution or a judicial murder; and who was responsible?

The story begins when the Galilean rebel Jesus rides into Jerusalem on a donkey, deliberately fulfilling a prophecy in the Hebrew Bible about the coming of the Messiah. He's mobbed by an adoring crowd.

The next day Jesus raids the Temple, the heart of the Jewish religion, and attacks money-changers for defiling a holy place.

The leaders of the Jewish establishment realise that he threatens their power, and so do the Romans, who fear that Jesus has the charisma to lead a guerrilla uprising against Imperial Rome.

Jesus is arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane, tried by Caiaphas and then by the Roman Governor. He's sentenced to death and executed.
Caiaphas
Caiaphas Caiaphas had a privileged position

Caiaphas was a supreme political operator and one of the most influential men in Jerusalem. He'd already survived 18 years as High Priest of the Temple (most High Priests only lasted 4), and had built a strong alliance with the occupying Roman power.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 07:13 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
The Discovery Institute, a conservative think tank based in Seattle that is a leading proponent of intelligent design, has filed with the State Board of Education its evaluation of 10 supplemental biology and evolution e-books up for consideration. The institute concluded that nine of them fail to meet Texas standards on teaching evolution.

This is code wording for.
"They-uz ere Biology books got too dang much SCience in em and not nuff JAYZUZ"

Quote:
"This is just one more step in an almost obsessive campaign by some state board members to promote their own personal and ideological beliefs, not mainstream science, in Texas classrooms," Miller said.
Seems that noone with any intelligence is listening. The majority of voters put Perry in office and hes the Darth VAder who's glove is all over this. Should the GOP remember that Mr Perry is considering arun for the Whitehouse ?

Even FW Bush waited till after he was in the WHite House before he started his pro ID crap.

izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 01:37 am
@cicerone imposter,
It's always the last resort of the scoundrel to claim the support of the divine. Certain passages from The Bible have been used to persecute the Jews throughout the centuries.

Despite what you said about the Romans,

'who fear that Jesus has the charisma to lead a guerrilla uprising against Imperial Rome.'

They come out of the affair reasonably unscathed, washing hands of the affair etc. This has probably got more to do with the Emperor Constantine deciding what went into The Bible, as opposed to what actually happened.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 04:22 am
Some of this stuff is similar to when certain females describe football as a bunch of blokes chasing a ball around a field.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 03:40 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Obviously if Israel didn't have American support, and the best equipped army in the Middle East, they would not be able to enforce the occupation.
Obviously the Arabs would have murdered everyone of them .

Do you think it is remotely possible that the UN didn't give Israel enough land in the first place ?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 05:51 am
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
Fight over teaching evolution in Texas fizzles
(JIM VERTUNO, Associated Press, July 22, 2011)

Unlike the fiery debate that erupted two years ago, an expected fight over teaching evolution in Texas public schools has likely fizzled after state education officials made only minor changes to new science materials for the coming school years.

A final vote is expected Friday, a day after the Texas State Board of Education unanimously approved the changes. The Republican-dominated board drew national attention in 2009 when it adopted science standards encouraging schools to scrutinize "all sides" of scientific theory, a move some creationists hailed as a victory.

Thursday's preliminary vote diffused the expected renewal of that debate. Although the board could still make changes Friday, board member David Bradley predicted few fireworks would emerge.

"Somebody might want to refund their tickets," the Republican said after the vote. "There wasn't a fight."

The public hearing Thursday was dominated by witnesses encouraging the board to adopt the materials that had been recommended by state Education Commissioner Robert Scott.

One that didn't make the recommended list was an electronic textbook that includes lessons on intelligent design, which is the theory that life on Earth is so complex it was guided with the help of an intelligent higher power.

"There's no bad science going into classrooms" in the approved materials, said Dan Quinn, spokesman for the Texas Freedom Network, a group that sides with mainstream scientists on teaching evolution.

The new online teaching materials are necessary because the state could not afford to buy new textbooks this year, leaving students to use some that are several years old. Supplemental materials that are approved have the advantage of being on the state's recommended list, but school districts can still buy other materials they chose.

The board instructed two publishers to make changes to some biology materials that used drawings of embryonic similarities between species. The board said more accurate photographs should be used instead.

Another publisher was instructed to make changes to a section that compared human and chimpanzee skulls. The publisher's written response disputed that its material was wrong, and it has the choice of changing the section or withdrawing its material altogether.

Board Chairwoman Barbara Cargill, a former biology teacher who disputes evolution, and Bradley said there was little debate among board members because the materials met the standards set in 2009.

"The supplements are good," said Cargill, a Republican from The Woodlands.

One conservative group, Texans for a Better Science Education, had put out a call to pack Thursday's public hearing with testimony urging board members to adopt materials that question evolution. But they were outnumbered by witnesses urging the board to adopt the materials with few changes.

"I don't want my children's public school teachers to teach faith and God in a science classroom," said the Rev. Kelly Allen of University Presbyterian Church in San Antonio. "True religion can handle truth in all its forms. Evolution is solid science."

The public testimony got off to a heated start. One of the first speakers, Tom Davis of Austin, urged the board to ignore any materials that deal with creationism or intelligent design.

"Intelligent design is creationism, wrapped in thin veneer of pseudoscience," Davis said. "Creation isn't really science at all. It's philosophy."

Sensing that repeated attacks on religion were to come, board member Ken Mercer, R-San Antonio, offered anyone in the audience $500 if they could find any reference in the state science standards to "Jesus or God."

"It's just not there," Mercer said.

The tone of the debate quickly settled down from there.

David Shormann of Magnolia, who runs a Christian-based math and science education software company, said evolution has too many "untestable" components and can't provide a real look at ancient life without a "time machine or a crystal ball."

But Lorenzo Sadun, a math professor at the University of Texas, said those opposing evolution overstate gaps in the fossil record and other areas when trying to discredit the theory.

"The theory of evolution is based on almost as much evidence as the theory of gravity," Sadun said.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 05:56 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw's source wrote:
Another publisher was instructed to make changes to a section that compared human and chimpanzee skulls. The publisher's written response disputed that its material was wrong, and it has the choice of changing the section or withdrawing its material altogether.


Texas has been bullying textbook publishers for more than a decade, and, effectively, writing textbooks for most of the rest of the nation. It's good to see a publisher finally standing up to the bullying.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 05:57 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

..... Should the GOP remember that Mr Perry is considering arun for the Whitehouse ?

Gov. Perry of TX openly supports "intelligent design" - that's his personal right; but I don't think he's actively pushing for teaching it in the schools, because in addition to biology the schools also teach elements of geology - and for the life of me I can't see how the geological record can be twisted to support ID. Moving on to the really, really, interesting part of our planet's geology (well, to me, at any rate!) look at this peridot trapped inside a diamond ring:
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/assets_c/2011/07/sn-diamonds-thumb-200xauto-10567.jpg
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/07/deep-diamonds-shed-light-on-anci.html
Can this diamond really be 3 billion years old, as this article says? Does the peridot inclusion detract or enhance its valuation? Any info welcomed Smile

MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 06:04 am
from Wandel's posted article:

Quote:
"I don't want my children's public school teachers to teach faith and God in a science classroom," said the Rev. Kelly Allen of University Presbyterian Church in San Antonio. "True religion can handle truth in all its forms. Evolution is solid science."


Got that, Spendius? Someone deeply involved in religion says society has no problem with evolution, as you repeatedly feel, and sees no need for teaching anything like your version of intelligent design to make students feel better about themselves, as you seem to desire.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 07:13 am
@MontereyJack,
What can I do Jack if you can't follow my argument. What does what "someone deeply involved in religion" say have to do with me. That the Rev. Kelly Allen of University Presbyterian Church in San Antonio is "deeply involved in religion" is an assertion anyway. The Rev. likely doesn't know, or doesn't wish to know, my reasons for resisting teaching evolution to school kids. Neither do you. It's "controversial" don't you know? The economics of it is mind boggling.

But I accept that it is possible to pretend to be teaching it and even to pretend that school-teaching equates to learning.

Not many can get two non sequiturs in one sentence. But your practicing a bag full of them about my personal life on another thread has obviously gone to your head. I disdained to reply in kind. I hope you don't think I was incapable of doing.

I don't have a female brandishing a rolling-pin looking over my shoulder. One famous author said that he would never publish a book whilst his Mom was alive. Neither would I.

But a female brandishing a rolling-pin is not so bad really. It's understandable. Buying into it is ridiculous. Especially when blissfully unaware one has done.

Do you really thing that this dispute has continued for 150 years for no reason? That BAFTA award hubris I should have thought. And based on what one Presbyterian minister says. Sheesh!!

If everybody in the pub was like that I would sit on my own.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 07:27 am
I follow your argument. Empricially it's false. Teaching soemthing for which there's no evidence is not valid science. And unless you really do talk to millipedes, that's just a joke. And more misogyny, as you keep demonstrating, in your last post. Pathetic.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 07:34 am
@MontereyJack,
Spendius has repeatedly tried to get some female to stick around and has failed dismally every time. Hint: look at the diamond ring posted on this very page Smile
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 07:40 am
@High Seas,
Gov PErry's mitts are all over the "Creationist" supplemental resources that may be forwarded , or else the proposal will be defeated out of embarrasment.

As I said before, even Bush was smart enough to keep his personals to himself until AFTER he was elected president.

____________________________________________________-

As far as geology and ID, I think geo is one of the easiest disciplines to comport with ID beliefs. ID mostly goes along with the age of the earth as science states and they "Believe" in the strat record and earth structures, so there arent many points of argument between the IDers and geo. Its all in the interpretation of how things arrived on the planet. They say that each appearnace is a unique footprint of divine intervention (Or at least intelligent intervention) Most science arrives at a concluison that had there been ANY intervention , it was about the most incompetent "Design" ever. IDers dont like "Evolutionary trial balloons" it mucks up their waters
_____________________________________________________
PEridotite ROCKS, often contain peridot MINERALS, but mostly contain minerals such as olivine,pyroxenes , and micas. Olivine is the close relative of periidot(which is actually a form of tourmaline).When peridotites erode and alter , they are called SERPENTINE
Kimberlites are ocean mantle relics that form where subductive zones, island arcs or continental collisons have occured and the presence of peridot mineral gives this diamond away as being most likely from the AFrican fields of S A and Botswana.
Other kimberlites are examnined for specific types of garnets (called uvarovites) to see whether they may contain diamonds. Thats what these guys in Canada were doing for about 10 years .Kimberlites are pof various ages and have footprints that distinguish the temperatures and their "Zipper cousins" from across the oceans
In the US for example, the Kimberlites of the Apppalachian belt mostly lie out in the Ohio PA W Va margins and correspond to similar types from the Atlas Mountains and East.

Diamonds , as SHirey said, act like a good "thermos bottle" to keep all the decay products inside the crystal, so all the decay products from U/Th and U/Hf are safely inside. Im sure that the date wasnt 3 Billion years (It was probably rounded off from some compound number with a large error bar)

I have no idea what diamonds with inclusions are worth. Mostly they are "Imperfections", anyway, diamonds are only worth something because cartels keep the bulk of them off the market.
 

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