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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 06:16 pm
@farmerman,
We're saying the exact same thing - not sure why that's not clear to you.

Steer clear from religion altogether, stick to scientific inquiry. Another example, from politics, is the inane support for Israeli settlements in Arab lands on grounds that "the Bible says so"; this is an actual quote from one of our politicians. Maybe it does say so, but we can't run foreign policy based on biblical texts! We can't run science classes based on religion - or on any other doctrinal system like allegiance to the communist party, Lysenko being a case in point.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 07:12 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
Lysenko being a case in point.


He did seem to be wrong about some of what he thought but he did add value to our understanding of chill hour requirements!
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 03:37 am
@High Seas,
Ok, Ill pass.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 03:38 am
@farmerman,
Let's see your cards then.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 03:52 am
@High Seas,
Quote:
We can't run science classes based on religion - or on any other doctrinal system like allegiance to the communist party, Lysenko being a case in point


Its good if we realize this but unfortunately, in the US, "We" is a multi constituency each with its sources of enlightenment. Remember, they call it "Cretion SCience" and "Intelligent Design". Keeping these and their offspring out of public schools is all Im about here. My own career pursuits are grounded in the scientific method I can assure you.
However,the concept of acquired characteristics, is getting a fresh look based upon genetic interactions and epigenetic changes. Lysenko is getting a fresh look (not the whole bag of tricks but a few areas of his inquiries)


The next areas of educational concerns are in the charter schools. These educational centers have been started from several POVs. They represent "for profit fiscal austerity in education" or "Family valued educational expweriences" or even magnet school opportunities ofr kids whose parents feel that their little geniuses are being short changed by the state run Ed Inc.

While many of these charter schools have the requirements that their "products" must show equal attainment of ed goals (measured by tests), the charter does NOT have to forego some brief messages from " your maker".
The charter schools are subsidized by our taxes as an alternative to public schools and , in fact, the public school system and the charter school under consideration sort of split the per student allotment.
Charter schools are, in my opinion, an extension of the public school system and should not be practicing any other "science" than that approved by the statge ed board.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 05:07 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Quote:
There goes the last vestiges of my dignity .
Hell, youre a Kallikak, everything else is up.
The connection may be clear to you, but I doubt it...do you know what you were trying to say ? I suppose this is my fault for discussing with a man who only has two great grandparents in his family tree .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 05:12 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
SOmeone tell the AUstralian
Let me guess ... because of my nationality it is impossible to know the Bible or the USA Civil War... do I have to be a 4,000 yr old Jew ? I know you are a Civil War vet...no-one could be as senile as you and only be from WWI .

Quote:
In fact, even the veracity of its history is greatly in debate by scholars.
Then debate away, oh great scholar of rocks with personality....

Why dont you wake up and realise very little science depends on evolution .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 05:13 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
My comment was for the deniers whove said that NOONE is interpreting the Bible as science.
Will a quote be forthcoming ?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 05:19 am
@Ionus,
Evening ANUS. More pearls from your sphincter I see. Anything else? like a cogent thought maybe?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 05:22 am
@farmerman,
Dont be shy, respond to those questions raised... and try to leave yourself, **** and arseholes out of it....(I dont know why you always associate those three together).
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 05:28 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
(measured by tests),


Tell us about the "tests" fm. I'm all agog to know about all the fiddling which was in obvious operation when you got your certificates.

I'm all in favour of the Florida Superintendent fiddling for her poor kids when the posh lot have been fiddling the "tests" for as long as "educational" institutions could not only bask in glory when its students were "very successful" but could also boost its funding, have a profitable shindig at the "graduation" ceremonies (a sort of religious experience) and be spoken of in local media in glowing terms.

Read Veblen's The Higher Learning in America and that's 100 years old. It's a business fm. Grow up or at least allow that some of us have managed that simple feat.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 05:51 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Tell us about the "tests" fm. I'm all agog to know about all the fiddling which was in obvious operation when you got your certificates.



I never knew farmerman could play the violin.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 06:10 am
@High Seas,
Quote:
Steer clear from religion altogether, stick to scientific inquiry.


Oh yes--let's. We could do the scientific aspects of religious theology. You would love that HS.

Quote:
Another example, from politics, is the inane support for Israeli settlements in Arab lands on grounds that "the Bible says so"; this is an actual quote from one of our politicians.


It's an example of a non sequitur. "One of our politicians" is hardly evidence of anything except the absence of the "scientific inquiry" you spoke so authoritatively about.

It's a land grab of the usual sort although not on the same scale as some I could mention if it wasn't for the fact that I'm polite and discreet. It has nothing to do with what the Bible says. Trying to associate the Bible with land grabbing will only work on sites which attract stupid members.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 06:13 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Trying to associate the Bible with land grabbing will only work on sites which attract stupid members.


Unfortunately it's a fact. Passages from The Bible are used by many advocates of the State of Israel's policy of building illegal settlements on occupied land.
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 08:11 am
@izzythepush,
So the UN is the ultimate arbitrator on who owns what ? Who decided that ?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 09:29 am
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
Texas Board of Education to debate evolution again
(Terrence Stutz, The Dallas Morning News, July 18, 2011)

AUSTIN, Texas -- Human evolution and Charles Darwin's theories, hot topics for the Texas State Board of Education when they approved new science standards two years ago, are back this week for a new round of debate.

Board members are scheduled to review and adopt supplemental science materials that incorporate the new curriculum standards adopted in 2009, including those that deal with evolution and Darwin's principles on the development of life on Earth.

Because the state couldn't afford new science books for public schools, students will have to continue using books that are seven years old for at least a couple more years. But to give students access to the new science standards, the board will adopt a list of supplemental science materials to be delivered electronically to schools this fall.

The board will make its choices after determining which of the submitted science e-books cover the new curriculum. But board members will debate which comply and which don't.

Member Mavis Knight, D-Dallas, said review of the science materials will inevitably bring the board to discuss evolution again. Two years ago, social conservatives on the board sought to require that high school students learn about flaws in natural selection, common ancestry and other Darwin principles.

"I don't think that debate is ever settled," said Knight, who was on the winning side of several close votes in 2009 that went against evolution critics.

New board Chairwoman Barbara Cargill, R-The Woodlands, a member of the social conservative bloc, gave a preview of the debate during a recent speech at a Texas Eagle Forum meeting in Conroe. She said the six social conservatives will have to find two additional votes to prevail on key issues like science books.

"There are six true, conservative Christians on the board. So we now have to fight for two votes," she told forum members. Some interpreted that as a slap at the other five Republicans on the panel, who also consider themselves conservative. The remaining four board members are Democrats.

One of the biology e-books that is up for review includes sections on "intelligent design" - the proposition that development of living things is best explained by an intelligent cause rather than an undirected process such as Darwin's principle of natural selection, commonly called "survival of the fittest."

Opponents say it's religious-based creationism, though advocates reject that link.

The Discovery Institute, a conservative think tank based in Seattle that is a leading proponent of intelligent design, has filed with the State Board of Education its evaluation of 10 supplemental biology and evolution e-books up for consideration. The institute concluded that nine of them fail to meet Texas standards on teaching evolution.

Only one "makes any serious attempt to fulfill the call for meaningful critical analysis of biological and chemical evolution," the report argues.

The Discovery Institute also accused several of the publishers of promoting "notoriously inaccurate icons of evolution" in their materials, such as a long-used chart that shows similarities between human embryos and the embryos of other vertebrates. The institute says the chart is inaccurate and outdated.

The Texas Freedom Network, a nonprofit group that sides with mainstream science teachers against evolution critics, has taken issue with the Discovery Institute, describing its report as "one long complaint that the instructional materials do not cover creationist-fabricated arguments against evolution."

Kathy Miller, the group's president, also contended that social conservatives on the board have appointed anti-evolution creationists to the review team that is examining the 14 biology e-books submitted for consideration. The panel has presented its findings to the board, like other review teams appointed to evaluate the various science materials proposed for all grade levels.

"This is just one more step in an almost obsessive campaign by some state board members to promote their own personal and ideological beliefs, not mainstream science, in Texas classrooms," Miller said.

Causing much of the debate is a high school biology e-book submitted by International Databases LLC. It's the first submission to Texas by the small publisher, which does business out of a modest suburban home in the Albuquerque, N.M., area.

Unlike the other biology materials under consideration, the International Databases e-book promotes intelligent design in biology classes despite a federal court decision that teaching of intelligent design in public schools violates the constitutional separation of church and state.

Stephen Sample, president of International Databases, said he's not trying to introduce religion into the science curriculum. He noted that he has submitted a second high school biology book that does not include mention of intelligent design.

"I am not trying to bring the book of Genesis into science classes," he said. "One of the reasons I decided to enter the bidding for these books was to give Texas students a fair and honest treatment of evolution. The scientific community is split on Darwin's theory, and my material reflects that."

Proponents say that the vast majority of scientists endorse the fundamental theory of evolution, even if they disagree on some of the details.

Sample, a science teacher for 35 years in California and New Mexico, said the 2009 curriculum standards adopted by the board called for instructional materials to include a critical analysis of key principles of Darwin - and he contended that some leading publishers have sidestepped the requirement.

"If they don't present material that critically analyzes neo-Darwinism, then their books are wrong and outdated," he said.

The Discovery Institute gave good marks to Sample's e-book, but said it should not include coverage of intelligent design.

Other publishers have said their submissions comply with the board standards and some science educators who have review the other e-books have given several of them good marks.

Supplemental materials adopted by the State Board of Education will have an advantage over those not on the state list, but school districts will be able to choose whatever e-books they want and have them paid for by the state. Previously, a district could select textbooks and other materials not on the state-approved list, but they had to use local funds to buy them.

The Legislature appropriated about $60 million to purchase the supplemental science e-books this year.

Board members will hold a public hearing on the science materials on Thursday before deciding which ones to adopt. A final vote will be taken Friday.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 11:08 am
@wandeljw,
What is interesting about creationism is the fact that they can "see" how amazing it is that life forms have advanced the way they have over millions of years when they consider all necessary from a designer, but fail to "see" that along the negatives of "intelligent" design, there are many flaws. There are many biological and environmental poisons and defects that have also evolved along with what "they" consider outside the scope of evolution. It's called nature or natural selection.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 11:13 am
@cicerone imposter,
In the news item, I liked the comment made about the Discovery Institute's position:

Quote:
"one long complaint that the instructional materials do not cover creationist-fabricated arguments against evolution."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 11:16 am
@wandeljw,
Yea, they can make statements that goes beyond the pale of reality. They can't see how blind they are in their push for religion in science.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 12:20 pm
Geoffrey Chaucer wrote-

Quote:
But for my daughter Julian,
I would she were well bolted with a Bridle,
That leaves her work to play the clack,
And lets her wheel stand idle,
For it serves not for she-ministers,
Farriers nor Furriers,
Cobblers nor Button-makers,
To descant on the Bible.


How about scientists who leave their work to clack and let their expensive labs stand idle? Or 'ology majors and dim-witted ninnies? To say nothing of half-baked geologists.
0 Replies
 
 

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