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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 10:14 am
@spendius,
Look at like this lads-- the poets were pretty pissed off when scientists explained the sunset. And then found that it wasn't the moon that made women feel all funny like but that they thought it did. Mind over matter.

The Grand Canyon was just another hanging valley which is an effect you can see on muck middens that have been left undisturbed for a few months. It's only big because it's in the Yooessay. A Freudian would interpret whooing and aaahing at such banal mundanity in a slightly different light than I would. One thing that never gets mentioned about Freud is that all his patients were stupid.

Marriages were molecules with the strength of the bond being variable depending upon the various factors involved in this debate. Weak ones being a sort of feeding frenzy for the legal profession and media. Often involving individual members of those esteemed professions as well and who rarely hang on their own petard with dignity.

But that's only "social matter" after all. It can be explained by scientists and attempts have been made down the years to do so. Many a segment of White Space (that's flattened out wood pulp before ink is inserted) has been covered in such attempted explanations in our glossy magazines and various other places as well. That could itself be a molecular bond weakener.

But us!! Our very self? A duality exists between the man who "knows" and his "real you". One of Prof. Skinner's students studied the Prof while he was studying his rats. He who "knows" is committed to explaining his own "self" in the end. He's chasing his tail or, as fm often has it, too often really, he has his head either up his arse or seeking to be.

Does the "self" go the way of the sunset and the Grand Canyon. It being just a glob of protoplasm extruded through billions of holes each of which is slightly different and which shapes its destiny.

Some modern thinkers have sought consolation in thinking that the "self" will not allow that to happen. But I'm not so sure.

A "self" must do the "knowing". And what is "known" is chosen and the assumptions and the values implicit in the choice cannot be explained in terms of whatever theories constitute the "knowing". And if it was explained the explanation would be susceptible to the same investigation in an infinite regress or until depersonalisation put a end to the series.

Can the "self" actually identify with anything that is explained or as contingent as the "self" turns out to be when scrutinised scientifically. Or even with another "self" in such a conceptual state. Is it logically impossible?

Kant's Categorical Imperitive is derived from such considerations and philosophers before and after him. Know thyself. Cogito ergo sum. I'm walking backwards for Christmas.



cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 10:15 am
@spendius,
I stopped reading your post after, "look it like this, lads..."
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 10:23 am
@cicerone imposter,
Who cares about all that **** ci.? It's elementary.

What we wish to know is what to do as of 09.23 A2K time. Your advice of two days ago has turned out worse than useless.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 10:29 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I stopped reading your post after, "look it like this, lads..."


The seducer who bottles out at the bedroom door.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 09:18 am
LOUISIANA UPDATE
Quote:
Lawmakers asked to repeal of Science Education Act
(Mike Hasten, Monroe News-Star, April 28, 2011)

High school students, teachers, scientists and college professors are asking the Legislature to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act, which the group says is a misnomer because its goal is to introduce creationism into classrooms.

The act has given Louisiana "an anti-science reputation," said Baton Rouge Magnet High School senior Zach Kopplin, whose efforts to repeal the law are supported by 72 Nobel laureates around the country.

"Louisiana is addicted to creationism," he said, recalling a 1987 U.S. Supreme Court case that threw out a state law that said creationism could be taught along with evolution.

At the urging of Kopplin and the Louisiana Coalition for Science, Sen. Karen Carter Peterson, D-New Orleans, is handling legislation (SB70) seeking to repeal the act. She and others said just having the law on the books hurts the state.

The law requires the Board of Elementary and Secondary Education, upon request of a local school board, to "allow and assist teachers, principals and other school administrators to create and foster an environment within public elementary and secondary schools that promotes critical thinking skills, logical analysis, and open and objective discussion of scientific theories being studied including evolution, the origins of life, global warming, and human cloning."

It says teachers are to instruct students on the material in the standard textbook but they may supplement it with other materials approved by the school board.

The measure has opened the door for creationism to be taught in school, members of the Louisiana Coalition for Science said Thursday in a rally on the state Capitol steps.

They pointed to school board discussions and plans in Livingston and Tangipahoa parishes to introduce creationism into the classroom.

The Livingston Parish board postponed its plans to include creationism this year after being advised that it could not afford an expensive lawsuit promised by the ACLU.

Proponents of Nevers' bill adopted in 2008 said it was needed because teachers were afraid to teach "the controversy" that there's an alternative to evolution.

Kevin Carman, dean of the LSU College of Science, said "The controversy to which they refer is a fabrication of their own imagination....Evolution is as integral to understanding biology as atoms are to understanding chemistry."

Carman said he and other scientists "urge legislators and Gov. Jindal to do what is right."

Ian Binns, assistant professor of science education at LSU, said that when he attends national conferences "it's an absolute embarrassment."

Binns teaches a science teaching methods class that discusses the Science Education Law.

"I want students to understand what not to do and make them understand about the supplemental materials" that can utilized, he said. "I want to make sure they understand the hidden meaning of the law."

Among those attending the rally were teachers and professors carrying signs. One said "Teachers Against Teaching Ignorance" and another "Take science education forward to 2025, not back to 1925."

Repealing the act won't be an easy task. Sen. Ben Nevers' SB733, which became Act 473 when signed by Gov. Bobby Jindal in 2008, was coauthored by 25 of 39 senators and 65 of 105 House members.

Speaker of the House Jim Tucker, R-Terrytown, said "I don't see any real support on the House side" for repealing the act.

The 1987 court ruling that threw out the old law said it was unconstitutional because it was specifically intended to advance a particular religion. It also held that "teaching a variety of scientific theories about the origins of humankind to school children might be validly done with the clear secular intent of enhancing the effectiveness of science instruction."

The Science Education Act said it "shall not be construed to promote any religious doctrine, promote discrimination for or against a particular set of religious beliefs, or promote discrimination for or against religion or nonreligion."
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 02:24 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
It says teachers are to instruct students on the material in the standard textbook but they may supplement it with other materials approved by the school board.
SO, its a collusionary thing among school boarders and the selected teachers chosen to "teach the controversy and promote critical thinking"

MAybe a way to stem another expensive lawsuit of this from going forward is to include writings in the Cherokee written language about their own creation legends. wouldnt these be considered "resources"?
Otherwise it looks like its a sure date with a court docket. I wonder whether the courts are being counted on to be "sympathetic" to the SEA

Quote:
....Evolution is as integral to understanding biology as atoms are to understanding chemistry."

Simple and elegant
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 03:21 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
It says teachers are to instruct students on the material in the standard textbook but they may supplement it with other materials approved by the school board.


Which is fair enough seeing that a scientific mind would suggest that the only other alternative was the teacher being behind a screen reading the standard textbook in a droning monotone. "Other materials" are not a strawman.

The "collusionary thing among school boarders and the selected teachers chosen to "teach the controversy and promote critical thinking" ", is fair enough too. That's not a strawman either. It might merely be due to the natural resistance of human groups to an attempt to impose rules upon them from some office in far away barmpotland.

You are making these sentences into strawmen. Then beating him up.

And the lawsuits you envisage are only "expensive" to those who are not getting anything out of them.

There's a reason for us thinking the world is only 6,000 years old. Just as there is for thinking it much older. And the Cherokee creation legends had proved mal-adapted as had all the others.

I think the former reasoning is likely to have been sound on the evidence of its longevity and success. The reasoning behind the older earth is, so to speak, a counter jumper in comparison. The average person does not have your cool, dispassionate, matter of fact, view of this world.

BTW--what happens next in these devastated towns we have unfortunately seen on the news?

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 04:21 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
There's a reason for us thinking the world is only 6,000 years old. Just as there is for thinking it much older. And the Cherokee creation legends had proved mal-adapted as had all the others.

The only difference is that standard science can "EVIDENCE" a much older earth using the same atoms , electrons and neutrons. CAn the Bibloical legend do the same? (Ill answer that without fear of contradiction)--NOPE.

Quote:
And the lawsuits you envisage are only "expensive" to those who are not getting anything out of them.
99.999999% of the population gets fiscally fucked from the event, while only 0.000001% gather geld for their performances. Are you even of this planet?

OH YEH, The Cherokee legends dont measure the time of duration or propogation of the earth.

Quote:
BTW--what happens next in these devastated towns we have unfortunately seen on the news?
We bury the dead, fix the wounded, roll up our sleeves and put everything back together. We do this in California every twenty years or so. (An ideal role for the governments that even the teabaggers wont duck from)
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 04:27 pm
@farmerman,
Louisiana is a state wherein referenda can be floated. I wonder what the results of a referendum that would be proposeing to "teach the controversy and use Creationist /ID resources to do so?". If the referendum would be worded to state the fact that it would require the govt to spend unknown millions to defend the law in probable law suits?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 05:01 pm
@farmerman,
Governments don't spend money fm. They spread it around. Like you spread oil around when you get an antique farm implement out on your dude ranch after a few years parked in the barn.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 07:04 pm
@spendius,
What is the difference between spread and spend are they both not spent in the end?

Seriously!
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 07:06 pm
@reasoning logic,
I just ket stuff like that go, its an argument without a point.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 07:15 pm
@farmerman,
You are correct! At least in my opinion!
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2011 03:52 am
@reasoning logic,
To spend, to expend, is to use up. Spreading is functional in terms of putting to use. Whose use is a complex matter in sociological terms.

The $14 trillion deficit constitutes a spending and what is being spread around is the future economic efforts of the next generation/s for which you recently expressed your tender and loving care.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2011 03:55 am
@farmerman,
Letting it go is the best way fm. It enables you to maintain your poise of dignity when, in reality, you're just another phoney hypocrite who puts on Ignore any considerations which threaten to reveal the true position.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2011 05:10 am
@spendius,
No, it merely allows me to be polite and not have to call you an idiot in public , for inventing and believing that **** you "Spread around" , like peanut butter.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2011 06:10 am
@farmerman,
You still, after all this time, cannot see that referring to me as an "idiot" can only be justified on the basis that it is actually "****" that I spread around. As is the corollory. Which is to say that your statement is circular and thus the real thing as **** goes.

An idiot is defined, in this context at least, as somebody who spreads **** and **** is defined, again in this context, as what is spread by idiots.

I'm surprised that you underestimate the viewers of a science thread so comprehsively.

As a farmer of sorts you must be aware that **** spreading is the very opposite of idiotic. The neolithic transition from hunter-gathering to settled agriculture is based on **** spreading being highly intelligent.

It is an illusion I'm afraid that your supporting claque on here provides intellectual reinforcement to your position. It does nothing of the kind. Just as the lack of support for me does nothing to lay a glove on mine.

The applause of wande, ros, ci., rl and pom is not worth a gnat's last drop. Any dispassionate observer would imagine that it might give you pause for thought. Even one who is disposed to agree with you, Io., that evolution should be taught in schools has nothing but contempt for the lot of you.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2011 06:40 am
@spendius,
We use artificial fertilisers, like you lot, because there is not enough **** to meet demand.

I was on some allotments last week and the tenders of the soil had an enormous pile of **** at their disposal.

A local horseriding correctional institution, which caters for the better off fathers to facilitate their daughters to learn a skill to stand them in good stead later in life, dumps it on them. The skill, of course, is to maintain poise when the jahanga is juddered and jolted and jarred against a mildly hard resistance and to be able to make sure that the poise is not threatened by any untoward steeds by recourse to disciplinary procedures.

Someone told me, when I arrived back at base with a pick-up truck piled up with well-rotted horse stable gleanings, that I shouldn't use the stuff. It contains the seeds of some weed which is difficult to eradicate I was told. Tail-weed or something.

Evolution is extremely nifty I must admit.

Have you an expert view on the matter. I've not spread it yet. Save me from the Tail-weed if my informant is correct.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2011 07:05 am
Quote:
Biological Warfare: Battles Under Way In Texas And Louisiana Over Science Education
(Rob Boston, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, April 29, 2011)

It looks like Texas is due for another round of fussing and fighting over creationism in public schools.

The state Board of Education continues to be dominated by Religious Right zealots who refuse to accept modern science and seek to teach religiously based concepts in biology classes. (They also reject accepted history. Remember, these are the people who hired “Christian nation” propagandist David Barton to help rewrite their social studies standards.)

Our friends at the Texas Freedom Network (TFN) have just sounded the alarm. A New Mexico-based outfit called International Databases has submitted a proposal to supply Texas schools with materials during the 2011-12 year. The group, according to an analysis by TFN and the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), promotes a litany of creationist canards.

“International Databases’ materials are not only laced with creationist arguments,” said NCSE’s Joshua Rosenau, “they are also remarkably shoddy, teeming with misspellings, typographical errors, and mistaken claims of fact.”

NCSE reports that International Databases’ materials treat “intelligent design” as legitimate science, misconstrue the views of Charles Darwin and assert that the theory of evolution is being undermined by new discoveries.

As TFN points out, the problems go back two years, when the State Board of Education approved new science curriculum standards that, while not calling for full-blown creationism, flung open a back door to it. At that time, group like TFN, NCSE and Americans United warned that the weak standards would spur creationist groups to push to have their materials adopted for classroom use. We’re seeing that now.

Of course, this is just what many on the state board want. Several of them are young-Earth creationists. AU would like to remind them of the dangers of continuing down this path. Remember what happened in Dover, Pa., when the school board there decided to teach intelligent design?

If you live in Texas, get involved.

Also, if you are in the environs of San Antonio, you can hear Americans United Executive Director Barry W. Lynn speak on this issue and others tomorrow.

Meanwhile, things are also heating up in Louisiana. At a rally yesterday in Baton Rouge, students, scientists and teachers pressed the legislature to overturn a state law that opens the door to creationism in public schools.

The pro-science activists want to repeal the so-called “Louisiana Science Education Act,” which allows schools to use “supplemental materials” in the classroom. Naturally, this material promotes creationist ideas.

Sen. Karen Carter Peterson, D-New Orleans, has introduced legislation (SB70) that would repeal the act.

Zach Kopplin, a senior at Baton Rouge Magnet High School, has been leading the effort for better science education in Louisiana. During the rally, he said Louisiana has “an anti-science reputation” and added, “Louisiana is addicted to creationism.”

Among the other speakers was Kevin Carman, dean of Louisiana State University’s College of Science. Carman told the crowd, “The controversy to which they refer is a fabrication of their own imagination. Evolution is as integral to understanding biology as atoms are to understanding chemistry.”

Barbara Forrest, a philosophy professor at Southeastern Louisiana University and a member of Americans United’s Board of Trustees, has also been active in the struggle. Forrest is leader of the Louisiana Coalition for Science and the co-author of Creationism’s Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design.

I’ve followed this issue for many years. In fact, I first began working at Americans United not long after the Supreme Court struck down a Louisiana law mandating “balanced treatment” between evolution and “creation science” way back in 1987.

One thing I’ve learned about creationists is that they’re tenacious. If you beat them in court, they don’t just go away. They come back with something new. Thus, “creation science” became other things – “the theory of abrupt appearance,” “the theory of intelligent design” and, most recently, claims that we need to “teach the controversy.”

The creationists’ goal is simple: instill doubts about evolution and pave the way for fundamentalist religious concepts in public schools.

Ironically, the creationists’ political and legal strategies keep evolving. Therefore, we defenders of church-state separation and good science education must remain on our (prehensile) toes as well.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2011 07:16 am
@wandeljw,
NCSE is going to highlight many of these supplemmental materials and allow the readers to critique for their own use. Its only fair. Im sure there will be some copywright infringement suits over this, but hey, its only a way to spread money around like a drunken sailor in a whorehouse.
 

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