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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 06:27 pm
@rosborne979,
Good analogy--human activity is likely far less significant than our conceits suggest to us.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 06:28 pm
@reasoning logic,
Can you prove it or do you just believe everything Wikipedia says ?
rosborne979
 
  0  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 06:38 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Good analogy--human activity is likely far less significant than our conceits suggest to us.

Yes. The ice core record shows very clear warming cycles with sharp spikes. So in my view, even if we are contributing in some significant way, it isn't going to change anything. The Earth already had its sights set on a nice new temperature spike followed by the next ice age, we just happened to start polluting the atmosphere right before it's going to happen.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 06:43 pm
@Ionus,
I did not say you were wrong, but if you would like to share your evidence for your claim I will consider it and try to find out whether it is true or not but I am no expert in that field!
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 06:57 pm
@reasoning logic,
The point is simple . It is probable that HIV causes AIDS . Too many fools think that if something is probable then it must be true . In the case of AIDS, there have been too many interventions and experimentation is unethical to prove HIV causes AIDS . This will probably always be so . One of the major problems is the lead time to get AIDS from HIV and that not everyone who gets HIV contracts AIDS . I do NOT contend that HIV does not cause AIDS, I simply say it can not be proven . Gomer the Turd, being a manly scientist and all, should know the difference between probable and proven but he doesnt . Some scientist .
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 07:13 pm
@rosborne979,
The sampling of ice cores, for esample, show the O16/O18 ratios to be determinant of what the sea temperatures were. In the same time and slightly after the O16/O18 , the CO2/CH4 concentraions spike. Its been that way for the loess deposits except loess records pollen and the CH4 is collected on specific minerals. SAme thing with sediments and even glacial lake varves. I cant say what will occur but only what has. To this date the release of CH4 from permafrost peats and from Methyl hydrates in the ocean rises has not even begun to happen and, I suppose that the heavy amount of these gases will certainly refract solar light even further. However, the various cycles of our sun and sunspot minima, and solar wobbles have a greater effect than do humans.
I personally dont buy the "hockey stick" science because its outcome based and the data has been "fudged".
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 08:12 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Well pom--it says --"what he identifies as a rising anti-science sentiment in the country." and then he says --"don't lose faith in democracy".


Because you can only argue by setting up a straw man, you ignored his statement that the people will pick science.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 10:26 pm
@plainoldme,
There will always be a small percentage of people who are devoutly anti-religion and there will always be a small percentage who are devoutly religious . Most people however will be more religious during hard times and less religious during easy times .
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 03:26 am
@plainoldme,
Quote:
Because you can only argue by setting up a straw man, you ignored his statement that the people will pick science.


"People will pick science" is far too loose a phrase. They have scientific applications in churches. And religious people benefit from science all the time. Miller's remark is meaningless. Having a fridge doesn't mean having bought into the full scientific agenda and having rejected religious belief.

And it doesn't jive with his identification of a "rising anti-science sentiment".

What straw man have you in mind? I simply quoted two contradictory statements from the same guy in one spiel. I ignored nothing. Your two assertions are both incorrect.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 04:11 am
@farmerman,
What is "hockey stick" science?
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 04:14 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
It seems that most morning ride radio around here has become a GOP shill for any asshole theory that GNC may flot out there. This includes evolution, AIDs?HIV, global warming etc.

Im a decided lefty and dont buy anthropogenic global warming because it has some serious problems in evidence. That would make me a righty and Im not. HIV/AIDS not being associated is purely a GOP /libertarian thing, and these guys just deny evidence that has come on board since the early 2000's. AS far as evolution, like spendi and ANUS, theres this whacko contingent that tries to make it a case for some kind of breakdown in society. This too is a GOP thing where its been championed by these yahoos like Ricky Santorum and the past president, as well as Several of the 2012 GOP candidates. Politics should just release science and get back to jobs, taxes, the economy, and waste.


That's just silliness fm. You're no lefty as I showed with your attitude to prisoners and you show yourself by rejecting the left on GW.

I think AIDS is caused by weakened immune systems brought on by loss of self-esteem. The Ability to Incubate Deadly ****. It might be argued that the human race is capable of dealing with weak viruses but low self-esteem sets the evolved capacity aside. Do we know whether the euphoria associated with narcotics is not an antidote to HIV which, as I understand it, is all around us. Flu kills poor people more than it does well off people.

The immune system is a function of psychosomatic factors. Religion might stengthen the immune system. We do know that the human race in all its manifestations has used both narcotics and religion so evolution theory has sanctioned both as positively adaptive in moderate usages. The Church condemns excessive piety.

Weak immune systems are a rich seam for the medical profession, and others, to exploit so one might expect it to encourage them. The sick person is notoriously dependent on "experts". And we might go broke with it as the latest attempt here to "reform" our National Health Service is showing.

Human being in social settings are not Leggo components.

All simple answers are fatuity.

I do not make a case for the breakdown of society. I make a case for a type of society. Your use of "shill", "asshole", "whacko", "yahoo" and the lie I have just exposed about breakdown of society disqualify you from membership of a scientific debate panel.

And placing myself and Io in the company of a past president and several GOP candidates is hardly proof of anything other than political respectability.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 07:48 am
@spendius,
Quote:
You're no lefty
He's too rich to be a lefty anyway . Poverty makes a lefty and coffee clubs make sympathisers out of the middle class . The rich hate the idea of the left...after all, it is out to get them .
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 08:11 am
@Ionus,
According to pom, on another thread, the American left is well tamed. Perhaps it is just as well.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 08:16 am
@spendius,
The USA is more than happy to have a large number of poor, they believe it puts pressure on the population/wealth pyramid from the base up . There is some argument for that being the best method, you just have to be a real heartless bastard and justify the suffering of your fellow citizens all around you . It helps if a lot of them are black .
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 08:48 am
Two quotes from Edgar Allan Poe's Eureka.

Quote:
He who from the top of AEtna casts his eyes leisurely around, is affected chiefly by the extent and diversity of the scene. Only by a rapid whirling on his heel could he hope to comprehend the panorama in the sublimity of its oneness. But as, on the summit of AEtna, no man has thought of whirling on his heel, so no man has ever taken into his brain the full uniqueness of the prospect; and so, again, whatever considerations lie involved in this uniqueness, have as yet no practical existence for mankind.


Quote:
But even of treatises on the really limited, although always assumed as the un limited, Universe of stars, I know none in which a survey, even of this limited Universe, is so taken as to warrant deductions from its individuality. The nearest approach to such a work is made in the "Cosmos" of Alexander Von Humboldt. He presents the subject, however, not in its individuality but in its generality. His theme, in its last result, is the law of each portion of the merely physical Universe, as this law is related to the laws of every other portion of this merely physical Universe. His design is simply synoeretical. In a word, he discusses the universality of material relation, and discloses to the eye of Philosophy whatever inferences have hitherto lain hidden behind this universality. But however admirable be the succinctness with which he has treated each particular point of his topic, the mere multiplicity of these points occasions, necessarily, an amount of detail, and thus an involution of idea, which preclude all individuality of impression.

It seems to me that, in aiming at this latter effect, and, through it, at the consequences -- the conclusions -- the suggestions -- the speculations -- or, if nothing better offer itself, the mere guesses which may result from it -- we require something like a mental gyration on the heel. We need so rapid a revolution of all things about the central point of sight that, while the minutiae vanish altogether, even the more conspicuous objects become blended into one. Among the vanishing minutiae, in a survey of this kind, would be all exclusively terrestrial matters. The Earth would be considered in its planetary relations alone. A man, in this view, becomes mankind; mankind a member of the cosmical family of Intelligences.


Anti-ID is posited on one portion at a time of the "vanishing minutiae". It cannot whirl on its heel and try to grasp the "full uniqueness of the prospect". It has never even thought of doing anything of the kind. One thing at once. Something stationary in the crosswires. Carefully selected. Can't go wrong.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 01:38 pm
Quote:
I think AIDS is caused by weakened immune systems brought on by loss of self-esteem. The Ability to Incubate Deadly ****. It might be argued that the human race is capable of dealing with weak viruses but low self-esteem sets the evolved capacity aside. Do we know whether the euphoria associated with narcotics is not an antidote to HIV which, as I understand it, is all around us. Flu kills poor people more than it does well off people.


"Quick! Dr Brandenfuss! Ve must rush these startling medical findings by Dr Spendius off to Atlanta's Center For Disease Control!
Mach schnell!
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 01:54 pm
@rosborne979,
"Hockey stick: is the derisive term used at the graph for the N hemisphere that showed a pattern shaped like a Hockey stick.It was a graph of recent temperature v year data that was , by some, questioned as to whether it was even correct.

However, my own acceptance of non-anthro based global warming is based upon the actual paleo climate data that seems to be ignored by the anthropogenic global warming folks.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 03:28 pm
@farmerman,
They can't ignore it. But your argument is ridiculous. The presence of your data is irrelevant to data relating to man-made GW. The latter can be real whatever the former data shows. A cyclical natural warming can be compounded by a man made cause. Obviously. And a cyclical natural cooling can be inhibited by it.

You're just trying to justify your own pollution footprint.

It's like saying that if somebody is banging you on the head with a frying pan there is no pain from somebody else kicking your shins at the same time. In a domestic say when the wife and mother-in-law gang up on a bloke. As sometimes happens I gather.

You're as bad as Miller recommending keeping faith with democracy and moaning about a rising anti-science sentiment.

Are you lot all nonnies?

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 04:12 pm
@spendius,
spendi, Don't you even pay attention is what is said before you go into a tangent? You need to re-read farmerman's post, then come back with a more relevant response.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 04:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
One of the reason I dont gather with all the Global warming discussions is just because of that. One person gets all full of himself and starts ignoring the data that the others present and just want space to send up their own smoke screen and to savage others. I dont think that we can, anywhere, keep up a good technical argument without screaming and calling names so Im just liberally applying periods of ignore when someones logic becomes more of an exercise in narcissism.

 

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