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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 04:55 am
@farmerman,
You have "segmented" fm when you dive onto Io's post and avoid mine.

I agreed that American science took men to the moon and returned them but most of them were religious men and read segments from Genesis whilst up there or down there.

In fact I have pointed to such things as the Apollo missions and the shuttle programme to dispute your claim that American science will suffer if evolution is not taught in schools. I think American science will suffer if evolution is taught in schools. And the American economy and social life.

It should be reserved for university biology courses where the materialist despair and the sense of the meaninglessness and pointlessness of existence it necessarily inculcates will only damage a few of the elect.

When are you going to have the courage and the logic of your position and get on with promoting full-blown scientific eugenics. What are you scared of? You can't be half-baked all your life surely?

Segmenting is your zietgeist. The total picture is not on your agenda just as it wasn't at Dover and isn't in NCSE PR.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 06:16 am
@spendius,
I must note that your logic is the same as the Rev Buckland's who extolled the virtues of "being eaten by carnivores being much preferred to the brutish exigencies of the brief meaningless life".
He was a British blowhard as well. Seems you guys travel in packs.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 06:51 am
@farmerman,
Sheesh!!!
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 09:05 am
ANSWERS IN GENESIS UPDATE
Quote:
Noted Creationist Disinvited From National Home School Conference Itinerary
(Dave Bohon, The New American, 28 March 2011)

The founder of the creationist group Answers in Genesis (AIG) and one of the chief architects of the planned “Ark Encounter” creationist museum in Kentucky, has been un-invited from two important home school conferences because of controversial comments he made about another conference speaker. As reported by OneNewsNow.com, the sponsor of the conferences, Great Homeschool Conventions, e-mailed noted creationist Dr. Ken Ham to inform him that he was no longer welcome at scheduled or future events because of “ungodly” and “mean-spirited” statements he had made about the convention and other speakers.

“We believe that what Ken has said and done is un-Christian and sinful,” the event organizers said in their e-mail to Ham, and his “public criticism of the convention itself and other speakers at our convention require him to surrender the spiritual privilege of addressing our home school audience.”

At issue is Ham’s criticism of another regular home school conference speaker, Dr. Peter Enns, whose organization BioLogos Foundation seeks to promote harmony between science and the Christian faith. As opposed to Ham and his organization, Enns and BioLogos do not promote a “young earth” interpretation of the Genesis creation account, which posits that God created the Earth in six 24-hour days, but believe that “evolution, properly understood, best describes God’s work of creation.” The group’s stated mission is to help “the church — and students, in part — develop worldviews ... that allow science and faith to co-exist peacefully.”

Ham, however, believes that Enns’ teachings boil down to a compromise of the scriptural account of creation, and has been openly critical of Enns, even at public presentations. “Ham, who spoke at the Great Homeschool Conventions’ earlier events in Greenville, S.C. and in Memphis, Tenn., had made presentations on how Enns was promoting unbiblical teachings and compromising the faith,” reported the Christian Post. “The AIG founder also took to Facebook to criticize Enns, who was also invited to speak at the conventions to promote a Bible curriculum for home schoolers.”

In a recent posting on his blog, Ham took issue with the Great Homeschool Conferences for inviting Dr. Enns to speak at their events, writing that Enns “does not believe in a historical Adam or historical Fall.... In fact, what he teaches about Genesis is not just compromising Genesis with evolution, it is outright liberal theology that totally undermines the authority of the Word of God. It is an attack on the Word — on Christ.”

As proof of his colleague’s liberal leanings, Ham quoted Enns directly from the BioLogos website as suggesting that “the Adam story could be viewed symbolically as a story of Israel’s beginnings, not as the story of humanity from ground zero.” In one of his own blog postings, Enns writes: “The biblical depiction of human origins, if taken literally, presents Adam as the very first human being ever created. He was not the product of an evolutionary process, but a special creation of God a few thousand years before Jesus — roughly speaking, about 6000 years ago. Every single human being that has ever lived can trace his/her genetic history to that one person.” Enns views such a belief as problematic, “because it is at odds with everything else we know about the past from the natural sciences and cultural remains.”

Ham argued that Enns’ writing and presentations prove that he “accepts what the secular world teaches concerning evolution and millions of years, and it is so obvious this determines how he approaches the Bible.” He concluded that Enns “does not have the same view of inspiration as I do. In fact, he doesn’t have the biblical view of inspiration," which he said was defined by the biblical admonition that all Scripture “is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness’ (2 Timothy 3:16).”

On Facebook Ham warned that home-schooled children were in danger of being exposed to Enns’ erroneous teaching through a curriculum he was selling at the conferences. “Someone needs to stand against the compromise that is pouring into the church from many directions,” he said. He also complained about the decision of the convention’s organizers to pull him and his group from their conferences, noting, “Because we publicly exposed one of their speakers and his curriculum because his beliefs clearly undermine the authority of Scripture, we apparently come under the heading of ‘anti-Christian’ in our actions.”

Ham isn’t the only conservative evangelical leader to challenge the opinions of Enns and BioLogos. Over the past year the Rev. Albert Mohler, head of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, has repeatedly sparred with the group over its apparent compromise on the Genesis account. In November 2010, Mohler accused BioLogos of attempting to “persuade evangelical Christians to embrace some form of evolutionary theory,” and attempting to “convince the evangelical public that an acceptance of evolution is a means of furthering the gospel.”

Mohler charged the group’s spokesmen with leveling their guns “at the Intelligent Design movement, at young earth creationism, and against virtually all resistance to the embrace of evolution,” and with insisting that “the embrace of evolution is necessary if evangelicalism is not to be intellectually marginalized in the larger culture.” The conservative Baptist theologian argued that writers for BioLogos “have repeatedly made the case that we must relinquish the inerrancy of the Bible and accept that the biblical writers worked from a defective understanding of the world and its origins.”

Officials with the home-school conference insisted that like the majority of the attendees at their convention, they agree with Ham and AIG on the biblical account of creation, explaining that Ham was removed as a speaker “for his spirit, not for his message.” Noting the importance of Christian unity in their home school conferences, the event officials explained, “As an invited guest, Dr. Ham’s spirit toward our convention was unkind. Dr. Ham’s spirit toward our attendees was not gracious. Dr. Ham’s spirit toward other speakers was unprofessional. In short, a proud, ungrateful and divisive spirit was projected from Dr. Ham. Regardless of the message, Dr. Ham’s approach sullied the atmosphere of the convention.”

In defending their decision to welcome Dr. Enns and BioLogos Fondation despite their apparent disagreement with the group’s stand on the inerrancy of Scripture, the conference organizers expressed their belief that “Christian scholars should be heard without the fear of ostracism or ad hominem attacks.” They emphasized that “a well-rounded education is not possible without knowing and understanding all sides of an issue. Such a process will, understandably, confirm one in their conviction or persuade them to make a change.”

The convention organizers also announced that they had replaced Ham and AIG with Dr. Jonathan D. Sarfati of Creation Ministries International, an organization that, like AIG, promotes a biblical view of the Earth’s creation.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 09:43 am
There's a certain irony in a controversy such as this at a home school venue, while the creationist lobby proceeds relentlessly against the teaching of sound science in schools.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 11:03 am
@Setanta,
Sarfati is even more mean spirited.Maybe it was a ruse to bring in an even more combative dickhead.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 12:23 pm
It's hard to credit that the last two posts were written by grown men.

Quote:
Religion without science is mere smallmindedness.


Bernard Shaw.

This is a passage from Michael Holroyd's biography of the great man--

Quote:
Science meant two things to Shaw. In its derogatory manifestation it was the algebraic hocus-pocus that had befuddled him at school and hypnotized so many adults. {{such as you lot.}} The codes and rituals of this superstitious system formed a second network of philistine defence after the Bible-smashing advance of Darwinism. There were scientists on both sides in this warfare, and the battle lines teemed with spies and fifth-column agents. Speedily replacing eternity with infinity, astrophysicists were flinging 'millions of eons about in the most lordly manner' or mystically decanting on the 'incredible smallness of the atom' and other fairy tales. Shaw viewed these priests of science as an elite corps of idealists who had corrupted physics and biology, and ingeniously substituted illusory progress for real progress. Using misplaced religious devotion, they had strengthened the philistine's citadel with inflexible scientific axioms and given it a brilliant technological facade. {{dazzling you lot goodstyle}}. Shaw classed these renegade scientists with clairvoyants, diviners, hand readers and slate writers--all 'marvel mongers whose credulity would have dissolved the Middle Ages in a roar of sceptical merriment.

The Shaw who believed that scientific advancement would benefit society was the author of The Irrational Knot whose common-sense hero had been an electrical engineer. {{little heard of that subject on here}}.

The same Shaw had subscribed to Karl Pearson's Biometricka and looked forward to seeing the statistical methods applied to biology widened at the London School of Economics so as to promote a 'scientifically civilized society'. He was also a life member of the Royal Astronomical Society and, in his nineties, would register his belief in the necessity of space travel by joining the British Interplanetary Society. This Shaw classed himself among scientific humanists and expected science to be used for the improvement of agriculture, labour conditions and sanitation. He looked forward to 'scientific suffrage' in our democratic evolution, and to a time when candidates for political office would need to master the mathematics underlying the economic theories of rent and exchange value as one of the tests of political capacity. {{some hopes eh?}}

*
*
Quote:
By 1925 Shaw was speaking of Einstein as the great destroyer of scientific infallibility: 'he has upset the velocity of light, upset the ether, upset gravitation, and generally lit...a fire among the gods of the physicists.


Einstein described Shaw's --

Quote:
impersonal power of artistic expression (and having) blessed and educated all of us.


and he said later that he found Shaw's book--

Quote:
so excellent and so important for political enlightenment (that he would) gladly permit the use of my name for the purpose of spreading his influence.


And even more generous praise which my fed-upness with typing this tripe out prevents me from bothering with knowing what a bunch of dimwits (see 2 posts above) are likely to cast their unseeing eyes across it.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 03:24 pm
Quote:
In 1871, Darwin started work on his newly independent book The Expression of the Emotions, employing the unused material on emotional expression. In this way, Darwin brought his evolutionary theory into close approximation with behavioural science, although many Darwin scholars have remarked on a kind of spectral Lamarckism haunting the text of the Emotions.


There you go. Anti-IDers are closet behaviourists. So closeted most don't even know it. Which means, of course, that anti-ID is conditioned behaviouristically. Faith is too. But the difference is that the former is an individual conditioning whilst the latter is a collective one. The reward system is different. And positive adaptations for the collective may be negative ones for the individual. And vice versa.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 03:48 pm
@farmerman,
John Safarti has written an attempt at countering DAwkins latest book"The Greatest Show on Earth". Safarti's is called, not surprisingly"The Greatest Hoax on Earth". In it, Safarti tries to refute Dawkins points and voluminous data and evidence. I read em both and Im not only not impressed with Safarti's attemmpt, Im amazed at how almost fraudulent hisclaims are. The only thing that stays with me in any readings I do regarding "Scientific Creationism" or ID, is how much actual lying and misrepresentations of facts are used as part of the C/ID arguments. Its as if the C/IDers expect that their readers and their audiences are complete idiots. This could be the case if the Texas legislatures and the AIG had their way. SCience would be a subject of some mad hatters argument, where truth becomes lie.
On Safartis cover is a depiction of two chess pieces (kings). The white one , l;abeled "science" has just toppled the black King labeled "evolution". Howsthat for a turn in the pond. Safarti standing for "Science". Actually, all Safarti has done is to dress his own nest by publishing a "me too" book that rides the coattails of a well written and researched original text.
Its funny that even Dawkins, in his own web site.allows the Safarti book to be presented and Dawkins lets his own readers comment. The comments are well thought out and not too complementary of Safarti.
CAourse, we on A2K knew of this guys subterfuge and underhanded techniques of argument.
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 04:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Are you senile ?

**** for brains says something really stupid :
Quote:
The accuracy of science is of a very high order. For example, it has put more than a dozen men on the moon, and brought them safely home.


I point out the fatalities that prove it is not safe .....and you go on about how they knew what they were doing .....you are going senile, silly female impersonator .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 05:02 pm
@farmerman,
Poor old Gomer the turd . If it wasnt for alcohol he wouldn't have a personality .
Quote:
Set stated that , science was able to trip men to the moon and return them.
Bullshit . typical of your weasely little twists and spins . What he said was :
Quote:
The accuracy of science is of a very high order. For example, it has put more than a dozen men on the moon, and brought them safely home.


Clearly he was emphasising how safe science has made a hazardous journey . May I use your turn of phrase ?
Quote:
This is BS patter that is up there with 911 conspiracy crap



Quote:
YEsterday, he was shouting about how theres no proof that AIDS is related to HIV.
Yet another example of you losing, having it eating away at you and then you burst out how you really won, hoping no-one had actually read that debate . Your ego is very sad . There is a relationship between AIDS and HIV but it is not provable that it is a causative relationship . As usual you understand nothing but have declared yourself the winner . Will you go crying to HS to intervene and protect you this time, you big sook ? Or will you just drink some more ?

Having read the bullshit you sprout about geo, I am convinced you dont know what you are talking about . Anyone can achieve the same result by crushing together a page of a book into a paragraph....very impressive if you like bullshit .

Quote:
he takes a morons route to try to throw monkey wrenches onto the tracks.
Thats a monkeys wrench into the gears, dickhead . Keep drinking excessively and over compensating for your crippled arm . I am sure no one will notice you are over weight and dribbling .

Gomer the Turd must seek help .
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 05:02 pm
@farmerman,
So how is Mr Safarti relevant to the teaching of a wedge for behaviourism, evolution theory, which even Armstrong discredits in his Materialist Theory of Mind, no matter how fraudulent his claims are, no matter how much lying he does, no matter how many facts he misrepresents, no matter how idiotic he expects his readers to be, no matter how much of a Mad Hatter he is, no matter how many truths he makes lies, no matter how many turns in the pond he takes, no matter how much nest dressing he does, no matter how uncomplementary those who visit Dawkins' web site looking for specious justifications for taboo busting are about him, no matter how many subterfuges he uses and no matter how underhanded his techniques of argument are.

What does Mr Safarti have to do with the education of a superpower's 50 million kids?

I can see he might be an easy excuse for fm to rant but that's neither here nor there.

Trolling is trolling no matter how it's dressed up.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 05:03 pm
@tenderfoot,
Good old tenderarse.....care to join in or just run around nipping at heels ?
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 05:10 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
For example, it has put more than a dozen men on the moon, and brought them safely home.


And our brave critical thinkers have singularly, though not surprisingly, failed to address the known fact that they were religious men and gave readings from Genesis when the public were, rightly, glued to their TV sets.

And then they talk about "segmentation" as if it is a fault they don't share.
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 05:13 pm
@spendius,
They mention the awe they felt at the universe rather than much about the science . They dont say a word about how techno it all was, just how awesome the view of the universe was and how it put things in perspective, including science .
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 05:19 pm
@farmerman,
If Mr Safarti was caught on camera shagging a blow up doll would it prove that evolution should be taught to 50 million adolescents?

You are a fool out of the normal range fm. And your supporters are as bad.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 05:24 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Good old tenderarse.....care to join in or just run around nipping at heels ?


I never felt a thing Io. Yapping in the front room window is more like it.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 05:34 pm
@spendius,
Why are these clowns so ignorant of the specifics ? There are many sciences that can still advance even in the worst possible case where everyone believed the world was created 10,000 years ago.....the sciences that would still advance are the ones that would benefit mankind . How is my life measurably better because someone wants to avoid people and look at rocks for a living ? Most sciences do not need evolution and still be able to work effectively at helping humanity .

The alternative is what would our lives be like if everyone was an atheist, a good little Nazi, a good little communist, or a good little capitalist ? Then they would see survival of the fittest on a massive scale .

Which would be worse ?

0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 07:00 pm
I do not like his morality but I do admire his effort to understand logical reasoning!

http://www.youtube.com/user/CultOfDusty#p/u/0/0fBlkeH0Bhw
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 07:17 pm
@farmerman,
I hadn't heard of Safarti until today. I'm entirely certain that this increase in information did not enrich my life. I looked him up. While he does have impressive academic credentials, his point of view mystifies me. How sad.
 

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