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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2011 06:21 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
"OH YEH? WHY CANT WE WANDER AROUND AIMLESSLY LIKE SPENDI WANTS?"


I never said I wanted that. It's just that it's all there is for us to do. . I go to and fro in the earth, and walk up and down in it like the Devil in the Book of Job.

What else is there fm. Constructing an authentic currach from DIY materials and power tools is a bit much though. That's going backwards and forwards in the earth and running around like a blue-arsed fly in it. Goodstyle.

I sincerely hope that you are the worst of my fears. That's better than winning the lottery.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2011 06:28 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
they are obscure and mostly irrelevant.
You are doing a lousy job of repeating something. You thought you could just add your little but extra and no-one would notice how underhanded you are...nice try, fail.

Quote:
If you feel that he is on topic, why not just abandon this thread and start one of your own.
Ahhh...because it is on topic ? Do you usually contradict yourself or only publicly ?

Quote:
Hes stated it in his opening remarks (which when you asked "WHERE DOES IT SAY THAQT"? I show you and then your rebuttal is "OH YEH? WHY CANT WE WANDER AROUND AIMLESSLY LIKE SPENDI WANTS?"
Very Happy Gee, you really dont want to lie about what I said, do you ?

Quote:
Its not worth my time, Ive been fair with you.
Right up to where you start to lose.....
Quote:

your incessant schizo references and addled positions.......once in a while you do seem lucid.
Now which is it ? Incessant schizo or once in a while lucid ? Dont you think there is some contradiction there ? You get yourself into these predicaments by exaggerating and lying about the other position and then hope no-one notices.

Quote:
Ill just avoid any further responses to your racial slurs.
You are xenophobic but anyone who points this out is racist.....interesting logic your using there, bub.
Quote:

Do you dislike me cause I challenge you/ (That seems to be the basis of spendis fear of me.) OR do you hate me because Im of another race?
Challenge all you want, that is what I am here for....you imagine I hate you because I produce bad feelings in you about you. Rather than blame your own behaviour and initiate change, you think I hate you. I dont hate you.

I do, however, dislike your weaselly crawling out of a position by lying and attempting to confuse the matter. Many reasonable arguments have been raised and you will not meet them head on. You blow smoke and duck for cover. That is rather annoying.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2011 06:44 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus I should not have questioned your response that you had made about wondering if we should have less freedom!

I must have been tired or Drunk because I find nothing wrong with wondering, because I would consider this to be critical thinking!

I do like it at times how these threads get off course because much can be learned!



Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2011 06:55 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
I do like it at times how these threads get off course because much can be learned!
I want to be dead the day before I stop learning, it is such an important part of my life.

Quote:
Ionus I should not have questioned your response that you had made about wondering if we should have less freedom!
Not at all. Your politeness is refreshing, if only because of it being unusual here. My point was mainly whilst people demand more freedom, it is not every freedom that can be justified by a cost-benefit analysis. The assumption seems to be more is better and there is no down side. I would like to see a more critical analysis to counter the historical push from not enough freedom to where we are today.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 05:05 am
I think that fm, and possibly others, have come under the influence, either directly or indirectly, of H.G.Wells and his "New Republicans" in A Modern Utopia. It is rather attractive to control freaks. The benevolent distatorship of voluntary noblemen called the Samurai, a league of sane and superior beings who can transcend the laws of nature through self sacrifice and dedication and who preside as social engineers over the ideal perfected state. One might guess that the NCSE, and its lickspittals and lackeys, fully support such a scientific and efficient mode of organising us all like they learned to do with their toy soldiers in the formative years.

Wells himself told Beatrice Webb, a leading light of the Fabians through her father's somewhat questionable money, "The chapters on the Samurai will pander to all your worst instincts."

This early populariser of the genre of science fiction, a baleful influence on frustrated geniuses, was thought by some to have been so spoiled by living in a world of his own invention, peopled by his own puppets, that he was incapable of tolerating the opinions and activities of independent individuals.

In his defence he lived in that strange time when the solidity of Victorian tradition was being rapidly overtaken by the complexities of the 20th century and his predatory sexuality was eager to put old fashioned monogamous relationships onto a home comforts footing. And why not eh lads?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 05:12 am
Why does Barbara Forrest's Wikipedia entry start in 1974? That's unusual. It's as if she has no childhood.

And we all know how much emphasis the scientists of the psychological realm place on the childhood.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 05:24 am
@Ionus,
I wonder what that whining noise is . Oh yeh, Ionus needs a hug and validation. everybody lies except except him (he who tried to convince me that they found Trex DNA somewhere ). He He He He.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 07:52 am
@farmerman,
You really have to grow up and move on. Living in the past, esp by hoping to win an argument you lost by giving it the briefest of mentions, is not only bad form it says volumes about your childish petulant nature.

Quote:
everybody lies
There you have it. An atheist, self declared "scientist" who never does research, and someone who will never tell you the truth. Are you proud of yourself ?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 08:38 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
by hoping to win an argument you lost by giving it the briefest of mentions, is not only bad form it says volumes about your childish petulant nature.

This is a baldface lie. You were called out on your bullshit about Dino DNA and you are trying some "reverse blamegame". I think everyone who recalls the posts in question will understand what a petulant small minded liar you are.




Quote:
everybody lies except except him (he who tried to convince me that they found Trex DNA somewhere ). He He He He.
Heres the entire quote that you "mined" to find something. Quote mining is also a habit of te chronic liar.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 10:26 am
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
Creationists Target Texas Science Classes
(Texas Freedom Network, Insider Blog, February 9, 2011)

Politics and personal agendas dominated the Texas State Board of Education’s process for adopting new science curriculum standards for public schools two years ago. Now our first look at the developing process for approving science instructional materials based on those standards has increased our concerns that politics will continue to trump education.

The State Board of Education‘s faction of anti-science fanatics is clearly hoping to stack teams reviewing the science materials that publishers will submit at the end of February. A Texas Freedom Network review of current candidates for those review teams has identified more than a dozen who have been outspoken critics of evolutionary science, self-identified creationists or educators at evangelical Christian schools. Those candidates include nominees from state board members as well as individuals who have applied on their own to serve on the teams. Under a new schedule made available this week by the Texas Education Agency, those teams will meet in June to review the proposed science materials.

TEA released a list of more than 170 candidates for the science review teams at the January state board meeting. (The agency is still adding to the list.) At the same meeting, TEA staff said each review team — one for each of four high school courses, including biology — would likely have three to five members. Because most of the names on the long list of candidates are legitimate science educators and scholars, you might assume the odds are good that review teams will have very few (if any) anti-science activists. You shouldn’t.

The state board’s creationists have already indicated that they will insist that TEA put their nominees on the review teams. That demand would create a dilemma for TEA: focus on putting qualified people on the teams or submit to the political wishes of board members to stack the teams with anti-evolution activists promoting personal agendas. We won’t know until later in the spring who will actually serve on those teams.

A number of the creationism activists on the list of review team candidates have testified in the past before the State Board of Education in favor of teaching so-called “weaknesses” of evolution in science classrooms. Some are more prominent anti-evolution activists. Here is a sample of some of the anti-evolution candidates on the TEA list:

Ide Trotter (applied on his own to be on a review team)
During the debate over proposed new biology textbooks for Texas public schools in 2003, Trotter was a spokesperson for the absurdly misnamed Texans for Better Science Education, a militant creationist group. Trotter runs his own investment management company and served as dean of business and professor of finance at Dallas Baptist University. He claims that major scientific discoveries over last century have actually made evolutionary science harder to defend: “The ball is rolling and it’s going downhill. There are not enough forces on the side of Darwinism to keep pushing it back uphill forever.”

David Shormann (nominated by board member Barbara Cargill, R-The Woodlands)
Shormann, who has a doctorate in limnology (the study of inland waters), is an outspoken evolution denier who has homeschooled his children. Here is how he describes his blog, Studying His Word and His Works:
“You’ll also find more serious topics, such as how to teach math and science from a Christian foundation, topics discussing why creationism, not evolutionism, is the best way to interpret life’s origins, how Christians should interpret God’s command to ‘take dominion’ (Genesis 1:28), plus much more.”

Walter L. Bradley (nominated by Gail Lowe, R-Lampasas, board chair)
Bradley has a Ph. D. in Materials science and is a professor of engineering at Baylor University. He believes that there is scientific evidence for the existence of God and a “designed universe.” A 1993 article he co-wrote for The American Biology Teacher journal, “Origins of Life & Evolution in Biology Textbooks — A Critique,” suggests that students in science classrooms should learn about supernatural explanations:
“Evidence for the origin and evolution of life should be presented fairly and without distortion; but evidence that is not in accord with natural processes as an explanation should be clearly presented as well.”

Thomas Henderson (nominated by board member David Bradley, R-BeaumontBuna)
Henderson has a master’s of science degree from the Institute for Creation Research and bachelor’s degrees in physics and mathematics from the University of Texas at Austin. He is a retired NASA engineer who promotes “young Earth creationism” in churches, Sunday school classrooms, on creationism websites and in other forums. From one of his online essays:
“As a creationist, I believe naturalism in the sciences to be science-fiction. It is distorting and mis-directing education in many fields of both the natural sciences and the social sciences or humanities.”

Wendy Billock (applied on her own to be on a review team)
Billock has a master’s of science degree from the Institute for Creation Research and a Ph. D. in biology from Loma Linda University, a Seventh-day Adventist Christian institution in Southern California. Loma Linda’s biology Ph. D. program has a heavy emphasis on religion, with religious coursework making up nearly a fifth of the science program’s academic requirements. She currently teaches at Biola University, a Christian school provides a “biblically centered education” for its students.

Daniel Romo (nominated by Gail Lowe)
Romo is a professor of chemistry at Texas A&M and is listed among “Darwin Doubters of the Twentieth and Twenty-First Century.”

If any of these names — or the names of other evolution deniers we have identified — appear on TEA’s final list of review team members, then it will be clear that science education is once again taking a backseat to politics in Texas.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 10:44 am
Poor Texas . . . poor Texan students. Their futures are blighted by the politics of religion. In the real world, they will suffer, and all for the conceits of religious lunatics who don't give a rap for the consequences of their political campaign.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 12:15 pm
@Setanta,
The ones pushing evolution are the cause. People don't want it. What academics want is not what ordinary people want. Ivory towers are not public education. There are many things in the ivory towers that the half-baked A2K evolutionists would run from. Fast.

The message has been loud and clear for 150 years. Evolutionists are completely stupid for not expecting a backlash. The nearer they get to success the stronger the backlash will be.

Using Ignore is disastrous. They thought they could bang out the truly awful severeties of science and put dissent on Ignore. What fools. And who would put fools in charge of education. As if mass education has not always been a function and a tool of politics.

And evolution is the politics of atheism. Libya is a secular state. Mao's China. Stalin's Russia.

Quote:
There is even widespread belief that Kim Il-sung "created the world", and Kim Jong-il can "control the weather"


"Poor Texas " (rubbish assertion), ". poor Texan students" (another rubbish assertion), "Their futures are blighted by the politics of religion." (and another rubbish assertion), "In the real world, they will suffer" ( a further rubbish assertion) and "and all for the conceits of religious lunatics who don't give a rap for the consequences of their political campaign" (3 rubbish assertions rolled into one ridiculous, invidious, ignorant and self-serving dollop of infantile, milk-fed, yellow nappy filler. And composed in the appropriate style. Imagine that teaching your kids.

Did Judge Jones give them the rope to go nuts with knowing full well that they would go too far? It's the only reason I can think of to maintain my natural respect for judges.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 01:33 pm
@spendius,
Are you speaking for everybody, spendi? Since when did you become the spokesman for "everybody?" Your ego needs to drop a few notches.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 01:34 pm
@Setanta,
I visited the blog "Studying his words and...". It looks at science ass backwards. The claims that the blog makes are nicely presented as a comfit so not get anyone riled up. Belief in the suprenatural drive the authors reality and thats the dumbness of these guys who call themselves "scientists" and believers of the scientific method and Fundamentalists at the same time.Funny thing is that they feel that CAtholics are a cult of satan.

With gys like this in the Teaxass committee, would guarantee that theres gonna be another court test. I hope this **** is subject to referenda. The voters in other states recently have been showing some good common sense,(with the exception of Louisiana)
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 01:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It never entered my head ci. that I was speaking for everybody. Where did you get a silly idea like that from and if you are prone to silly ideas such as that is why don't you ask others the same question?

I imagine a lot of Texans might agree with me but I don't know. It takes an anti-IDer to talk of a state of 270,000 square miles with almost 25,000,000 people in it like that.

I'd rather Setanta be on your side than mine. You're welcome to spokespersons of his stamp.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 02:34 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
It looks at science ass backwards.


Not a bad idea from time to time. Doing the "simpering come-and-get-me" look is all very well when operating one's electric toothbrush or when powering up the systems for a Superbowl but there is such a thing as a dialectic. Science is feminine. It aims to please. It is seductive. Has temptations. Dresses itself up. Will brook no insubordination. Scientific American should put a horn-rimmed glassed, starch white coated female scientist on the front cover staring challengingly at the camera.

The Bible says to resist temptations. Would you say that was a peer-reviewed, critically thought out, scientific principle. "Lead us not into temptation" you must have recited a few times.

That's what fm doesn't like about me. I provide glimpses of science bare ass backwards and bending over as seen in the beam of my miner's lamp. Really. I've lived and breathed with them for 30 years. And religiously avoided spending my leisure in their company without an excellent reason. Such as getting a recipe for cherry jam when cherries started fruiting at a faster rate than we had been led to believe. Or lending me The Naked and the Dead which they couldn't possibly understand.

Watching the Superbowl I daresay 9/10ths of the world, probably more but I'm always conservative, would give a very great deal to be Texans. If I was exiled I would choose Texas before Canada. And before Pennsylvania.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 05:00 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
You were called out on your bullshit about Dino DNA and you are trying some "reverse blamegame".
You are just a sad little man with a chip on his shoulder. You think you can bully anyone...I have read what you say to students who want help with their homework. I think everyone who recalls the post in question will understand what a petulant small minded liar you are.

Quote:
Heres the entire quote that you "mined" to find something.
Quote mining ???? The sheer ignorance and stupidity of you. You constantly say I said their was dino DNA despite knowihng that to be an outright lie....if anyone wants to see how stupidly you dig yourself into a hole and then use every weasily trick you can think of to spin your way out, they should have a look where you were arguing with Bill about Polynesian boat building. One pathetic blunder after another interspersed with stupidity such as when you say one thing you really mean another....

No wonder Grant is your avatar...are you aware Grant had a drinking problem and a chip on his shoulder ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 05:03 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Quote:
by hoping to win an argument you lost by giving it the briefest of mentions, is not only bad form it says volumes about your childish petulant nature.
This is a baldface lie.
So you dont hope to win an argument by giving it the briefest of mentions ? The matter was put to rest except for you obsessing over it. Having a physical problem is writing cheques your brain and ego cant cash.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 05:24 pm
@Ionus,
I merely asked you do you have any evidence that T rex DNA has been found anywhere? Im curious since you make these statements , perhaps you can "cash em" (I think not, youre bankrupt). I have backed up my arguments on this subject, youve run around on periphery and have just been trying to act intelligent by employing some "fashionable Nonsense".

In your case , youve been using pseudo scientific terms without knowing what the hell youre even talking about. In that youre a pupil of spendi whose been lying for several years that hes a scientist (he said hes a chemist and not a pharmacist).That was a baldface lie cause he doesnt even recognize the simplest pf chem concepts that were thrown at him by another poster. So, I used that definition of Bricmont to decide to ignore him. I had you on ignore until someone requested I give you another chance because you are a "wounded warrior". I dont know whether that was bullshit but I accepted it and tried being nice and reasonable but your constant insults at me (and quite a few others who dont buy your crap and occasionally challenge you) warrants no respect in return.
.
You are a pathetic little **** , so I bid you a nice goodbye and you can misquote and mine my posts all you wish. Far as Im concerned you aint worth any further powder.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 05:28 pm
@farmerman,
Would that I could give your post a dozen thumbs up.
 

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