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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 05:29 pm
@edgarblythe,
Maybe the postings of Ionus as he spills his beliefes and confusing positions are an example of what most public school teachers think. They are either

1Not confident enough in their own area of teaching or

2They are afraid to shake up the "social structure" of the community for fear of reprisal .

Sciences arent unapproachable and a good teacher , skilled in the field, shouldnt have to skirt the issues just because some of the towny people believe that evolution leads to atheism and cancer. Ignorance should not be tolerated especially by the professional teaching staff.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 05:30 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
60 percent of teachers skirt the contentious issue by, for example, telling students that they should learn about evolution because it will be on a state test, but they don't need to "believe in it."
Thats exactly how one gets through Uni. Copy what they tell you or they wont pass you. Accept what they tell you for exams but you dont have to believe it.

How would science progress if everyone believed what they were told ?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 05:30 pm
@edgarblythe,
I wonder whether the 28% of teachers had any more adevanced training or an advanced degree IN THE SCIENCE (not teaching certificate box tops)
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 05:33 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Ignorance should not be tolerated especially by the professional teaching staff.
I thought you had lectured at Uni ? You would be well aware of the ignorance in the teaching staff. You would also be aware of the need for students to conform to pass assessment.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 05:37 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Doesnt it follow that if you believe evolution is the way life has survived then straying from its principles is endangering our species ?


Are you saying that we should NOT try to control our environment? Because we CAN do something doesnt negate anything .
ANyway, I dont "believe in " evolution . Its as much a fact as surface chemistry (I cant see collapsing double layers but I can measure the results). I conclude through evidence, I dont believe in evolution because belief implies that faith is involved because I dont have enough underlying evidence to support the fact.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 05:45 pm
@farmerman,
You have made it plainly obvious on many previous occasions that faith in evolution is exactly what you have. How else could it clash with faith in religion ?

Dont answer a question with a question. I repeat "Doesnt it follow that if you believe evolution is the way life has survived then straying from its principles is endangering our species ?"
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 05:51 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
How would science progress if everyone believed what they were told
SCience rarely rreinvents itself, and when it does, the reinvention is always as a result of new evidence from existing methodologies. I can speak for continental drift because I was in grad school when the theory was established but entire new realms of supportive data were not yet in place.
Chucking out the "Geosynclinal" theory of mountain building in favor of continental drift did NOT negate the original data that showed the geomorphic features of the planet through time. It merely became an argument of how the energy was transmitted and propogated. Up until the late 1950's all basin formation was believed to be from vertical forces, after the 1960's (after enough data proved that the continents were drifting) it was easy to see how the process really worked.

Quantum chemistry did not negate reactions or the main structure of chemicals.

NO aspec ts of biology have been thrown away (well maybe Creation SCience) as evidence for evolution was being compiled. To deny it is what Id consider Midieval.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 05:57 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
I thought you had lectured at Uni ? You would be well aware of the ignorance in the teaching staff. You would also be aware of the need for students to conform to pass assessment.
I believe you are confusing Ignorance (which with a cap I is what we base our researches upon). To accept ignorance of a subjects bones and structure, doesnt allow one to participate in any higher research or teaching. 99.99% of students need to be taught the basics of a subject in order to qualify for entrance into the realm of the "Big I"
There are a very few who, by being gifted, are able to conduct meaningful reasearch as a science colleague while they are still in their early teens. But even these kids must learn the facts and calcs and the structures of the subject they follow.


At a university, we spend more time inviting research funding than teaching. We teach grad students by inviting them to participate in this research. (Thats how I learned my craft) However, the basic rules of the science are gotten in the undergrad level. If you feel that many scientists are ignorant (in that they are deficient in their fields), these possibilities have ways of making themselves recognized and dealt with. If a tenured faculty publishes bogus research, that faculty member would be disciplined and could even be terminated by special circumstances .
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:14 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
the reinvention is always as a result of new evidence from existing methodologies.
That is really stretching existing methodologies. Everything is built on something. There are many instances where building on something has hindered progress. My point is that stifling imagination is already a part of education, many lecturers compound it by insisting one theory is accurate and supporters of alternates are to be marked down. As having lectured yourself, you must acknowledge that this is what far too many lecturers are guilty of.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:16 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
We teach grad students by inviting them to participate in this research.
You mean they get lesser grades if they dont......it is called slave labour and brainwashing.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:17 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
If a tenured faculty publishes bogus research, that faculty member would be disciplined and could even be terminated by special circumstances .
Its not about teaching facts, it is about passing on bias because you are in a position of power.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:21 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Compassion and empathy, same as everyone else.


Not true. Those are virtues of Christianity. Maybe others have them but by no means "everyone".
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:25 pm
@farmerman,
In the course of a lifetime, I have met many teachers who did not seem to know a whole lot. Not just science teachers, but generally speaking. Since I did not attend a university, I can't go really high up in my associations, however.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:25 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
"Students are being cheated out of a rich science education".


The whole position is based on the assertion "cheated". Accept that and everything else follows like night does day. Same with "better".

He's a professor!!!! Good grief.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:29 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
My point is that stifling imagination is already a part of education, many lecturers compound it by insisting one theory is accurate and supporters of alternates are to be marked down. As having lectured yourself, you must acknowledge that this is what far too many lecturers are guilty of
I believe you are engaging in gross generalization. DO we have some poor teachers/ YEP, do we have poor reserchers, ALso YEP. BUt a student is usually in no position to determine what is good or bad until they master a basic set of skills.
You seem to deny the basic skills development. I guess I dont have anything I can add to your thought process. I certainly dont share it, I cantsee the "students" developing their curricula in highly technical subjects. In otherwords, I will teach students everything THEY know about a smesters subject, Not everything I know. As soon as they develop the slkill set and begin theior own investigations (we have honors and undergard theses requirements). The student doing an undergrad thesis will soon become THE ranking expert on that particular piece of research, even though he may have been assisting me in a larger project.
Ive been redirected in my own reserach projects by a students findings in their own studies. Thats the way science most usually works. A good teacher will always seek to have his students be at l;east as competent as he and hopefully better.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:30 pm
@spendius,
Spendius I do think that he is speaking the truth! What is so awful about truth?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:37 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
BUt a student is usually in no position to determine what is good or bad until they master a basic set of skills.
I think you have missed my argument. A basic set of skills includes questioning everything. Including good and bad is very subjective to the lecturer. Including everything is an important part of the learning process and produces a better mind in the long run.

Quote:
A good teacher will always seek to have his students be at l;east as competent as he and hopefully better.
Agreed but how do we make more good teachers ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:39 pm
@farmerman,
May I draw your attention to a question I think is very important to the topic ? You have avoided it so far....

"Doesnt it follow that if you believe evolution is the way life has survived then straying from its principles is endangering our species ?"
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:43 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Since I did not attend a university, I can't go really high up in my associations, however.
Dont worry about Uni...I have met more arrogance and stupidity at Uni then I ever saw in the average man. It is only the educated who put such high emphasis on an education's ability to produce correctness.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:44 pm
@Ionus,
Do you think that we are straying away from evolution? If so please give examples.
 

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