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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jan, 2011 12:21 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
ANYBODY (even gunga) know of any , ANY Creationist discoveries???


Yes--Western civilisation and Faustian science.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jan, 2011 12:25 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
A freshman state senator from southeastern Oklahoma and a four-term state representative from Oklahoma City are taking another run at Charles Darwin.


Here's a run around Darwin for those with sufficient interest, a reasonable attention span and a light-hearted disposition.

http://www.online-literature.com/george_bernard_shaw/back-to-methuselah/1/

Select Preface.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jan, 2011 01:52 pm
@spendius,
They've failed before they even begin. They're too ignorant to know any difference.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jan, 2011 03:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Who?

What grounds have you for asserting their ignorance?

Is there any chance of you actually saying something with meaning? You cannot, in grown up company, answer the argument of someone by declaring them ignorant. If everybody did that debate would be futile. Especially if witnesses to the debate believed every assertion as you are obviously expecting us to believe your's. Such witnesses would become disorientated from the confusion and society a smoking ruin.

Can you not get the point that assertions are useless without physical coercion or the threat of it?

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jan, 2011 04:21 pm
I noticed earlier that fm buys seeds for his starter veggies from the nursuries of a fundamentalist religious cult of some extravagance in preference to the scientifically produced offerings of the large stores.

Isn't that rather against his own priciples and doesn't it also point to the consequences of a rigidly scientific approach? He is benefitting from the fruits of a strongly religious orientation and eschewing the fruits of science. And implying that we all should do the same given the chance.

Just as I claimed he would promote Ark Encounters if it trebled the value of his land here he is promoting Amish veggie seeds and whatever use the Amish put the profits to. Bigger churches, more elaborate ritual and enhanced procreation are three aspects of that which immediately spring to mind.

One might imagine the Catholic Church being not much larger than the Amish as a force in the world at one time and prospering precisely because it, like the Amish, was selected in by buyers.

fm talks the talk but when he walks he goes in another door.

It got me wondering whether the scientific advice to remove all but three of the spritts (sprouts) on seed potatoes before planting is followed by the Amish.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jan, 2011 06:34 pm
@spendius,
Are you trying to say that you are a sociopath? Please do not take this in a hateful way if you are or not! Even if you are it is not meant to be hateful!
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 06:00 am
@reasoning logic,
How could I be trying to say that? I was emphasising social conscience and moral responsibility. I was pointing at the general idea that anti-IDers are benefitting from the consequences of religion and at the same time attacking it without bothering to explain the consequences of their stated alternative which, in this trivial case, are poor quality veggie seeds as stated. Not by me btw.

fm was praising the consequences of a religious lifestyle and denigrating the consequences of a scientific system whilst doing the opposite in his other posts. And actions speak louder than words.

Will you explain how my post could remotely be considered to betray sociopathic leanings?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 06:31 am
@spendius,
These people may be able to shed some light on things for those who have a interest in truth! A very short video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV4_lVTVa6k
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 06:52 am
@reasoning logic,
Yes but, If Evolution were true, we shouldnt find a human skull from deep in the coal measures of PA as was reported in this ongoing research from 1997 and rereported the past two weeks from a systematic evaluation done in Taiwan.It appears that they HAVE found human skulls in the coal seams. This is really a problem for me, Im gonna now change over to belief in Creation Science and ID becasuse heres a guy from the NUMBER 7 Coal in Mahanoy City .
Never have such a death grip on your pet theories so that you cant adapt to new information.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 07:51 am
Quote:
Ancient body clock discovered that helps to keep all living things on time
(University of Cambridge Press Release, January 26, 2011)

The mechanism that controls the internal 24-hour clock of all forms of life from human cells to algae has been identified by scientists.

Not only does the research provide important insight into health-related problems linked to individuals with disrupted clocks - such as pilots and shift workers - it also indicates that the 24-hour circadian clock found in human cells is the same as that found in algae and dates back millions of years to early life on Earth.

Two new studies out tomorrow, 27 January, in the journal Nature from the Universities of Cambridge and Edinburgh give insight into the circadian clock which controls patterns of daily and seasonal activity, from sleep cycles to butterfly migrations.

One study, from the Institute of Metabolic Science at the University of Cambridge, has for the first time identified 24-hour rhythms in red blood cells. This is significant because circadian rhythms have always been assumed to be linked to DNA and gene activity, but - unlike most of the other cells in the body - red blood cells do not have DNA.

Akhilesh Reddy, from the University of Cambridge and lead author of the study, said: "We know that clocks exist in all our cells; they're hard-wired into the cell. Imagine what we'd be like without a clock to guide us through our days. The cell would be in the same position if it didn't have a clock to coordinate its daily activities.

"The implications of this for health are manifold. We already know that disrupted clocks - for example, caused by shift-work and jet-lag - are associated with metabolic disorders such as diabetes, mental health problems and even cancer. By furthering our knowledge of how the 24-hour clock in cells works, we hope that the links to these disorders - and others - will be made clearer. This will, in the longer term, lead to new therapies that we couldn't even have thought about a couple of years ago."

For the study, the scientists, funded by the Wellcome Trust, incubated purified red blood cells from healthy volunteers in the dark and at body temperature, and sampled them at regular intervals for several days. They then examined the levels of biochemical markers - proteins called peroxiredoxins - that are produced in high levels in blood and found that they underwent a 24-hour cycle. Peroxiredoxins are found in virtually all known organisms.

A further study, by scientists working together at the Universities of Edinburgh and Cambridge, and the Observatoire Oceanologique in Banyuls, France, found a similar 24-hour cycle in marine algae, indicating that internal body clocks have always been important, even for ancient forms of life.

The researchers in this study found the rhythms by sampling the peroxiredoxins in algae at regular intervals over several days. When the algae were kept in darkness, their DNA was no longer active, but the algae kept their circadian clocks ticking without active genes. Scientists had thought that the circadian clock was driven by gene activity, but both the algae and the red blood cells kept time without it.

Andrew Millar of the University of Edinburgh's School of Biological Sciences, who led the study, said: "This groundbreaking research shows that body clocks are ancient mechanisms that have stayed with us through a billion years of evolution. They must be far more important and sophisticated than we previously realised. More work is needed to determine how and why these clocks developed in people - and most likely all other living things on earth - and what role they play in controlling our bodies."

Additional funding for the studies was provided by the Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council, the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council, the Medical Research Council, the French Agence Nationale de la Recherche, and the National Institute of Health Research.


This is especially interesting to me. The only job I ever had in science was a part-time job for Professor Frank Brown of Northwestern University. Every afternoon for four years, I spent two hours recording data from experiments that he set up in the morning. Professor Brown was a pioneer in the study of chronobiology.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 07:55 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
A segment of the American population who (sic) for religious reasons (an assertion) have never been able to accomodate modern science (they live in caves and dress in skins) and even most (ah-ah "most" eh) aspects of the modern world (not specified which aspects or where located) ---they reject specifically evolution ( a neat turn in the argument) and.....they are really (really?) trying to work the country back....to bring the country back (sic) to a state of God blah blah.


Three separate segments of video if you notice the soft focus fade out/fade in tricks.

If that impresses you rl it certainly doesn't me. It begs the question of social consequences as do the other speakers. They also maintain the usual stance of defining science as a part of science and ignoring those sciences which it suits them to ignore. As if "religious reasons" have no source in practical organisation.

fm's link requires us to take on trust what it says. Maybe it is in support of the hypothesis that there have been other advanced civilisations in a past so remote as to have been destroyed and recycled by return to the mantle and volcanic activity. If there is no return to the mantle the earth ought to be hollow by now from volcanic action over unimaginable periods of time.

Do you accept that "mood" can affect metabolism and cell function in individuals as well as social organisation in collectives. And that religions are mood creators?

Whilst useful individual moods might be created by high profile preaching of science it does not mean that the mood is transmitted to those preached at, the vast majority, on whom it might have a negative effect in terms of confusion and a sense of powerlessness.

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 08:02 am
@farmerman,
All that is needed is faith and you can believe in any thing! Now let us pray ab0ut it.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 08:29 am
@reasoning logic,
Im serious as a heart attack!
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 09:07 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
. Every afternoon for four years, I spent two hours recording data from experiments that he set up in the morning.


That's a gopher's job wande. No science is required. One doesn't need to have the faintest idea what the data means.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 09:12 am
@spendius,
What is so bad about truth Spendius? What kind of social consequences are you afraid of that will come from truth?
Could it be that people will no longer be spiritually dead but instead they will be counscious of things for what they are?
They will no longer be blind to lies that people spread" instead they will see. They will no longer be deaf to words of wisdom, "They will be able to hear and understand logical reasoning,
They will be able to walk threw life with out all of the stumbling and cripling effect that ignorance brings
Would it be better that they stay in a delusional state and keep looking for signs instead of facts?
The only sign that they will get is that of jonah "fish stories! lies

What needs to take place for people to know the truth is for people question their own frame of reference.

People need to change from the idea of baptizing with water and confessing their sins to questioning themselves and and all of what they have learned.

questioning every thing has an effect on ones mind, "it changes it" kind of the way the spirits that you drink in the pub do, "they make you behave differently
The truth is like a spirt also, not the kind that you drink at pub but a holly spirit.

So turn the water into spirit and learn the truth Spendius. amen
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 09:25 am
@farmerman,
I never saw any information on these finds before today. Need time to absorb and see what else turns up.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 09:37 am
@edgarblythe,
It goesback to 1996-7 and was lately ressurected by the guy in Tiwan who refuted all the geologists from CAlagary who claimed the skull and the fingerbones were Concretions.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 09:44 am
@farmerman,
I hope the most competent people are at work on this. I want to see where all the evidence leads without interference from any quarter.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 10:42 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
What is so bad about truth Spendius? What kind of social consequences are you afraid of that will come from truth?


Anarchy. Total and endless if your ideal is continued with. Which it won't be.

What truths are you talking about? Attacking beliefs is not truth.
Proxima
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 11:00 am
@wandeljw,
I remember something about speration of the church and the state. While we are at it. Why not teach kids that god will kill them if they don't believe in christianity.
0 Replies
 
 

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