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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 01:58 am
nope.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 05:07 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
The statement of which is follwoed by one pge of spendi de-rail. Am I the only one who sees the irony in that?


The idea that I de-rail the thread is an assertion. I will assert that you de-rail the thread. In fact I know you do and the 7 year long refusal to deal with the consequences (or implications) problem is the proof.

The educational system exists to produce desired consequences. Some would argue that efficient child minding is the main one. Bernard Shaw and Ivan Illich for example. Or teaching people to be a able to read and write and add up. Or keeping young people out of the workforce in order to artificially reduce the unemployment numbers which some call an extended infant dependency. Or jobs for the teaching profession and others in the business. Or conditioning the young to be good Americans.

All discussion about the teaching of evolution to adolescents which takes no account of the consequences is de-railing.

Will someone provide a brief outline of the points to be covered in the teaching of evolution in a school curriculum.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 05:22 am
A poster called Krumple wrote this on the "Married & kissed my husband's friend" thread--

Quote:
My advice is probably not one that most here would support but I'm going to say it anyways because from my perspective you have not done anything wrong.

If your husband is not giving you the attention you need then by all means what's so wrong with finding it somewhere else? I say there is absolutely nothing wrong with what you did. If your husband would have been giving you the attention then chances are you wouldn't have any need to look elsewhere for it.

This is why I don't like the idea of marriage or monogamy because humans just are not cut out for it on emotional levels despite what they try to argue. There is absolutely nothing within our lives that we take solely and live with, nothing. Except when it comes to relationships we try to claim that they should be taken that way. Rarely does it ever work, and the only time it does is when both people are providing the needs the other requires. Once that fails, the marriage is doomed.

You have needs and if those needs are not met then by all means you should be allowed to find it without being criticized for it. But people want to live in fantasy land and assume that people never change and needs are always met. And that if you change or your needs change that it is some how your fault for allowing that to happen. Or that you should just suck it up and not change or deal with your needs in some other way. It doesn't work yet they will insist that it does.

Be honest. Tell your husband. Be honest with your self too. If the marriage fails it is not your fault alone, it is his as well for not upholding his half of the bargain. The truth is not always easy to face but we should face it otherwise we may end up in a situation that makes us miserable just because we didn't want to face it.


I think we all know what a Christian response is to that. How can an evolutionist disagree with the post?

The consequences of teaching evolution would produce a tendency to agree with the post in the students. And the consequences of that are legion.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 05:33 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Gee, am I the only one who sees spendi's off-track comments as nonsensical and without any value except entertainment?


I see them as having no value and so have not been reading them.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 05:51 am
"Off track", "no value" and "de-rail" are merely devious and infantile expressions intended to contain the discussion within the limits of the asserters purview so that no threat is experienced to his settled position and to allow him to continually reinforce the position from which he starts at the expense of any other position. A bigot's usual procedure and 100% unscientific.

A circularity is very reassuring.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 09:00 am
@spendius,
"I think we all know what a Christian response is to that. How can an evolutionist disagree with the post?"

What does evolution have to do with marriage? Absolutely nothing. Your argument is nonsensical. There are plenty of people who follow and understand that evolution is a fact that do not support my idea of relationships. But of course you couldn't acknowledge that fact because then you would have nothing to stand on in your empty statements.

"The consequences of teaching evolution would produce a tendency to agree with the post in the students. And the consequences of that are legion."

What are the consequences? Hell? Isn't that the only thing you have to base your arguments on? Submit or else my god will leave you tortured for the rest of eternity while you bathe in bliss for believing in nonsense? If that is really how this existence works, I want no part in it. So what ever my fate becomes, weather nothing happens to me or I am sent to hell, ill be thankful that I don't have to spend the rest of time with a person like you. So I support the decision to allow me to go to hell however I don't believe in such childish things. I only wonder why you still do.
spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 10:12 am
It is quite obvious to me, the evidence is overwhelming, that on this thread, and the other one, I am in the company of some exquisitely sensitive souls. How else could I explain the rather innocuous vituperations I am constantly subjected to, in lieu of any arguments, except by assuming that the effects they are presumably expected to have on me are similar to the effects they would have on my fellow debaters if they were subjected to them themselves.

For such effects to be produced on a person by jejeune simpering and limp-wristed remonstrations necessarily requires an exquisite sensitivity and a delicacy wrought by a somewhat cossetted intellectual socialisation.

I'm sorry to say, and it is possibly to be regretted, that gentle applications of the stings of feather-dusters and powder-puffs ceased to impinge on my demeanour before I entered the stage of long trousers in the fourth form of my schooling at the hands of Catholic priests. And it has been all downhill ever since. At the stage I'm at now, also a matter of a keen regret, which is honed enough to explain my empathy with the lads in the classrooms on whom the control freakery I'm witnessing is being exercised on a daily basis, even the whip of vituperative heated vitriol slat into my eyes from short range (speaking metaphorically of course) is a matter of no consequence.

My dear Mama drilled into me that only sticks and stones were worth bothering about. My Mama could skin and clean a rabbit in very short order. She only became sensitive when enquiries were made into her history before she met my father who was a classic hippie before hippies were invented. Weight stops trains he often said.

One cannot survive very long the late evenings in pubs with a thin skin. And if you multiply the number of days in the year by the number of years since I became of an age to be allowed to buy alcohol you will get an answer which is almost the same as the number of late evenings I have spent in pubs, bars and NAFFIs. I believe in pubs. They are the last bastion of male freedom. Only the exquisitely sensitive souls would think otherwise. Possibly from having no choice.

But all this has been plain to see for a long time. Our fondly remembered and much missed friend timberlanko commented on the matter once. Thus it is equally plain that these flaccid and fragile fulminations directed at me are a waste of time not unlike the waste of time produced by banging one's head against a wall which, as everyone knows, is the hallmark of the completely stupid.

What I want to see is the justification for not paying any mind to the consequences of teaching evolution when everything in a school curriculum is designed specifically to have a consequence. Even math, which we call sums, is designed so that people will be able to understand their bank statements and salary deductions and not be easily cheated at supermarket check-outs. English teaching enables people to read the football reports and racing form and the instructions on job cards and self-assembly bunk-bed kits.

What will evolution teaching enable ordinary people to do? I hope it isn't that they might imagine themselves to be scientists. There are quite sufficient numbers of such people already despite very few being in evidence on last night's Steelers/Jets slugout coverage.

spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 10:45 am
@Krumple,
Calm down Krumple. An evolutionist could not see a reason for not spending a night of hot passion in a motel with her husband's best friend, unless it was a straight materialistic calculation, if she fancied it. In bourgeois literature the word "kiss" is a euphemism.

Quote:
Isn't that the only thing you have to base your arguments on?


Of course it is. It is why schools are subjected to strict controls.

Quote:
There are plenty of people who follow and understand that evolution is a fact that do not support my idea of relationships.


At the risk of being accused of employing the "true Scotsman fallacy" I will assert that such people are merely playing with the idea of evolution for a range of entirely subjective reasons. They cannot possibly "truly" follow and understand evolution. They are just saying they do.

Your idea of relationships is entirely consistent with evolutionary practice established scientifically over what is an unimaginable period of time. That's why I took the liberty of quoting you on this thread. I don't see any other type of relationship in evolution's joyous canon? The Goddess rules evolution.

There is not the slightest chance of you going to hell because there is no such place.

But I will say that I'll believe anything at all if it bathes me in bliss.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 11:06 am
@reasoning logic,
rl, Did you know that Fijians practiced cannibalism until as recently as 100 years ago? Think of how many lives it has saved since then!
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 03:46 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
It is quite obvious to me, the evidence is overwhelming, that on this thread, and the other one, I am in the company of some exquisitely sensitive souls.


No, just some bored souls who are tired of your empty rants.
spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 04:06 pm
@plainoldme,
Not tired enough. There were 4 of them at me yesterday and the Bears/Packers game was on the telly.

They claim to be bored as a variation on my being "off-track", a "troll" and "derailing the thread". Which matter I dealt with above,
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 06:39 pm
@spendius,
Their claims all seem perfectly reasonable and utterly consistent with your postings.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2011 07:37 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Do you think that the christians got more involved with the Fijians because of what happened to Rev Thomas Baker ?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2011 06:55 am
@plainoldme,
Quote:
Their claims all seem perfectly reasonable and utterly consistent with your postings.


But that's just another assertion like the ones it is intended to support. Obviously you don't do conversation pom. It's claque speech. And, in view of what I said above, completely pointless. It's a bat-squeak in a distant cave.

The consequence of teaching evolution is the replacement of Christianity by totalitarian socialism. The programme partakes of the Fabian doctrine of "permeation" or "gradualism".

That it directs its attention at people who have no say is proof of its fatuity. It is not serious. It is merely gobbing off for reasons of personal reassurance. Trying to convince oneself of what one is already convinced of.

0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  3  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2011 10:20 am
Quote:
Anthropologist Mann builds body of evidence with evolution studies
(by Ushma Patel, Princeton University News, January 24, 2011)

While teaching his "Human Adaptation" class, Princeton University anthropology professor Alan Mann motioned with his arms and legs as he explained the evolution of human joints from earlier vertebrates' joints.

"In your shoulder, you can combine abduction, adduction, flexion and extension and produce a movement called circumduction. Whee!" Mann said, swinging his arm in a circle. "Do you know how many animals can do that on the planet? Chimps, gorillas, orangutans, gibbons, sloths and us."

Mann's sense of wonder about human origins and his bond with all animal species -- living and extinct -- have endeared him to students and colleagues for more than 40 years.

Mann, a physical anthropologist, has focused his research on fossil remains -- mainly teeth -- of australopithecines and Neandertals to understand human growth and development. Mann also teaches a signature summer course in Bordeaux, France, "Modern Human Origins," which culminates in two weeks of excavation at a site once frequented by Neandertals.

"We have had to counter an argument that Neandertals were sort of dumb bunnies that were inferior to modern humans, the Cro-Magnons, who supposedly replaced them," Mann said. The evidence discovered at the site, however, Mann said, "gives us a picture of Neandertals as extraordinarily competent people in an environment that was really tough."

Mann began teaching at Princeton as a visiting professor in 1986 and joined the faculty full time in 2001, when he transferred to emeritus status at the University of Pennsylvania. His research and teaching ties together the sciences and social sciences, and he is "intellectually generous and deeply committed to collegial fellowship," said anthropology professor and department chair Carol Greenhouse.

*************************************************

At Penn, Mann began working with his collaborator of more than 30 years, Janet Monge. Monge was a doctoral student of Mann's in the 1970s and is now a visiting associate professor at Princeton and an adjunct associate professor of anthropology at Penn.

Mann and Monge began to create databases of images of Neandertal and modern human teeth, looking for patterns that appeared in both groups and would show the connection between the two -- despite many experts' view that modern humans were not descended from Neandertals.

"We had a rocky time, but we solidified a lot of our research methods because of the critiques," Monge said.

Their research, which showed that Neandertals' dental development showed strong similarities to humans, convinced them that Neandertals were part of the same species.

*************************************************

Based on their close study of facial features, Mann and Monge have taken on the roles of forensic anthropologists, providing expert testimony in criminal defense trials. They have been able to apply their knowledge of biological variation and cranial structure to help establish an individual's identifying characteristics. In several instances, surveillance cameras showed criminals whose earlobe, forehead or brow shape did not match the defendants being tried, and the anthropologists' expertise freed the accused.

"We use physical anthropology as a way of showing a person is innocent," Mann said. Referring to a case in which he helped free a teenager accused of rape and DNA later confirmed the teenager's innocence, he said, "That, I have to say, was the best thing I've ever done."

In 1990, Mann was a Fulbright Scholar at the University of Bordeaux, where he became a research associate of the anthropology laboratory and where Bruno Maureille, now head of the lab, was at the time a doctoral student. The two became friends, and in 2001 the French government authorized Maureille and Mann to restart excavations at Les Pradelles. The collapsed cave in southwest France served as a hunting camp for Neandertals to butcher reindeer and horse meat about 40,000 to 80,000 years ago.

Mann modified a summer study abroad course to Bordeaux he had led for years, adding two weeks of excavation. The course, "Modern Human Origins," also involves lectures and visits to important archaeological sites and painted caves, and it focuses on some markers of "human-ness" -- the ability to use tools, the development of language and the production of art.

***********************************************

After devoting his career to studying evolution, Mann sees it as a flawed process.

"Evolution produces function, not perfection," Mann said. Each human function has a history and reason, he said, but it also may have some unexpected consequences.

For example, the increasing complexity and size of human brains led braincases to increase in size, which shortened the dental arcade and led most people to need to have their wisdom teeth extracted, Mann said. This is what he calls "a scar of human evolution."

Mann discusses many such examples in the class "Human Adaptation," which he co-teaches with Monge. Using the course as a foundation, Mann and Monge created a museum exhibit called "Surviving: The Body of Evidence" with support from a National Science Foundation grant and the Penn Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, where both have overseen the physical anthropology collection. The exhibit launched in 2009 to coincide with the 150th anniversary of the publication of Charles Darwin's "On the Origin of Species," and it has since been installed at museums in Cleveland, Houston and Memphis.

In the class, Mann leads the students through the study of movement, the chewing system, and the brain and behavior -- and insists that every Princeton graduate should learn the bones of their body.

Sophomore Jilly Chen said she was unfamiliar with anthropology before she took the class and didn't know what to expect. What she got was a quirky and energetic professor who incorporated words like "groovy" and "chappy" in class, while presenting large amounts of technical information.

"I've gained a lot of insight into how my body works and how it has come to function the way it does," she said. Mann's style of teaching makes the material more accessible, she said, "because he doesn't lecture, he just really wants to show you something fascinating."

Mann takes pride in his teaching, saying he can't lead a class without enthusiasm. He keeps his six framed teaching awards in his office, along with figures of primates and "cave men" given to him by students over the years.

Said Monge, "He's an excellent researcher and excellent teacher -- and he doesn't think of them as being in conflict with each other."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2011 10:29 am
@reasoning logic,
First time I've heard about Rev Baker; according to a Wiki article, that was the turning point for Fijians, so you can say it was good for "both" sides.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2011 12:04 pm
@wandeljw,
Edit.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2011 12:05 pm
@wandeljw,
That's embarrassing wande. It's nothing but a string of banalities sexed up with a few titles and brilliantine words.

The Prof. is obviously well connected, eats plenty of pork and has a skill with mesmerism.

If American education is flat-lining you can see why from that mush.

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S29/56/19A00/index.xml?section=featured
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2011 12:37 pm
@spendius,
spendi, You're the only poster on a2k who uses
Quote:
a string of banalities sexed up with a few titles and brilliantine words
. But, that's the primary reason why I read your very entertaining posts.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2011 03:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I agree ci. that consideration of the social consequences of teaching evolution to a nation's adolescents is a banality. A profound one. In fact I can't bring to mind any other call to action that did not consider the consequences as the first, only and obvious priority.

One wouldn't even catch a bus if one had no idea where it was going unless one was sleepwalking.

But there is no greater banality than evolution theory itself. It represents automatic history. It abolishes human will, intelligence and choice. **** happens is all it adds up to. What you see is what you get. It's like a catalytic cracker as the environment and with life instead of the crude oil. The jungle-juice distillers did the science. Long, long ago. I bet it was a harder thing to find than a distant galaxy. And of far, far greater importance. Words fail me on that.

However technologically complicated the process of catalytic cracking the principle is banal. I could easy make getting the milk out of the fridge and making a cup of hot chocolate, with sugar, sound scientific. If I had the time and the inclination I would have a go. I could start with Prof Mann's flexi joints in the shoulder, the arm, the elbow, the wrist and the fingers just to get the ******* door open and trace it back to a bird picking a worm out of the mud. It's like going downstairs backwards so you can see the steps.

The saucepan is quite a complicated item at these prices and the fingertip heat, sparked by a cigarette lighter in a split-second with a set of flexi-joint miracles, lends itself to more interesting speculations than the Prof's swinging his arms about to get famous with alternative teaching methods and a fissog that is much safer in a university than in a class of kids.

The proper teaching method is to take great pains over the lecture notes to advance the student's education and read it to them in a mumbling monotone, slumped over the desk lethargically, on the grounds that the students who are interested will be able to follow it and those who are not can be given a pass degree for behaving during the course in a manner befitting a respectable American university student. As E Beth once asked, "What do you call a doctor who was bottom of the class in medical school?" Which it wouldn't mention on the certificate. The answer is banal. A lawyer in synergy with such a doctor would be "My counsel".

I never had any time for enthusiastic teachers. It's as if they don't accept that while it is mandatory to be locked up in school for unconscionable periods of time it is not mandatory to have to pay any attention. And they don't accept that what they are spouting would bore a centuries old stone gatepost, covered in moss with birdshit patterns and from which the gate is long gone, to those who are not really interested in the subject. And that's how all the wrong people end up in the wrong jobs.

If I did the urge to have a cup of hot chocolate scientifically I might astound myself. That's complex. Which brand might take up a few chapters.

The Prof in only interested in himself. He has hitched his star to a saleable subject.
 

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