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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 07:14 am
@farmerman,
And your gutter language and arguing from assertions was never shown in court to be the chosen method of anti-IDers.

In a November 2006 talk given at Bennington College, Jones again rejected the "activist judge" criticisms and explained the judiciary role and how judges decide cases:

Quote:
If you look at public polls in the United States, at any given time a significant percentage of Americans believe that it is acceptable to teach creationism in public high schools. And that gives rise to an assumption on the part of the public that judges should 'get with the program' and make decisions according to the popular will.

There's a problem with that....The framers of the Constitution, in their almost infinite wisdom, designed the legislative and executive branches under Articles I and II to be directly responsive to the public will. They designed the judiciary, under Article III, to be responsive not to the public will--in effect to be a bulwark against public will at any given time--but to be responsible to the Constitution and the laws of the United States.

That distinction, just like the role of precedent, tends to be lost in the analysis of judges' decisions, including my decision.


Will you explain why that's not plain silly. And notice the "almost".

How are Articles I and II not in opposition to Article III?

High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 07:49 am
@spendius,
Religious liberty constitutes atheism?! The Chicago Ritz-Carlton is a dump?!! The author Harris whom you meant - looked him up - has less in common with the old marquis than the author I was citing, whence the confusion for which I apologize to thread. In any event neither can claim any major literary merits. Unlike Sade. Sade was locked up in prisons for torturing and murdering people and in insane asylums because he was stark, raving mad - though he did write very elegant French. Nothing to do with his political views. He was an atheist, furthermore, and accused of blasphemy (then a very serious matter) by the Catholic church - though given the incoherence of all your other views that wouldn't stop you from admiring him.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 08:39 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm2nY67e6LQ

I just spent the last hour watching that. The judge mentioned more than once that defence witnesses were unprepared. As if that is a reason on which to decide a case. It implies that if defence witnesses had been more credible he might have decided differently.

I was interested in him facing the audience on his right all the time. I thought maybe they were all seated over on that side but when questions were asked it became obvious there were people on his left. Those interested in the language of gesture, and this one was pronounced, might wish to offer an explanation. And the judge also mentioned putting Fox News on Ignore.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 09:00 am
@High Seas,
Look HS. You are not up to discussing the Marquis de Sade with me. I gave you two sources to follow up. Either do so or let it rest. Enemies of republicanism invented the stuff you are on about.

Quote:
In any event neither can claim any major literary merits.


Cor blimey!!! Thank you for your official notification that dumbing down readers here is your top priority.

I have already told these threads of wande's, before your fresh-faced, rookie presence, that the Marquis and his main inspiration, Julien Offray de La Mettrie (November 23, 1709 – November 11, 1751), French physician and philosopher, were both martyred in the cause of anti-ID. It in incomprehensible to me why anti-IDers should, no matter how many times the cock crows, deny these original heroes of their movement.

All hotels are dumps in my opinion.
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 09:11 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Will you explain why that's not plain silly. And notice the "almost".
The Federal judiciary is not "ELECTED" . or has that point been missed by you dimmy?
A rule by majority is the silliness. We elect representatives in a republic and vest powers unto them to do our bidding. If we dont like that, we unelect em. The judiciary is separate and acts as "the buffer" to the tyranny of the majority.

You need to get some additional understandings of the WAY THINGS ARE.
Remember, the framers of the US Constitution had the benefit of seeing the dumb **** that happens in ENgland and other European "Constitutional Monarchies".
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 09:14 am
@spendius,
Quote:
his main inspiration, Julien Offray de La Mettrie (November 23, 1709 – November 11, 1751), French physician and philosopher
La Mettrie actually dies of gluttony, hardly a martyr.Yet revisionism is one of spendis best talents
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 09:33 am
@spendius,
You have no French, so of necessity you rely on translations of doubtful accuracy. It's worrisome you can't read English, either:
Quote:
In any event neither can claim any major literary merits. Unlike Sade.

Got the bold, dimwittie? Got the simple English syntax - "neither" refers to 2 other authors, not Sade? Sue whatever university gave you a degree, btw.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 09:39 am
@farmerman,
On July 2nd, 1789, Sade was moved from the Bastille (taken by the revolutionaries a few days later on the 14th). He had to be loaded on a cart as he was too grotesquely obese to fit into a carriage. Perhaps that's what Spendius meant by "inspiration" - nothing can surprise me from him any longer <G>
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 09:45 am
LOUISIANA UPDATE
Quote:
Panel approves textbooks
(By Mike Hasten • Monroe News-Star • December 8, 2010)

BATON ROUGE — The Board of Elementary and Secondary Education will decide Thursday whether to purchase new science textbooks over the objections of some religious groups who argue the books should contain information other than evolution.

Six of seven members of the Student/School Performance and Support Committee voted to approve the recommendation of two review panels that endorsed the new books. The six members comprise a majority of the 11-member board.

Louisiana last purchased high school science and biology books eight years ago. Teachers told the panel that numerous scientific discoveries have been made in the past eight years and students are being denied access to the latest information.

A crowd of people at the meeting wanted books that at least mention creationism or intelligent design or say that evolution is not a fact. An almost equal group promoted teaching pure science.

Gene Mills, director of the Louisiana Family Forum, complained that the selected biology textbook "is biased and inaccurate when it comes to the controversies."

The "controversy" is the belief that Darwin's Theory of Evolution is just a theory and has little basis in fact. Mills said he wanted the committee to delay the purchase to "allow publishers to correct the inefficiencies."

But biology and evolutionary science professors and students at LSU asserted that in science, a "theory" is based in fact.

John Oller, a University of Louisiana at Lafayette linguistics and communicative disorders professor, joined Mills in contending the proposed science books should not be purchased.

"They're wrong because they're often 30-60 years out of date," Oller said. He said the books proposed for Louisiana were "dumbed-down."

"Louisiana students are prepared for this," he said, "You shouldn't deny controversies."

Barbara Forrest, a Southeastern Louisiana University philosophy professor and member of the National Center for Science Education board, countered Oller's and Mills' arguments and said they were promoting a "creationist agenda." She said "part of their religious agenda is attacking the teaching of science."

"These books are extremely weak on actually examining evidence of the claims being made in the books," said Lennie Ditoro, an associate of the Family Forum. She said the problem with the books is that evolution is "taught dogmatically, and the evidence that challenges it is completely ignored."

Patsye Peebles, a long-time Baton Rouge biology teacher and National Association of Biology Teachers board member, said the effort to block teaching of evolution results from "the mistaken idea that religion and evolution cannot co-exist." She said she not only teaches biology but Sunday school and a confirmation class.

Pastors from several churches argued on both sides of the issue.

University Presbyterian Pastor Patricia Snyder of Baton Rouge said she didn't want to attend the meeting but she had to speak out against "attempts to make the Bible a science textbook." She urged BESE to approve the textbooks "so the state can move forward" and not give in to "pseudo science."

Her associate pastor, the Rev. Clint Mitchell, said "there is no scientific controversy. The Bible is not a science book. Its intention is to transform lives. Textbooks should stick to teaching science. Teaching religion should be left to churches and families."

The Rev. Jesse Burgoyne, pastor of the Accountability Church in Watson, urged the board not to order the books.

John Yeats of the Louisiana Baptist Convention said a delay would give publishers time to incorporate provisions of the 2008 Louisiana Science Education Act, which allows for the introduction of alternatives to evolution.

Only the committee chairman, Dale Bayard of Sulphur, voted against buying the books after about three hours of testimony by opponents and proponents. BESE members John Bennett of Port Allen, Glenny Lee Buquet of Houma, Penny Dastugue of Mandeville, Linda Johnson of Plaquemine, Walter Lee of Mansfield and Chas Roemer of Baton Rouge voted to send the issue to the full board.

It's up to parish school boards if they want to purchase new books for local schools.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 09:48 am
@farmerman,
Food poisoning it was at the table of Frederick the Great who gave him asylum and appointed him Reader to the King. Source--the preface to an edition of L'Homme Machine in the collection Les Chefs d'Oeuvre Meconnus by Maurice Solovine.

His principle heresy was that the object of science is the discovery of truth which can only be obtained through evidence and experiment.

One might easily see why enemies of science and truth should blacken his name as you do. Pushing your boat out is all you are here for fm and viewers who don't know it are obviously barely literate.
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 12:31 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Food poisoning it was at the table of Frederick the Great ..... viewers who don't know it are obviously barely literate.

Nonsense. It was at the home of the French ambassador to Berlin, not Sans Souci; Frederick the Great was nowhere near. Voltaire wrote several letters to friends following La Mettrie's death; the circumstances aren't in doubt - except by the barely literate, ably represented by Spendius:
[quote]“Ce La Mettrie, cet Homme-Machine, ce jeune médecin, cette vigoureuse santé, cette vigoureuse imagination, tout cela vient de mourir, pour avoir mangé par vanité, tout un pâté de faisan aux truffes.” [/quote]
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 02:25 pm
@High Seas,
Take your pick HS. But if you want to blacken the name of anti-ID's first known martyr it's okay by me.

People were out to kill him for his writings. Spys were everywhere in courts. Voltaire was jealous of his influence which La Mettrie was usurping and it is unusual for a medical man and philosopher to gluttonise himself to death. Poison was easily available. Cooks are bribeable. And how many does gluttony kill?

The circumstantial evidence is for poisoning. I'm staying with it. Man a Machine. fm makes authentic currach on auto-programming. Love it!!! HS applies war paint mechanically. wande arranges Chicago meet when holes in punch card are aligned for the job. Ace. Attendees reflexing. Hohoho.

It's ironic isn't it. Me sticking up for Julien (another Julien) Offroy and you lot making out he was a pig. One of us is confused and it ain't me.

I wonder whether Julien Assange knew about Julien Offroy and Julien Sorel.

One a martyr to science, much more so than Galileo, and the other a martyr to the irresistability of women. Now a martyr to free speech arises.

Other martyrs to science--Socrates, Pythagoras and Jesus. Maybe Madame Curie.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 05:00 pm
@spendius,
The real point spendi , is ACCURACY in your relation of these "tales". We went through your convenient lapses in memory , your ignorance of your own declared craft of chemistry, your spiehls regarding your creative interpretations of "history" (not to mention your ignorant platitudes regarding the US Fed Court and how Dover was carried out).

The way I see it is to recall and paraphrase what Roberta said elsewhere."If youre wrong about these things, in what else are you fulla ****"?
Others may be impressed, I think however, that several of us have been saying all along that youre butt naked.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 05:07 pm
@High Seas,
Hes really a sore loser at Dover, so hes been gradually building his own "history" that fails to recognize that the majority of the key witensses at Dover, were devout and practicing Catholics , Lutherans, and Jew. Barbara Forrest is agnostic but as spendi wants us to ignore, The prosecution was not required to prove anything of their worldview,whereas it was the central issue of the defense.

A Catholic Biologist,an (observant)Jewish geneticist A Catholic lAwyer, a Presbyterian philosopher, all appealed to a Lutheran judge that , while religion and science are definately not incompatible in their views, NO EVIDENCE FOR "INTELLIGENT DESIGN WAS AVAILABLE TO THE DEFENSES CASE".
The Lutheran judge merely ruled on the side of the evidence and a strict interpretation of the Constitution.
No amount of self-congratulatory taproom two-step could alter that fact.

OH yeh, the fact that the perps in the defense were all card carrying members of several EVangelical Fundamental Christian cults draws our attention to the fact that this entire huggermugger is in the camp of an extreme minority of Christians, and these are a continuous embarrassment to the majority of the AMerican religious.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 06:14 pm
The last two posts on this thread are woffle.

Are you a machine fm? Descartes said animals are machines and he was an expert and La Mettrie said that if man is an animal then man is a machine and he invented empirical science, biology and psychology. Which is why he was knocked off.

The rejection of dualism is involved. You're not just a monkey. You're a special sort of monkey. No monkey ever tried to make a nutcracker. And you made an authentic currach. What was that all about mechanically?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 06:17 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

LOUISIANA UPDATE
Quote:
Panel approves textbooks
(By Mike Hasten • Monroe News-Star • December 8, 2010)

John Yeats of the Louisiana Baptist Convention said a delay would give publishers time to incorporate provisions of the 2008 Louisiana Science Education Act, which allows for the introduction of alternatives to evolution.


What "alternatives to evolution" is he talking about I wonder? As far as I know, there are no other scientific alternatives to evolution.

People that talk about "alternatives" should "put up" or "shut up".
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 06:21 pm
ros is trying to take us back to where he was at 10. He's more comfortable there.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 06:57 pm
@High Seas,
You think Mister Edd's post on a game show is perceptive ? Very Happy Perhaps an explanation of his perception would help ?

Quote:
other posters will cover expenses for his stay there
They will ???
Quote:
Time to put up or shut up
I will take whats behind the door. Mister Edd please take note.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 07:01 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I don't need to be defended to that troll piece of ****.
You mean "I dont need to be defended FROM that trollING piece of ****".

You are a coward Mister Edd. You believed in the death penalty till your brother was murdered, then the reality of death was brought home to you and you chose fear of your own death over principles. You changed your mind on the death penalty so your own death will be deniable.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 07:05 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Any opinion , authored by spendius regarding US jurisprudence, is a wild guess at best.
Are you aware law varies between the states of the USA, and that lawyers pass bar exams in states both within Australia and the USA ? That the laws between all the states and their commonwealth in Australia, UK and USA have laws that say different things but have a very common aim and a very similar effect ?
 

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