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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 07:02 am
@rosborne979,
Thanks, rosborne! I bookmarked your link. I would like to spend more time reading it.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 08:44 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Great article, Roswell, thanks!

Yeh, who would have thought Corn had such a history Smile
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 08:47 am
@wandeljw,
I always find time to do the things I like wande.

Expressing a desire to do something is an easy way of sounding intellectual without the necessary effort to accomplish it.

effemm opinied, for a similar reason I would guess, that he doesn't like reading on the internet as an excuse for giving ros's blogger link the go-by.

Those methods are not something to inculcate in kids in my opinion. They can end up like you lot wearing scientific subject titles as badges. Which causes them to have to socialise where such things impress people with no further explanation.

Anyway--I read it. It was rubbish. Teleological joyriding. Words as badges.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 08:50 am
@spendius,
You have to laugh. The polite appreciation of ros's link provided by two anti-IDers who can't be arsed reading it and the one who does read it is on Ignore.

The carpet too is moving under you.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 09:51 am
Quote:
An open letter to Mississippi lawmakers
(By Julie Shedd, Hattiesburg American, January 15, 2009)

Respectfully, sirs and madams: Are you trying to make Mississippi the state with the least well-educated and most helpless population in this country?

Last week we learned that due to disastrous and disproven abstinence-only education, we have the nation's highest rate of teenage pregnancy. Now we have House Bill 25, which aims to place stickers on science textbooks questioning the validity of evolutionary theory.

Current challenges to evolutionary theory are not based on science. They are based on religious beliefs and the ideas of so-called "think tanks" such as the Discovery Institute, which studies the pseudoscience of "intelligent design." Therefore, they have no place in science classrooms, let along our public school system.

I could go on an infuriated rant, but instead, I'll take apart some of the stickers' claims.

"The word 'theory' has many meanings, including: systematically organized knowledge; abstract reasoning; a speculative idea or plan; or a systematic statement of principles. Scientific theories are based on both observations of the natural world and assumptions about the natural world. They are always subject to change in view of new and confirmed observations."

Here we have the first refuge of the ignorant-of-evolutionary-science. In science, "theory" has only one meaning. It denotes a hypothesis which has been tested so often and in such varied ways that it can be relied upon.

Yes, the theory can change if new scientific observations are made. That's the beauty of science. This does not mean that every challenge to a theory can be taken seriously.

"This textbook discusses evolution, a controversial theory some scientists present as a scientific explanation for the origin of living things."

This theory is not controversial; at least, not among those who have a working knowledge of the theory. And if the phrase "some scientists" refers to "the vast majority of reputable, knowledgeable scientists," then sure, "some scientists" are behind it.

"No one was present when life first appeared on earth. Therefore, any statement about life's origins should be considered a theory."

Incorrect. Mere statements about life's origins should be considered ideas, or at best, hypotheses. As stated above, theories have been tested.

"Evolution refers to the unproven belief that random, undirected forces produced living things. There are many topics with unanswered questions about the origin of life which are not mentioned in your textbook, including: the sudden appearance of the major groups of animals in the fossil record (known as the Cambrian Explosion); the lack of new major groups of other living things appearing in the fossil record; the lack of transitional forms of major groups of plants and animals in the fossil record; and the complete and complex set of instructions for building a living body possessed by all living things."

Scientific theories are often not complete explanations of everything that ever happened. Yes, there are unanswered questions. There are billions of years of history behind us, after all. At least two of these claims, however, have been reliably disproven.

First of all, the common creationist/"intelligent design" claim that we have no transitional forms. We have thousands of them. Ever hear of Archaeopteryx? Visit a museum. Secondly, the issue of a set of instructions: There is none. Why would there be? Living beings are not transistor radios or IKEA bookshelves; they do not come with instructions.

"Study hard and keep an open mind."

That's not easy to do when you're closing it for me.

People who take issue with evolution usually do not have a complete knowledge of how evolution works.

Mississippi's children will carry this incomplete knowledge with them if this sort of thing is what we teach them. Without understanding evolutionary theory and other scientific concepts, we are set up to remain not only the poorest and most pregnant state, but also the least-educated.

People: Please follow the lead of other states in this matter and do not support this bill. Debate it if you must (preferably in church, which is where the anti-evolution debate belongs), but please, allow your children to learn.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 10:52 am
@rosborne979,
And such a dramatic history, with such insights into the evolutionary process . . . the photos were astounding.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 12:48 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Respectfully, sirs and madams: Are you trying to make Mississippi the state with the least well-educated and most helpless population in this country?


What a ridiculous thing to start an article with. The dear lady is defining "well-educated" and "helpless" in her own terms. And "helpless" is an absolute. The "most" is fatuous.

Quote:
Last week we learned that due to disastrous and disproven abstinence-only education, we have the nation's highest rate of teenage pregnancy. Now we have House Bill 25, which aims to place stickers on science textbooks questioning the validity of evolutionary theory.


Same with "disastrous". And it's an assertion that the cause she has chosen to blame the teenage pregnancy rate on is the actual cause of what she milks to make her circular points. Julie has assumed that the teenage pregnancy rate is a problem which it definitely isnt in the evolution theory she has gone in to bat for. The racehorse sales figures show that foals are more expensive with young mares. On average. If bidders are right and the same evolution theory applies to the gonads of horses and humans then she is arguing for species degeneration. Not that she is likely to care. Methinks I caught a glimpse of Puritan bluestocking tops there.

And House Bill 25 is voted on by elected people. Not ill-educated people like Julie who have been recruited to spout in public by a mysterious process which I doubt she would be prepared to discuss.

Quote:
Current challenges to evolutionary theory are not based on science. They are based on religious beliefs and the ideas of so-called "think tanks" such as the Discovery Institute, which studies the pseudoscience of "intelligent design." Therefore, they have no place in science classrooms, let along our public school system.


Julie has certain specially chosen sciences in mind. Assuming they are sciences. Not all sciences mind and not all based on religious beliefs as my challenge isn't. No sociology and no psychology. But they are on ignore aren't they? Sit your own duck on the branch polemic. So therefore- squat all.

Quote:
I could go on an infuriated rant, but instead, I'll take apart some of the stickers' claims.


What a pity. I would have loved an infuriated rant from Julie but she does admit she can do one but her editor has her bottled up.

Quote:
"The word 'theory' has many meanings, including: systematically organized knowledge; abstract reasoning; a speculative idea or plan; or a systematic statement of principles. Scientific theories are based on both observations of the natural world and assumptions about the natural world. They are always subject to change in view of new and confirmed observations."


I feel that the legislators will have taken expert advice before drafting that. If I have time I will post a short essay on "Theory" later.

Quote:
Here we have the first refuge of the ignorant-of-evolutionary-science. In science, "theory" has only one meaning. It denotes a hypothesis which has been tested so often and in such varied ways that it can be relied upon.


I feel that Julie will have consulted her lesson notes from school to draft that.

Quote:
Yes, the theory can change if new scientific observations are made. That's the beauty of science. This does not mean that every challenge to a theory can be taken seriously.


And it does not mean that some challenges to the theory can be taken lightly. Another beauty of science is that it has a number of branches none of which can be ignored in order to pull the wool over.

Quote:
"This textbook discusses evolution, a controversial theory some scientists present as a scientific explanation for the origin of living things."

This theory is not controversial; at least, not among those who have a working knowledge of the theory. And if the phrase "some scientists" refers to "the vast majority of reputable, knowledgeable scientists," then sure, "some scientists" are behind it.


That's it then. Julie has spoken. It's not controversial. All that debate for 150 years and Julie settles it. It's in the paper too. What more evidence could anybody possibly want? All those jobs and fees and career ops were all a scam. They must have been if the theory is not controversial. Goodness me! What can all the fuss have been about?

[/quote]"No one was present when life first appeared on earth. Therefore, any statement about life's origins should be considered a theory.

Incorrect. Mere statements about life's origins should be considered ideas, or at best, hypotheses. As stated above, theories have been tested.[/quote]

Be careful Julie. A chink has appeared.

Quote:
"Evolution refers to the unproven belief that random, undirected forces produced living things. There are many topics with unanswered questions about the origin of life which are not mentioned in your textbook, including: the sudden appearance of the major groups of animals in the fossil record (known as the Cambrian Explosion); the lack of new major groups of other living things appearing in the fossil record; the lack of transitional forms of major groups of plants and animals in the fossil record; and the complete and complex set of instructions for building a living body possessed by all living things."

Scientific theories are often not complete explanations of everything that ever happened. Yes, there are unanswered questions. There are billions of years of history behind us, after all. At least two of these claims, however, have been reliably disproven.

First of all, the common creationist/"intelligent design" claim that we have no transitional forms. We have thousands of them. Ever hear of Archaeopteryx? Visit a museum. Secondly, the issue of a set of instructions: There is none. Why would there be? Living beings are not transistor radios or IKEA bookshelves; they do not come with instructions.


Sheesh! She has me in a full Nelson with that. I don't know where to start.

Quote:
"Study hard and keep an open mind."


Aaaah! I see now why Julie doesn't like the sticker. Both of those are alien to her nature.

Quote:
People who take issue with evolution usually do not have a complete knowledge of how evolution works.


That trick only works in junior schools. It is very slippery there too but what can we do on these salary levels.

Quote:
Mississippi's children will carry this incomplete knowledge with them if this sort of thing is what we teach them. Without understanding evolutionary theory and other scientific concepts, we are set up to remain not only the poorest and most pregnant state, but also the least-educated.

People: Please follow the lead of other states in this matter and do not support this bill. Debate it if you must (preferably in church, which is where the anti-evolution debate belongs), but please, allow your children to learn.


Just low order rhetoric based on Julie having got the facts right. If she hasn't it's just filler to get to the number of words she was tasked to write.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 12:56 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
And such a dramatic history, with such insights into the evolutionary process . . . the photos were astounding.


Set has taken to make approving noises to signify that he understands because he couldn't approve if he didn't. Pull the other one Set.

A photo is a still. Evolution is moving. Dynamic.

Share the insights. Don't keep them all to yourself. Able us 2 Know.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 02:06 pm
This is a short essay on "Theory" by Professor Michael Ruse of the University of Guelph.

Quote:
A scientific theory is an attempt to bind together in a systematic fashion the knowledge one has of some particular aspect of the world of experience. The aim is to acheive some form of understanding, where it is usually cashed out as explanatory power and predictive facility. The traditional analysis, going back to the Greeks and most recently championed by such logical empiricists as Carl Hempel and Ernest Nagel, sees theories as ' hypothetico-deductive systems', meaning that one has sets of laws bound together through the fact that, from a few high-powered axioms or hypotheses, everything else can be shown to follow as a deductive consequence. Explanation therefore is a matter of showing how things happened because of the laws of the theory. Prediction is a matter of showing how things will happen in accordance with the laws of the theory. Most significant is the fact that really successful theories bind together information from many hitherto disparate areas of experience, thus exhibiting what the philosopher William Whewell characterized as a 'consilience of unductions'.

In recent years, this picture of theories has come under some considerable attack. Although it may apply fairly well to such a theoy as Newton's theory of gravitational attraction, something like Darwin's theory of evolution through natural selection seems not to be as tightly integrated (deductively) as is supposed. Moreover, while such a theory as Darwin's certainly has some predictive power, it can hardly be said that this is a compelling attraction. Hence, rather than relying on the traditional excuses ('biology is immature' and so forth) an increasing number of thinkers have started to promote a view of theories which (they claim) pays far greater attention to the actual practice of science. Supporters of this 'semantic view' of theories argue that theories should not be seen as overall systems trying to cover, at one move, major areas of experience. Rather, more informally, they should be considered as sets of theoretical models which are given empirical meaning only inasmuch as they can be applied directly (semantically) to certain limited areas of empirical reality. The virtues of the theory (like explanation and prediction) are not prescribed beforehand, but are very much a function of the particular model in use at the time.

Debate continues, but undoubtedly at least part of the divide is between an older philosophy of science which sees the task to be that of prescription of the ideal form of science, and a newer philosophy of science which rests content with a description of the way in which science is actually performed.


Which is, of course, to make money and take power.

I think Goethe would have agreed with that.

Would you buy an educational system off money and power seekers? And old fashioned fuddy-duddies who don't think the world has moved on since they "majored".

If Mississippi wishes to be on the cutting edge it might consider stopping Julie sticking half-bake, partial claptrap in the public prints and implying that elected legislators can be dressed down by the likes of her as if they were little kids.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 02:11 pm
Quote:
Most significant is the fact that really successful theories bind together information from many hitherto disparate areas of experience, thus exhibiting what the philosopher William Whewell characterized as a 'consilience of unductions'


An important area of experience which Julie passed by, and which is at the root of sexual selection, is the chemico-physiological aspects of rumpy-pumpy.

And also the psychological and sociological aspects of money and power grabs.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 06:36 pm
Hey ros, I printed it off and read it on the train this AM good stuff.
A fossil time appearnce graph of seed bearing plants is presented by the UCal Menlo PArk paleo dept.http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/plants/plantaefr.html

The WWW for all the collection of plant fossils is also a good resource.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 07:05 pm
@farmerman,
Glad you liked it FM. Plants are often overlooked in evolution discussions because they aren't as "colorful" as animals in some ways, but the history of plants is just as interesting and amazing as the animal side of things. Especially since plants have played such a huge part in human culture and survival (even more so than animal husbandry).

One of the sections I found most interesting was this:
Quote:
But there is at least one other genetic model that has been put forth to explain the evolution of new forms. This view postulates that many major features exhibited by organisms are "threshold" traits, meaning that they are determined by many converging influences which add together and -- once the level of influence exceeds a threshold -- generate the trait. The model predicts that certain invariant (i.e., never-changing) traits would nevertheless exhibit significant genetic variation, since evolutionary selection is acting on the overall trait and not on the individual genetic influences that are added together. Hence the implication that...
...populations contain substantial cryptic genetic variation, which, if reconfigured, could produce a discrete shift in morphology and thereby a novel phenotype. Thus, evolution would not be dependent on rare mutations, but on standing, albeit cryptic, genetic variation.
--from Nick Lauter and John Doebley, "Genetic Variation for Phenotypically Invariant Traits Detected in Teosinte: Implications for the Evolution of Novel Forms," Genetics 160:333-342, 2002.

This seems closely related to the discussion that we had on my Saber-Tooth Evolution thread (if you remember way back).

The ideas of "Threshold" traits and Cryptic genetic variation are things I will need to look into a bit more. I'm not clear on how they relate to the process yet.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 07:12 pm
BTW. A "consilience of unductions" is what Dylan meant by "blowing in a circle round my skull, from the Grand Coulee Dam to the Capitoooooool.

It's in Idiot Wind.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 09:06 am
@rosborne979,
What does "cryptic genetic variation" mean? Does that simply mean that there is lots of genetic information buried in the genome which isn't expressed, but which MAY be expressed under certain conditions (threshold conditions)?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 09:51 am
@rosborne979,
Thats pretty much it. Remember there are two sacred cows of Darwinian thought

1Selection

2Built in variation

Cryptic genertic variation is the second one and (Admittedly) the ugly child of Darwinian thought. We all think of micro and macro evolution as adaptation driven changes when, as Punctuated Equilibrium got everybody thinking was that , maybe there was some Built in structural driving force that propels change.
The concept of canalization of "cryptic genetic variation" is about 50 years old and was sort of just laid on the windowsill while everyone in evo-devo was looking at the big environmental cataclysms and giant genetic variations.

Cryptic variation makes us look at some real basic **** like
1Howmany genes are actually involved in a phenotypic trait

2How are these genes ditributed (genomic or extra genomic[extra genomic gene s are really HOT now])

3How do these genes even interact withn each other and their internal and external environment

4can we determine a baseline mutation rate?


As far as plants go, being in the applied science I use fossil plants much more than animals for economic exploration. Plants seem to sit around better wherever they like it and only migrate in large patterns when the environments are suitable (animals kind of spread out to areas even where they cant make a good living, and this gives false evidence of desired deposits)
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 11:59 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Especially since plants have played such a huge part in human culture and survival (even more so than animal husbandry).


This is absolutely true. The archaeological evidence is that the instances of hunter-gatherers continuing to hunt will taking up food production through crops is much, much higher than that of hunterer gatherers domesticating animals while continuing to gather their vegetable sources of food. Those who have domesticated animals while not domesticating plants are pretty well limited to nomadic or semi-nomadic pastoralists. Even among nomadic and semi-nomadic hunters, both archaeologists and ethnologists (we are just living in the age when hunter-gatherers are finally disappearing) have frequently noted that hunting cultures will plant a crop, follow the game, then return to tend the crops, follow the game again, and finally return to harvest. There are many, many cultures which domesticated plants without domesticating animals.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 12:03 pm
Doh ! ! ! I'm a little slow today . . .

Your example of the domestication of teosinte is the perfect example of this. The Amerindians of "Mesoamerica" domesticate the corn plant without ever domesticating animals. The use of maize, beans and gourds spread to many parts of what is now the continental United States and those crops were widely used by societies which never domesticated animals. I believe it is correct to state that only the llama was domesticated by Amerindians in pre-Columbian times.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 12:20 pm
I saw a movie called King Corn about agriculture in Iowa. There was some amazing stuff in that. It seems Iowa corn is in everything you eat. It seems it's a sort of low level cumulative poison. It seems you spend only 16% of your income on food which suggests that this wunnerful lifestyle you have is dependent on Iowa farmers who really do know how to pile up **** and get all sorts of different subsidies for doing so. And it's all being swallowed up by big business. Mutterings of genetic stuff coming in.

I'm hoping it will be repeated so I can see it again. It was on Sky Arts. Don't ask me why.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 12:29 pm
@spendius,
As a matter of interest what was the vegetation in Iowa before the farmers got there?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 12:44 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Thats pretty much it.

Then in a very general sense, does that imply that the effects of evolution will tend to accelerate as organisms become more genetically complex? Is that partly why the bulk of time on this planet was spent evolving what we consider more basic structures like single cells?

So with the three foundational elements of biological evolution being Reproduction, Variation and Selection, one of those components (Variation) serves as a feedback mechanism reacting to the genetic complexity of the evolving biology.

I always sensed that there was feedback in the system somewhere, but I couldn't quite identify it.

 

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