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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Shirakawasuna
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 03:20 am
@spendius,
Oh goody, now you're making your simplistic ideas even more obvious! Please, make more declarations of how much we suck and how awesome you clearly are, all while avoiding making cogent and on-topic points. That'll show us!
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 04:54 am
@Shirakawasuna,
Show who?

You are not to be shown anything as far as I can tell.

What was that post about Holdren and copper prices all about?

What was the Oh goody post about?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 09:47 am
Quote:
Oh No! I’ve Seen the Impossible! My Eyes!
(Carl Zimmer, Discover Magazine, December 30, 2008)

Ah, the things you learn from creationists.

If you’ve ever read about intelligent design (a k a “the progeny of creationism”), you’ve probably encountered their favorite buzz words, “irreducible complexity.” If you take a piece out of a complex biological system (like the cascade of blood-clotting proteins) and it fails to work, this is taken as evidence that the system could not have evolved. After all, without all the pieces in place, it couldn’t work.

Scientists have shown over and over again that this is a false argument. At the famous intelligent-design trial in Dover in 2005, Pennsylvania, for example, Brown biologist Ken Miller showed how dolphins and other species are missing various proteins found in our blood-clotting cascade, and they can still clot blood.

Three years later, the creationists are still trying to salvage irreducible complexity. This generally involves a bait-and-switch game. Today, for example, the Discovery Institute tells us that the evidence of dolphins does not touch the argument for irreducible complexity. See, what you have here are two different irreducibly complex systems, with one that just happens to have an extra part. Just think about bicycles: “Bicycles have two wheels. Unicycles, having only one wheel, are missing an obvious component found on bicycles. Does this imply that you can remove one wheel from a bicycle and it will still function? Of course not. Try removing a wheel from a bike and you’ll quickly see that it requires two wheels to function. The fact that a unicycle lacks certain components of a bicycle does not mean that the bicycle is therefore not irreducibly complex.”

Of course not. No. It’s not as if five seconds of googling could turn up a bicycle that still functioned without both wheels.
Shirakawasuna
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 11:59 am
@spendius,
If you honestly can't figure it out, it's time for you to get some remedial thinker retooling, maybe a little cognitive oil change. My reply nicely points to the exact post of yours I'm pointing to as melodramatic fantasy, copper has nothing to do with it.
Shirakawasuna
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 12:00 pm
@wandeljw,
Casey Luskin is great entertainment. We need to get the guy a mustache and a cane, for all the dancing he does.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 12:12 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Scientists have shown over and over again that this is a false argument.


I have shown that it is a false argument too. But I know you lot like to bring it up for that very reason.

It looks like a few seconds of Googling can turn it up as often as necessary for the purpose of knocking it down again with a feather duster.

Dover is passe.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 12:21 pm
@Shirakawasuna,
Well- here's your chance old son. Give me some remedial thinker retooling. I'm always willing to learn. I'll take the cognitive oil change as well.

Mentioning these concepts does not necessarily mean anything. I could probably benefit from a loosening of my inhibited mammalian spinal motoneurons as well if you can fit it in.

It was copper prices wasn't it? Not copper. The latter is just earth ****. The former is a whole world of human endevour.
Shirakawasuna
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 05:24 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
Well- here's your chance old son. Give me some remedial thinker retooling. I'm always willing to learn. I'll take the cognitive oil change as well.


Your replies make it clear that such a thing will need to be a solo exercise. Before I'd consider it worth the assumption of good will necessary, you'd need to show any capacity to learn and have a shred of humility.

Copper prices have nothing to do with this thread.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 08:42 am
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
Proposed Texas science curriculum released
(United Press International, Jan. 2, 2009)

Critics of earlier drafts say the final draft of the Texas science curriculum will provide students with a "21st century education," especially on evolution.

The draft changed a requirement that schools teach the "strengths and weaknesses" or "strengths and limitations" of scientific theories, the Fort Worth (Texas) Star-Telegram reports. In the third draft, the curriculum now requires that students be taught "to evaluate models according to their limitations in representing biological objects or events."

Watchdog groups and scientists said earlier drafts would have allowed creationist ideas in the classroom.

"The old standards were so vague, people can interpret them any way they want to," said Dan Quinn of the Texas Freedom Network. "It's a very important move forward that says teachers and curriculum writers are unanimous in wanting our kids to get a 21st century education."

The State Board of Education, which plans to hold a public hearing Jan. 21 and a vote in March, does not have to accept the draft. Last year, the board rejected a proposed arts curriculum in favor of one that members said they were given one hour to read before the vote.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 09:16 am
Want a "21'st Century Education"??

Simple enough: homeschool your kids or find a decent private school for them.
Shirakawasuna
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 11:11 am
@gungasnake,
He said, inappropriately using an apostrophe and two question marks.

To say nothing of the utterly poor scholarship and consistency you present... I know nothing of your personal life, but if you homeschooled the children would end up not just deeply ignorant of that 'basic reality' you often cite, but learning known falsehoods.

Thank bejeebus for public school.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 12:11 pm
@Shirakawasuna,
Welcome to my ignore list.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 02:25 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Critics of earlier drafts say the final draft of the Texas science curriculum will provide students with a "21st century education," especially on evolution.

The draft changed a requirement that schools teach the "strengths and weaknesses" or "strengths and limitations" of scientific theories, the Fort Worth (Texas) Star-Telegram reports. In the third draft, the curriculum now requires that students be taught "to evaluate models according to their limitations in representing biological objects or events."

Watchdog groups and scientists said earlier drafts would have allowed creationist ideas in the classroom.

"The old standards were so vague, people can interpret them any way they want to," said Dan Quinn of the Texas Freedom Network. "It's a very important move forward that says teachers and curriculum writers are unanimous in wanting our kids to get a 21st century education."

The State Board of Education, which plans to hold a public hearing Jan. 21 and a vote in March, does not have to accept the draft. Last year, the board rejected a proposed arts curriculum in favor of one that members said they were given one hour to read before the vote.


The only way a 21st cent. ed. can be avoided is to put the kids in suspended animation until the 22nd cent. starts.

I don't know about "evaluating models according to their limitations in representing biological objects or events." That should give teachers some scope.

And allowing creationist ideas into the classroom has nothing to do with whether the kids take any notice of them. Some of them will laugh.

Anything called a Freedom Network can be guaranteed to be trying to tie everybody up.

Quote:
It's a very important move forward that says teachers and curriculum writers are unanimous in wanting our kids to get a 21st century education.


That hardly inspires much confidence. gunga might be right.

Quote:
The State Board of Education, which plans to hold a public hearing Jan. 21 and a vote in March, does not have to accept the draft. Last year, the board rejected a proposed arts curriculum in favor of one that members said they were given one hour to read before the vote.


And that creates a vague sense of what it must be like roller-skating on a vibrating table on a small boat in a storm just off the surf beach. Blindfolded.
And having your pockets picked by fiends.

A blank stare seems a suitable riposte. Followed by "would you mind repeating that your honour?"
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 07:05 am
Quote:
Four Stakes in the Heart of Intelligent Design
(By CHARLES MCGRATH, New York Times Books Section, January 4, 2009)

Next month is the 200th birthday of Charles Darwin, who by an odd quirk of history was born on the same day as Abraham Lincoln, and to commemorate the occasion there are almost as many Darwin books jamming the conveyor belt as there are new books about Abe. These recent additions to the already vast Darwin literature include biographies, encyclopedias, defenses of evolution and reconsiderations of “The Origin of Species,” which came out 150 years ago, another milestone worth remarking.

But in this country at least, Darwin is not nearly as beloved as Lincoln, and in the struggle for bookstore supremacy he will most likely fall short. Polls repeatedly suggest that at least half of all Americans regard as fundamentally erroneous Darwin’s conclusion that human beings are descended from earlier species, and Kenneth R. Miller in his new book “Only a Theory: Evolution and the Battle for America’s Soul” points out that among industrialized nations we rank next to last, above only Turkey, in our acceptance of evolution and its principles.

As recent court cases in Kansas, Georgia and Pennsylvania demonstrate, we are still, more than 80 years after the so-called Scopes monkey trial, suing one another over whether evolution ought to be taught in the schools, and for those who are opposed, it’s not just an idle matter. While still a congressman, Tom DeLay linked the teaching of evolution directly to the school shootings at Columbine.

“Teach the controversy” is the watchword of those who want to smuggle the notion of intelligent design into the school curriculum. Expose students to both sides. This position has been endorsed even by President Bush, who has himself wobbled on whether he believes in evolution. In his retirement he might want to look into “Why Evolution Is True,” being published later this month, which goes over the evidence, some of it brand new. The writer, Jerry A. Coyne, is not as eloquent as Richard Dawkins or Stephen Jay Gould, probably the two most famous defenders of evolutionary theory, but in some ways he’s more informative about the basics, and he makes an unassailable case.

Like most evolutionary scientists, he contends that there is no controversy to teach, because intelligent design, which is really creationism in a new garment, is simply not a legitimate scientific theory. But if there is no controversy there is certainly an issue " one that might profitably be studied not in biology class but in history or civics. It reveals a lot about the great American tradition of anti-intellectualism, which seems to be getting stronger, not weaker, even as the country supposedly becomes better educated, and about the strange way we’re turning the court system, of all places, into a referee on scientific principles.

A good place to start such a class might be Lauri Lebo’s “Devil in Dover: An Insider’s Story of Dogma v. Darwin in Small-Town America,” which is a history of the latest such court case, stemming from a lawsuit filed in Dover, Pa., in 2004 by 11 parents seeking to block the local board of education from making intelligent design part of the ninth-grade biology curriculum. Ms. Lebo was the education reporter on the local paper, The York Daily Record, and her account is both well informed and at times deeply (almost embarrassingly) personal: the whole time she was reporting the story, she was struggling with her own beliefs and also locked in argument with her father, who owned a fundamentalist Christian radio station.

The case cleaved the community in much the same way, especially after it turned out that several of the school board members, who were basically clueless about both evolution and intelligent design, had lied when they claimed religious considerations were not behind their wish to introduce intelligent design. The judge, ruling for the plaintiffs, accused the Dover Board of Education of “breathtaking inanity,” which brought down such a hail of denunciation from anti-evolutionists that for a while federal marshals had to guard his house and family. And when the town of Dover, weary of the whole mess, eventually voted out the old school board, the televangelist Pat Robertson delivered his own verdict: if a disaster were by any chance to hit the town, the citizens shouldn’t look to God for help.

The lead witness for the plaintiffs in the Dover case was Mr. Miller, a biology professor at Brown University and the author of “Only a Theory,” and from his book you can easily see why he was so effective. He is clear and incisive and knows how to make things like the bacterial flagellum comprehensible to the layman. The flagellum, a little rotor-like mechanism that propels bacteria in the digestive system, so closely resembles what we would call an engine of human design that proponents of intelligent design have concluded it must be the work of a master designer.

In a few concise chapters Mr. Miller pretty much dismantles all the claims, such as they are, for the intelligent design movement. The flagellum, he says, far from being a custom design, so to speak, made from parts expressly created for that purpose, is, like so much else in nature, a jury-rigged device made from bits cobbled together from the cellular spare-parts bin.

Mr. Miller also adds an impassioned argument for why the rest of us shouldn’t just turn our heads and let a few benighted school systems teach whatever they want. Good students will eventually see the light, one argument goes, and as for the others " well, they probably weren’t going to be biologists anyway. But Mr. Miller believes that our very scientific soul is at stake and that the argument for intelligent design is just the first step in an attempt to redefine science itself and make it consonant not with scientific truth but with whatever you want to believe.

The reason the anti-Darwinians are willing to go so far is that they see themselves in a life-and-death struggle to keep society from being secularized and traditional values from being undermined. In fact, evolutionary theory contains no moral component whatsoever, but the gap between religious fundamentalists and those who want to preserve the principle of free scientific inquiry may be unbridgeable. Ms. Lebo concludes sadly, “We’re never going to fix this.”

In “Monkey Trials and Gorilla Sermons: Evolution and Christianity From Darwin to Intelligent Design,” first published last year and due out in paperback in April, Peter J. Bowler points out that extreme biblical literalism " of the sort that insists that creation took place as Genesis depicts it " may be more widespread now even than in 1859, when “The Origin of Species” was published.

There was a great 19th-century tradition of clergymen scientists who studied the natural word and especially the fossil record for evidence of the divine plan, and many of them embraced Darwin’s discoveries or at least the possibility that the biblical account might be metaphorical. Only in the 1950s, Mr. Bowler says, did strict biblical literalism become the foundation for mainstream creationism. His book also documents a long history of liberal compromise in which theologians tried to reconcile evolution with Christian belief.

To a large degree, though, these compromises depended on a misunderstanding of Darwinism, clinging to a notion of progress and purposefulness that is not really supported by evolutionary theory. Darwinism, strictly interpreted, describes a world that is random, haphazard and mostly unpredictable. Other compromisers have posited a creator who doesn’t bear much resemblance to the benevolent, all-powerful God of the biblical accounts and doesn’t guarantee much in the way of meaning to life.

There is a middle way, theologians and even some scientists like Mr. Miller keep insisting, but it’s not easily arrived at. The trouble with many of the new philosophies, like Mr. Miller’s idea of “evolutionary cosmology,” which sees our existence in the world as an inherent part of nature itself, is that they lack the clarity, simplicity and emotional satisfaction of traditional religion; and even what Stephen Jay Gould used to call the “cold bath” of Darwinism, when we finally get over thinking of ourselves as the pinnacle of life’s purpose, is in its own wayjust as powerful and arresting. Mr. Bowler thinks that if we understand the history of the debate better we might be able to depolarize it, but that may be too much to hope. Most of us are in the blissful position of having already made up our minds without bothering to think about it.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 08:30 am
@wandeljw,
Good topic, good idea, but for the NYT very sloppily written, dont you think wandel? was that from someones blog? I hate the "first draft" world of blogging. Even Meyers and Millers blogs suck from too much applied ego and not enough critical self inspection.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 08:44 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
It reveals a lot about the great American tradition of anti-intellectualism, which seems to be getting stronger, not weaker,

anti-intellectualism is one of the core problems. As long as people are proud of their ignorance, there can be no underlying drive to correct the problem. If every tom-dick-and-harry walking the streets were ashamed to not understand basic science, then I think it would be impossible for literal creationism to survive.

What is causing anti-intellectualism?

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 08:52 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Good topic, good idea, but for the NYT very sloppily written, dont you think wandel? was that from someones blog? I hate the "first draft" world of blogging. Even Meyers and Millers blogs suck from too much applied ego and not enough critical self inspection.


It was adequately written and a good deal less sloppy than the majority of the stuff wande puts up but, of course, it is a reasonably even handed effort so it's obvious effemm will seek to assert derogatory things about it.

As for "critical self inspection" effemm is a world leader in avoiding it.

That was another example in a very long chain of such examples of the use of a phrase which aims to associate effemm with a generally approved virtue by magical word spells and, true to form, not only without a hint of evidence, as there isn't for "sloppily" , but flying in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 09:06 am
@farmerman,
apparently my experiment investigating the nature of contrarianism was successful.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 09:30 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Good topic, good idea, but for the NYT very sloppily written, dont you think wandel? was that from someones blog? I hate the "first draft" world of blogging. Even Meyers and Millers blogs suck from too much applied ego and not enough critical self inspection.


This was from the New York Times Books Section, farmerman. I believe it also can be found in the Sunday New York Times print edition.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 09:37 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
What is causing anti-intellectualism?


Fear of course. Intellectualism is a very severe and ascetic position to take and only the bravest of heart dare take it on.

The idea that ros, or any other anti-IDer, has taken it on is laughable.

But Mr Hofstadter's famous book, published in '63 and a Pulitzer Prize winner, gives a fair idea.

As the average IQ is 100 intellectualism is out of the question for the average person. And IQ is easier to estimate in literary expression than in tests rigged to flatter those who pay the fees to take them.

If every tom-dick-and-harry walking the streets were ashamed to not understand basic science I would imagine a virulent market in artificial confidence boosters would arise. And schools, colleges and even universities would be required to play an important role. The personal beautification industry, a trillion dollar enterprise which lies with every breath, would not be sufficient on its own.

I once calculated how much of a syllabus a student needed to know to "pass" and it came to below 10% and that didn't take account of lax marking for those families with activist parents. Then the syllabus was dumbed down to help the cause.

The result is that very large segment of the population is hoodwinked into thinking itself knowledgeable on every subject it gives its attention to.

And there you go. The big hat, the swagger walk and the empty assertion rule the roost as long as pubs are avoided. Which leads to pubs being shut down and the mirror comes into its own.

It's not quite so bad here which might explain why our divorce rate is not as high as that in the US. How a lady can be expected to put up with a constant stream of bigoted, boring, opinionated, self flattering assertions until relieved by death is a mystery to me and high divorce rates suggest she isn't prepared to wait that long. And I don't blame her.

Imagine an anti-IDer at close quarters 24/ 365 for 50 years or more blowing his own trumpet at every opportunity. That's a violation of basic human rights as far as I'm concerned.
0 Replies
 
 

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