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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 07:24 am
@reasoning logic,
These guys have a relationship of dissing one another, going back for years. It's a fun catharsis, perhaps. Spendi may bemoan a lack of courtesy now and then, but his rudeness is surpassed by none on the board. The rest of us tolerate it because some real interesting information still makes it through.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 07:24 am
CREATIONISM IN SCOTLAND
Quote:
Top scientists tell Scottish pupils: the Bible is true
( Chris Watt, The Herald Scotland, 10 Oct 2010)

They are among Scotland’s most eminent scientists, they believe the world was created in six days and women were made from Adam’s rib ...and they’re coming to a school near you.

A new creationist group that preaches the “scientific” theory of intelligent design has set up in Glasgow with the stated aim of promoting its beliefs to schools and colleges.

The Centre for Intelligent Design, headed by a Northern Irish professor of genetics, a vice-president of the Royal College of Physicians and a former school inspector, has already prepared the ground for a clash with authorities.

The group’s director, Dr Alastair Noble, told the Sunday Herald it was “inevitable” the debate would make its way into schools – even though the Scottish Government says teachers should not regard intelligent design as science.

“We are definitely not targeting schools, but that doesn’t mean to say we may not produce resources that go to schools,” Dr Noble said, adding that he had already been asked to speak in Scottish schools, and agreed to do so.

The C4ID, as it calls itself online, insists its views are purely scientific, but critics have pointed to the leaders’ fundamentalist Christian backgrounds and the leaps of faith inherent in their logic.

Its president, Professor Norman Nevin OBE – a geneticist at Queen’s University in Belfast – told a meeting in the city earlier this year he believed Adam was “a real historical person”. He also said: “Genesis chapter 1-11, which indeed many Darwinists and evolutionists say is myth or legend, I believe is historical, and it is cited 107 times in the New Testament, and Jesus refers himself to the early chapters of Genesis at least 25 times.” In these books of the Bible, the universe is created in six days, God makes Eve out of Adam’s rib, and Noah saves the Earth by building an ark.

Dr Alastair Noble is a Glasgow University graduate who became a teacher and later HM inspector of schools. He is currently education officer for CARE, a Christian charity which campaigns for more faith teaching in schools.

Dr David Galloway, C4ID’s vice- president, is also vice-president of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons, and a member of the Lennox Evangelical Church in Dumbarton.

C4ID has now set up a base in Glasgow and runs a website. The group is financially based in Guernsey, and apparently funded solely by backers in Scotland, England and Northern Ireland.

Dr Noble denied the theory of intelligent design – that a universal engineer, or god, created the initial spark of life then used physical laws and natural selection to develop it – was religious.

“I think people are afraid of this debate because they sense it’s religion from the back door. They see it as an invasion of science with religion, but it most certainly is not that,” he said.

However, critics dismissed intelligent design as “a front for creationism”.

Paul Braterman, an emeritus professor of chemistry, now at Glasgow University, and a founder of the British Centre for Science Education, a campaign to keep religion out of science classes, said intelligent design was simply using God to plug the gaps that science has yet to answer.

Terry Sanderson, president of the National Secular Society, called on the Government to “keep a close eye on this organisation to ensure it doesn’t manage to wheedle its way into schools”.

James Gray, of the British Humanist Association, said the C4ID had a right to say what it liked, but guidelines were needed to “ensure this pseudoscience never finds its way into science classes”.

In 2007 the BHA successfully lobbied the UK Government to publish guidance on how teachers should deal with creationism south of the Border, but no such policy exists in Scotland.

Ann Ballinger, of the Scottish Secondary Teachers’ Association, urged ministers here to clarify the situation, while the EIS union said authorities should ensure teachers knew their position regarding intelligent design in the classroom.

A spokesman for the Scottish Government said ministers would be against any moves to teach intelligent design in science classes, stating “we do not recognise the teaching of intelligent design in a scientific context”.

However, teaching unions and councils said they were aware of no formal guidance on the subject.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 08:05 am
@wandeljw,
I can only guess that scientist have been doing this ever sense there have been scientist. I can only imagine that some will react this way no matter what their religion may be, even if they worship the elephant god. [Ganesha] Psycological disorders do not always limit a person from being a scientist.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 08:07 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
However, critics dismissed intelligent design as “a front for creationism”.


Yes--well--critics dismiss atheism as a front for general mayhem leading to totalitarian regulation and repression. And there are no in between positions.

So choose your poison wande and be done with it.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 09:25 am
@reasoning logic,
Intelligent design has always agreed that evolution is strobgly evidenced. They just dont buy Common descent for our genus and they feel that, if they search far enough back into the biochemistry of any organism, they will dicover an abrupt start, thus pointing to a "designer" (
However Dr whosis , by stating that the history of theearth as portrayed in Genesis is "Fact" merely shows his ignorance of other relevant scientific disciplines , thats all.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 09:41 am
@farmerman,
Yes you do seem to be correct I should try harder to use better words when I describe peoples ways of thinking maybe instead of people having a psychological problem I could say that they do not have all of the relevant scientific disciplines. I do think that it would sound better.
0 Replies
 
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 10:34 am
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

..> The comment that I made was ment to be in agreeance,
..> if I ever fall to such a level I would consider it to be ignorant of me.
..> I am only human so I am sure that I can behave in that way but I chose to try and reframe from that type of behavior.

Reframing is a good idea. Start with posting in your native tongue. On another forum. Change your name while you're about it, there's no such thing as "unreasoning" logic.

The good news is you got no lower to fall, you're already at the bottom level of ignorance.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 11:02 am
@farmerman,
Don't you think fm that the Drs, Whoses, who both seem amply qualified from a scientific point of view, far more so than yourself, are unaware of your reasons for asserting that they are ignorant of other relevant scientific disciplines? Do you seriously think that they are unprepared for such naive reproaches?

They obviously have some sort of hierarchy relating to the importance of the various scientific disciplines. The science of geology, for example, is almost insignificant when compared to those scientific disciplines which deal with the care and maintenance of the mores and methods of social organisation which we are habituated to, and which have proved so convenient to us, and in no way can be allowed to undermine the latter and superior disciplines. And the same applies to evolution science which is of almost zero interest to the vast majority of the population, despite the obsessions of those professionally engaged in it for whatever reason, whereas the inhibitions to the drift towards totalitarianism, an inevitable consequence of complexity in modern society which only some new form of Ludditism might prevent bearing it's blossoms and fruits, succulent though they might seem when thought of individually and partially and grossly subjectively. (see Ignore button in your own head) .

On what basis do you assume the ignorance of the professors regarding such a trivial and trite objection.

Well--I know the answer to that. It is that objections come from those who are ignorant of "relevant scientific disciplines" and not only ignorant but wilfully so. Selective exposure to already approved sources.

As if you have scientific discipline simply by dropping the phrase into your soundbite---the most effortless method known to mankind of posing as an expert in front of sodbusters--and a complete joke on the evidence you have provided and particulary that aspect of it which assumes a sodbuster audience. As that post and most of your posts do.

The sciences involving the creation of millions of human psyches, out of the mass of cranium glop, which are suitable for the pursuit of further progress and extravagances of luxuries, are sciences by the side of which geology and botany are insignificant and really only suitable as hobbies for parsons and vicars and curates.

When you can show that your project will bring us greater progress in regard to our subjugation of nature, which I assume you approve of, than the progress we have seen so far under a very mild Christian dispensation, somebody might take some notice of you, but as you never dare attempt such a thing we are well justified in treating you with considerable suspicion.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 11:29 am
@spendius,
You, As one who didnt even know what AVogadro's Number was , in another thread, yet claims to be a chemist, is demonstration enough of how much I should value your asshole opinions.
Youre a liar as well as a fool and a poseur.

spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 12:32 pm
@farmerman,
Still addressing sodbusters eh. As if knowing what Avogadro's Number is is science. You could teach it to kids. They wouldn't know what it meant and knowing the number doesn't mean any more. I once taught a 5 year old a definition of entropy which she then baffled her parents with. She couldn't do it a hour later mind you.

I preferred the jest anyway. I don't remember much about anything from those days. It was merely an item among many to pass an exam in rote-learning capacity. I never gave it a moments thought. I thought mention of it a jest.

Still--it got you past answering my post I suppose apart from three ignorant assertions which don't mean a thing.

And I'm not bothered how you value my opinions. You're not the only reader here.
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 12:46 pm
@wandeljw,
Yon wooly-pated mopes air scientists ? ! ? ! ? Greet, greet . . . the wor-rold is fecked nae, init.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 01:40 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
As if knowing what Avogadro's Number is is science
Now I know youre a poseur When I worked as a chemist, I used the constant several times a week to do various calcs. pharmacist?

WHADDA TOOL
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 01:51 pm
@Setanta,
ked ye lenn me ashellin teal Tewsdy.
Im air spectin a pohst w severral pounds.
Oy thenk yeh
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 01:58 pm
@farmerman,
I never went near any pharmacy fm. Isn't pharmacy anti-evolution? Except in the cultural sense of course but you can't discuss that can you because then you would have to show that atheism was a superior adaptation to Christianity? And you know you can't. Unless you think communist totalitarianism is superior to a free, democratic society at bringing home the bacon. I'm glad I'm not asked to go into bat for that. Pharmacy is not on the eugenicist's agenda.

I was in the sharp teeth side of the business. Evolution at high speed.
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 02:28 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

I never went near any pharmacy fm. Isn't pharmacy anti-evolution?.....
...I was in the sharp teeth side of the business. Evolution at high speed.

What does any of this mean?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 02:47 pm
@electronicmail,
Seems straighforward enough to me em.
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 02:50 pm
@spendius,
Sorry but even the Indian clown with his elephant god made more sense than you do in that post. And the guy doesn't even speak English, so that's a sobering thought for you.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 03:33 pm
@electronicmail,
chortle
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 04:36 pm
@electronicmail,
You've got it all wrong em. It makes perfect sense. It isn't my fault if you can't follow it. fm knows what it means and it was him it was directed at.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 04:43 pm
@spendius,
Hi Spenduis, Would you mind if I clowned around with all of what you all have said and not take it personally? Just trying to fit in
 

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