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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 09:25 am
ALABAMA UPDATE
Quote:
In Alabama politics, believing in evolution is a nasty smear
(Cynthia Tucker, Atlanta Journal-Constitution, May 12, 2010)

My home state of Alabama regularly ranks at or near the bottom in every ranking of comparative academic achievement, including drop-out rates, college completion and standardized test scores. You’d think every major politician would be vying to show that he or she could improve education in the state.

Not so. In the Republican primary for governor, a former college chancellor is fighting back against the charge that he believes in evolution. In Alabama politics, that’s a smear, so Bradley Byrne has made it clear he believes no such thing:
"• I believe the Bible is the Word of God and that every single word of it is true. From the earliest parts of this campaign, a paraphrased and incomplete parsing of my words have been knowingly used to insinuate that I believe something different than that. My faith is at the center of my life and my belief in Jesus Christ as my personal savior and Lord guides my every action.
• As a Christian and as a public servant, I have never wavered in my belief that this world and everything in it is a masterpiece created by the hands of God. As a member of the Alabama Board of Education, the record clearly shows that I fought to ensure the teaching of creationism in our school text books. Those who attack me have distorted, twisted and misrepresented my comments and are spewing utter lies to the people of this state."


Unfortunately, fighting for the teaching of “creationism” is way of ensuring that Education in Alabama remains an outpost of the Dark Ages. But Byrne apparently believed that was the only way he could win a GOP primary dominated by Know-Nothings.

Bryne was responding to an attack ad which painted him as a “liberal” for believing in science. I’m terribly disappointed in Bryne. He took over a corrupt two-college system and cleaned it out with tough leadership. I expected more from him.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 09:28 am
@spendius,
There are less poetic versions of the Sterne quote I gave earlier. The most extreme, I suppose, is the Pavlovian one.

This one is from John Morley who I have quoted before--

Quote:
With most men and women the master element in their opinion is obviously neither their own reason nor their own imagination, independently exercised, but only mere use and wont, chequered by fortuitious sensations, and modified in the better cases by the influence of a favourite teacher; while, in the worse, the teacher is the favourite who happens to chime in most harmoniously with prepossessions, or most effectually to nurse and exaggerate them. Among the superior minds the balance between reason and imagination is scarcely ever held exactly true, nor is either firmly kept within the precise bounds that are proper to it. It is a question of temperment how violently either of them straitens and distorts the normal faculties of vision. The man who prides himself on a hard head, which would usually be better described as a thin head, may and constantly does fall into a confirmed manner of judging character and circumstance, so narrow, one-sided, and elaborately superficial, as to make common sense shudder at the crimes that are committed in the divine name of reason. Excess, on the other side, leads people into emotional transports, in which the pre-eminent respect that is due to truth, the difficulty of discovering truth, the narrowness of the way that leads thereto, the merits of intellectual precision and definiteness, and even the merits of moral precision and definiteness, are all effectually veiled by purple or fiery clouds of anger, sympathy, and sentimentalism, which imagination has hung over intelligence.


Which is to say that militant atheists, taking the names of reason and science in vain, are as conditioned by "fortuitous sensations" (usually sexual) as comprehensively as any well trained dog is by chunks of Pedigree Chum and that they are no better and no worse, only differing in sentiment, than the most rabid religious fundamentalist with whom they fall naturally into a symbiotic relationship with in order to better facilitate each other's need to empty their lungs in the faces of their unfortunate companions, for want of anything else to say, and, with some effort, to extract money from their pockets with which to fill their own.

One might say that this distinction between excess of both the poetic and the scientific temper, exercised separately but together, is equally stupid and boring as it takes place outside of any known reality. It is essentially parasitical taking its necessary energy inputs from outside the ridiculous circles in which its practioner's egos wank themselves off.

The consequences of the rest of us taking either side seriously are dire in the extreme although it is worth saying that the imaginative side have the best tunes and provide some useful inspirations from which to derive that circumstance which we are, or most of us are, devoutly hoping to consummate at reasonably regular intervals, when other exterior threats are extinguished, and I sincerely hope that such is not the case with scientific methodology which is easily shown to actually inhibit the procedure. Or it is in those whose natural reflexes have begun to fade to make make way for the applications of taste and decorum.

The paucity of imagination seen on this thread from militant atheists, which is pitiful to see in view of the length of a modern education, is matched by the paucity of reason of their counterparts, equally pitiful, and travelling companions. Both sides turned up at Dover, took a pile of $$$$s off the less influential locals and got nowhere of any significance.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 09:41 am
@wandeljw,
Can Cynthia not stand at the election wande. She seems to "know everything". One does have to know everything to claim that others know nothing.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution is owned by Cox Enterprises which is an outfit we have seen before on these threads.

Would it be too much wande to expect you to bring your own thoughts into this thread occasionally rather than those of the editorial boards of giant media corporations. We have done Cox Enterprises before, many times, and know that it is 98% owned by an octogenarian lady whose filtered thoughts are getting tiresome if only from their repetition.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 09:45 am
@spendius,
beatitudes.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2010 09:11 am
Quote:
Science is not some plot bent on making your life meaningless
(By JIM ALMENDINGER, Stillwater Gazette, May 12, 2010)

Recent letters printed in the Gazette have, once again, placed the views of the fringe on center stage. These views falsely pit religion against science, when no such conflict exists in the minds of most adults. Let's get a few things straight.

1) Belief in evolutionary theory does not preclude belief in God. Evolution, like all scientific theories, is mute on the existence of God - it neither denies nor requires God. The question of God's existence is simply outside the purview of science.

Science is the systematic investigation of natural phenomena. It does not explain these phenomena by invoking supernatural intervention.

Should such intervention occur, science will not be the vehicle of identification; science is limited that way. It politely leaves room for religion.

2) For all intents and purposes, religion requires a belief in the supernatural, and commonly in beings called gods. At least it does so in my dictionary, and in the Bible, too, for that matter.

I was raised in the Christian church, so I use the word God. Those who would call atheism and secular humanism "religions" do so at the peril of removing God from His central defining role in all religions. If you tell me that Secular Humanism is a religion, then you're telling me that God is not required for religion. I would think that notion would be insulting to most churches.

You cannot arbitrarily start labeling any belief as a religion, without cheapening the true meaning of religion.

3) "Intelligent design" (ID) is in fact creationism being paraded about on stage in the emperor's clothing, and it's not a pretty sight.

Teaching ID is tantamount to teaching that God created the world in its present form. Such teaching is fine for Sunday school, but utterly inappropriate for science class. Contrary to claims in recent letters, ID does indeed invoke supernatural intervention and is therefore not science. Suppose there were such a designer of our world. One must then necessarily ask the recursive question, who designed the designer? And then, who designed the designer's designer? At some point, you reach God.

Those who say that ID is not creationism, and does not require God, are intentionally trying to deceive you. They are trying to get their religious beliefs taught in science classes in public schools, in direct violation of the establishment clause of the first amendment.

4) "Teaching the controversy" is what creationists call teaching their evidence, which they believe disproves evolution. Unfortunately for the creationists, their so-called evidence has been duly examined and found false or irrelevant.

There simply is no "controversy" in the scientific community. Schools must not be made to teach such misleading ideas. Make no mistake about it: "teaching the controversy" is the same as teaching ID, which is creationism. The fact is, evolutionary theory is being tested, investigated, and refined daily by hundreds of projects at all levels of biology, from molecular genetics to global biogeography.

Testing hypotheses, including all portions of evolutionary theory, is what scientists do for a living. Those who think they can disprove evolutionary theory are invited to submit their findings to the scientific community for publication.

I'm weary of those whose faith is so thin that it is threatened by science.

I'm wary of those who think so poorly of their church that they think it is an inadequate platform from which to teach its own beliefs. I'm wary of those who care so little about freedom of religion and separation of church and state that they feel the need to promote their religious beliefs in public schools. I'm especially wary of those who do these things under false pretenses by calling their agenda "intelligent design" and pretending it has no religious motivation.

You may think you're cleverly hiding behind a protective cloak of invisibility, but your cloak is like cellophane: thin, brittle, and transparent. Any adult can see right through it.

Mostly, I want to affirm what common sense suggests to most of you. Science is not some plot to separate you from God and make your life meaningless - science is the human endeavor to figure out how the world works.

There is no conflict with believing in a loving God who engenders a harmonious society and provides comfort in the face of human mortality. There are complimentary but separate roles to be played by both science and religion in our society.

Science tells us how, and religion tells us why. The fundamentalist fringe has confused the two. Pay them no heed.

Listen to your common sense.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2010 09:53 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
I'm weary of those whose faith is so thin that it is threatened by science.
My sentiments exactly !
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2010 01:42 pm
@Ionus,
But Io what has happened in your reading of wande's quote from a newspaper with a 3,100 circulation, better written than wande's usual fare though it is, is that the argument drifts between science and evolution. You can get thinking that the two terms are equivalent. The argument is not about science. It is about one small aspect of science which a lot of people think undermines religion. No other aspect of the vast field of science does that. The whole of Islam thinks it does.

And there are good arguments that evolution isn't good science. It might even be misleading because the theory itself can't predict success even when it itself is defining what success means which is by no means a safe thing to do. What sort of horse is the modern racehorse. It's lame after galloping a mile on going the firm side of good. Which is to say dead in the wild.

At best it's a useful tool and at the worst is a danger. I think that the more people know about it the more it will be rejected. It's proponents have made a strategic blunder in bringing it into the public domain for examination. They think that their limited arguments are a pushover because those limited arguments are the only ones they consider and they put the rest on Ignore.

It's a theory for shallow minds. It's seeming simplicity is its attraction.



spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2010 05:08 pm
@spendius,
What was that Fox News report last night about two students giving a copulation demonstration in a California classroom? Was it true?

If you're going to teach evolution theory you might as well do it properly.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2010 07:48 pm
@Ionus,
Dont get out much do ya? You live in "Belonga Mick"?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2010 08:18 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Dont get out much do ya? You live in "Belonga Mick"?
Does that mean soemthing to you because it is meaningless to me.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 03:53 am
@Ionus,
What it means Io is that fm wanted to stay in the debate but had nothing to say. So he bleated.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 08:03 am
@spendius,
You are right in criticising evolution. The reaction to that criticism by most is to say you must be a creationist. The danger for science in creating something that nearly works is you can do the same with the earth as the centre of the solar system. It nearly works. These are early days for DNA, but I think there will be some embarrassed shuffling of ideas by evolutionists, but I dont think there will be a major rewrite of the concept. That seems fairly solid. I am confident that many cherished parts of evolution theory will be rewritten within the next 50 years.
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 09:47 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
I am confident that many cherished parts of evolution theory will be rewritten within the next 50 years.
Wow, is this supposed to be listed in "Deep thoughts from URANUS"?
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 10:25 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:
I am confident that many cherished parts of evolution theory will be rewritten within the next 50 years.
Wow, is this supposed to be listed in "Deep thoughts from URANUS"?


Hehehehehe. Okay, bye now.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 11:20 am
@farmerman,
Another burst from the scattoshooter.

How often do you have to whitewash the shithouse walls fm?

But I can't say I agree with Io that many cherished parts of evolution theory will be rewritten within the next 50 years. I don't think the two times table will be either.

Of course he might be predicting Spengler's "Second Religiousness" coming to pass and those scientists who won't accept that Noah led the animals onto the Ark two by two and rowed into the sunset will get a red hot poker up their arses.

Not Noah of course. He was the Captain and everybody knows that Captains don't do any rowing. Or felling and sawing and hammering and planing and trapping the fingers and rounding up the animals. Because the Captain said it's going to piss down for forty days and nights the night camp was made in the dried up river bed.

If the Second Religiouness does come within 50 years, which is unlikely, in full swing I mean, it is obvious that the Bible will be its basic text because there's nothing to touch it. It's hard to imagine another version thought up from scratch, on what would be in astronomical time, the spur of the moment, with, say, Adam being delivered of a monkey. It would save money though in that field of research which seeks the fabled Missing Link.

We could have been beamed in like in Star Trek. Deported, transported, ostracised as nothing but no good trouble-making assholes. There's plenty of evidence for that. The Galactic Ship sends a working party to earth to set up one of those cubicles Scottie often "appeared" in so that the Parole Board could keep their jobs and allow the return of those who saw the error of their ways from time to time. The remainder being the dregs of the Universe. Unreformed rapists and those who hold doors open for ladies, which are behaviour patterns some feminists find equally degrading.

The idea of the Second Religiousness coming is posited on an evolutionary "need" (besoin) for it to come in the event that No Religiousness fails us. It is not a matter of argument at all. Which is precisely where you betray your lack of a proper scientific sensibility which is there to observe and report and not get up on a pedestal preaching and prophesying.



0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 06:05 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

Quote:
Science is not some plot bent on making your life meaningless
(By JIM ALMENDINGER, Stillwater Gazette, May 12, 2010)

Science tells us how, and religion tells us why. The fundamentalist fringe has confused the two.

Actually, religion doesn't tell us why either. And it's not just the fundamentalist fringe who has confused the two. Most people would probably say that science explains the "how" of things, and religion explains the "why", but if you really think about that, it isn't true. Do all religions collectively tell us anything at all? Other than the blindingly obvious fact that humanity doesn't yet understand itself. We don't need religion to know that.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 06:32 pm
@rosborne979,
ALthough there are many who try to push a story that its possible to be religious and a worker in biological science, Its been my experience that those who claim that the above is true, are busy dwelling at the edge of science where their guy in the sky still dwells.
Cosmology is a favorite haunt today. Because its so heavily invested in "mathturbation, it must be under some gods warranty plan.
small pods of Evangelical Christians are the most objectionable t me. They claim a "belief in a real science" and then start popping off nonsense that a god of the gaps is their reality
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 08:27 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Quote:
I am confident that many cherished parts of evolution theory will be rewritten within the next 50 years.
Wow, is this supposed to be listed in "Deep thoughts from URANUS"?
I have no confidence in your ability to list the sexes, let alone understand that your cherished science may need to expand. Your fundamentalist devotion to what is known now will make you very foolish if you live long enough. Cheer up Gomer, when you are dead that will be the end of you.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 08:29 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Hehehehehe. Okay, bye now.
Even as a cheer squad you lack ability.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 08:51 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Your fundamentalist devotion to what is known now will make you very foolish if you live long enough.
Show me where my critique of your numskullidy anywhere says that I have a Thompsonian belief of a concept that "everything is now known, we can learn no more"?
Thats what I mean ANUS, if youre not busy trying to recast your own questions, youre busy trying to recast what others have said.


I was merely commenting upon how you are the "MAster of the Bleedin Obvious", and The Minister of "the Ministry of Silly Walks"

Quote:
I am confident that many cherished parts of evolution theory will be rewritten within the next 50 years.
Shall I alert the media?

How many brain cells did you have to sacrifice to come up with that? IMAGINE, you are confident that many "Cherished parts"",.... ,my my my, what boldness you convey. NAme me one part of evolutionary theory that is "cherished" , by whom are they cherished? Are you gifted of these brainfarts on a frequent basis or do they just come up when you post here?
 

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