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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 08:16 pm
@wandeljw,
Sounds like Bobby J is trying to sound like Stephen King, and not doing such a great job at it.

"If she diesd, on the floor, shed be eatin Roast Beef and mashed taters with Jesus this very afternoon" said Big Jin.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 09:59 pm
Fish caught evolving into 3 different species
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 07:30 am
For entertainment purposes only.

I made this snidey remark last Friday--

Quote:
You anti-IDers have a lot hanging on a well-off young man who eagerly chose to spend five uncomfortable years at close quarters with a madman without the company of the County girls in their bonnets and crinolines.


I have to take my hat off to Clare Short who said this morning to the Chilcot Enquiry about a senior American official--

"He had spent a lot of time in submarines--and it showed."

Perhaps the sweet innocence of anti-IDers, a protective innocence I feel, has prevented them being abled to decode my remark. So I offer Ms Short's far wittier version as a possibly more useful guide.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 07:41 am
@parados,
I would be reticent in calling that science parados.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 08:38 am
Slow snails are quick to make new species
"These findings could help solve the centuries-old puzzle of why groups or taxa of organisms vary so much in how many species they possess, Kisel said."
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 08:42 am
@spendius,
It does point out the silliness of your statements spendi since it has nothing to do with a man taking a voyage 150 years ago.

You do however seem to think a lot of your own comments after spending over 20 years cooped up nightly with drunks. Perhaps they are a willing audience being in their cups.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 09:01 am
@parados,
I can assure you parados that well oiled debaters are the most difficult of all. Drunk to me means falling over and gibbering. You get a bit of that in pubs but it's not that big a problem.

Perhaps you might risk regular visits to the same group of people late at night yourself sometime. One can get a trifle narow minded by restricting your social contacts to pre-approved people. The big advantage of pubs is that the contacts are not pre-approved.

0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 10:18 am
The Adventist university in California is supporting the right of its biology professors to teach evolution. Church members had petitioned that the school should teach creationism instead.

Quote:
LSU FACULTY SENATE AFFIRM ACADEMIC FREEDOM & BIOLOGY COLLEAGUES
(Adventist Today, January 29th, 2010)

The Faculty Senate of La Sierra University (LSU) has unanimously approved a resolution that affirmed faculty commitment to the "preservation of academic freedom with intellectual and moral integrity in the context of our heritage, and service as a Seventh-day Adventist Christian University." It issued this declaration in the context of their "strong support for our colleagues in the Department of Biology."

In the preamble to the resolution the LSU Faculty Senate noted the activities of "certain off-campus persons" who "have publicly attacked, and circulated a petition against, the faculty of this department for including in their classes the evolutionary aspects of the modern biosciences [and] have attempted to dictate to the University-including its administration, trustees, and faculty-the content of aspects of the bioscience curriculum."

The full text of the Faculty Senate Resolution is as follows:


La Sierra University Faculty Senate Resolution

Affirmation of Support

For the Department of Biology, College of Arts and Sciences

Whereas the Department of Biology
has trained at the undergraduate level in the biological sciences thousands of students who have become successful professionals-physicians, dentists, and pharmacists, as well as distinguished academic scientists;
has excelled in the scholarly publication of scientific research;
is recognized for its outstanding teaching, enhancing the excellence that has long characterized La Sierra University; and
has been active in service to the community and to the church; and
Whereas certain off-campus persons
have publicly attacked, and circulated a petition against, the faculty of this department for including in their classes the evolutionary aspects of the modern biosciences;
have attempted to dictate to the University-including its administration, trustees, and faculty-the content of aspects of the bioscience curriculum;
have not followed the protocol established by Jesus and outlined in Matthew 18:15-17;
have thus made the work and lives of these dedicated Adventist professors more stressful and difficult;
Therefore, be it resolved, that the Faculty Senate of La Sierra University, representing the combined faculty of the College of Arts and Sciences, the School of Business, the School of Education, and the School of Religion,
affirm our strong support for our colleagues in the Department of Biology;
and affirm our commitment to the preservation of academic freedom with intellectual and moral integrity in the context of our heritage, and service as a Seventh-day Adventist Christian University.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 11:32 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:
Quote:
LSU FACULTY SENATE AFFIRM ACADEMIC FREEDOM & BIOLOGY COLLEAGUES
(Adventist Today, January 29th, 2010)

The Faculty Senate of La Sierra University (LSU) has unanimously approved a resolution that affirmed faculty commitment to the "preservation of academic freedom with intellectual and moral integrity in the context of our heritage, and service as a Seventh-day Adventist Christian University."


Is LSU public or private?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 11:43 am
@rosborne979,
It is private and affiliated with the Seventh Day Adventist Church.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 11:47 am
@wandeljw,
Bearing in mind the phrase "in the context of our heritage" the whole post is meaningless. I can't see any objection to teaching evolution science "in the context of our heritage."

I thought the argument was about teaching it scientifically using teachers prepared to do that.

The pats on the back the LSU has given itself are not unlike Ms Forrest's "dozens of letters".

To able ros to know--

Quote:
Founded in 1922, La Sierra University, formerly known as La Sierra College, is a private, co-educational Christian university located in inland Southern California in the city of Riverside, California. La Sierra University is part of the Seventh-day Adventist system of higher education. The University is accredited by the Western Association of Schools and Colleges.


Not, self-evidently, a crew of superstitious, marginalised IDiots.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 02:11 pm
@rosborne979,
This entire "academic Freedom" bullshit, just like "teach the controversy" is based upon the same search for credibility that the Holocaust deniers want.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 02:22 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

It is private and affiliated with the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

So If they're private I guess they can do whatever they want?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 04:30 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
This entire "academic Freedom" bullshit, just like "teach the controversy" is based upon the same search for credibility that the Holocaust deniers want.


You never learn do you fm? You cannot imagine that another motive is what the search for credibilty is "based upon" and that the hidden motive does have credibility. And that the discretions surrounding it are such that it was not even thought to expose Judge Jones to those applicable at Dover.

That was like this thread. The anti-ID side was easy to attack by a side that never had to make its own side's case because its atheist utopia is so far out of sight that only fairly acute observers can get a glimpse of it and many do not even wish to. They have it on Ignore. Many movies and books have attemped to show it and in different ways but there's a subtext in them all of us as zombies.

You always think that what you think is happening is what is actually happening and you are rather fond of letting us all know post haste in some generalities so sweeping they are meaningless. Like "in the context of our heritage".

And you should either argue with that or take it on board.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2010 06:49 am
TEXAS UPDATE: Don McLeroy has a strong challenger in the Republican primaries on March 2. Whoever wins the Republican primary will run unopposed in the November election.
Quote:
Editorial: We recommend Ratliff for SBOE District 9
(Dallas Morning News, February 2, 2009)

We recommend Thomas Ratliff over incumbent Don McLeroy in the Republican primary for the State Board of Education's District 9 for several reasons. Most important is the fact that the Mount Pleasant resident could move this board beyond its culture-war conflicts.

Unfortunately, since being appointed as chairman in 2007, the 63-year-old McLeroy has helped lead the board into skirmishes involving evolution, reading standards and social studies content. The panel even got bogged down debating hip-hop versus country music. The rancor grew so routine that the Texas Senate last year refused to confirm the Bryan dentist as chairman.

McLeroy, a board member since 1999, undoubtedly cares about education. But this panel could use Ratliff's more practical approach to keep its work focused on essential issues. He's not an ideological brawler and could develop consensus.

Ratliff has had experience doing just that while serving on boards at his children's public schools in East Texas. And he says he would listen to teachers and superintendents in determining what students should know. Setting standards is a key function of this board, and Ratliff, 42, would be more in touch with educators than McLeroy. While Ratliff shouldn't become their captive, Texans are better served by someone who takes teachers' points of view seriously in crafting curriculum.

We also prefer Ratliff's emphasis on depoliticizing appointments of outside advisers, including those who handle the state's sizable education funds. The board has run into problems in selecting investment advisers.

A lobbyist himself, Ratliff swears he will disassociate himself from decisions that could involve a client. He certainly kept his lobbying business at arm's length from his father, Bill Ratliff, when the Republican served as lieutenant governor in 2001.

The winner of this primary will be unopposed in the November election. Voters in this district, which runs through parts of East Texas and Collin County, would benefit from Ratliff's sensible style and approach.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2010 07:19 am
That's a well written editorial. It avoids fulminating against the incumbent, and focuses on what it claims are the strengths of the challenger. It avoids the worst excesses of partisan rhetoric.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2010 07:48 am
@wandeljw,
That's all based on nebulous assertions wande-

Quote:
We recommend Thomas Ratliff over incumbent Don McLeroy in the Republican primary for the State Board of Education's District 9 for several reasons. Most important is the fact that the Mount Pleasant resident could move this board beyond its culture-war conflicts.


That's not even a reason. Why "could" instead of "will". And that is the "most important reason". And where exactly is "beyond its culture-war conflicts"?

Quote:
Unfortunately, since being appointed as chairman in 2007, the 63-year-old McLeroy has helped lead the board into skirmishes involving evolution, reading standards and social studies content.


Unfortunate for whom? Certainly not the Dallas Morning News which, but for Mr McLeroy, would have to find something else to pontificate about and publish on the back side of adverts. Not for you yourself either wande. No McLeroy no wande quotes. Nor for all those who make a public show on the matter. Shouldn't there be skirmishes involving evolution, reading standards and social studies content? Isn't skirmishing the essence of democracy? Will Mr Ratliff be skirmish free?

Quote:
The panel even got bogged down debating hip-hop versus country music.


"Bogged down" eh? Yeah--well!!! And it's a reasonable debate. Music is an important cultural determinant.

Quote:
The rancor grew so routine that the Texas Senate last year refused to confirm the Bryan dentist as chairman.


There might have been other reasons. One might expect "rancor" if one put oneself forward for a BoE position in a 2 party situation.


Quote:
But this panel could use Ratliff's more practical approach to keep its work focused on essential issues. He's not an ideological brawler and could develop consensus.


Assertions with a dreamlike quality. If a consensus is attained then no further elections are needed.

Quote:
Ratliff has had experience doing just that while serving on boards at his children's public schools in East Texas. And he says he would listen to teachers and superintendents in determining what students should know. Setting standards is a key function of this board, and Ratliff, 42, would be more in touch with educators than McLeroy. While Ratliff shouldn't become their captive, Texans are better served by someone who takes teachers' points of view seriously in crafting curriculum.


This time the dreamlike quality is qualified with the pious hope that Mr Ratliff "shouldn't become their captive". If the teachers are to be taken seriously why have a BoE at all? It seems an unnecessary layer of expense in that case.

Quote:
We also prefer Ratliff's emphasis on depoliticizing appointments of outside advisers, including those who handle the state's sizable education funds. The board has run into problems in selecting investment advisers.


That's a joke surely. Don't most organisations run into problems in selecting investment advisers? Even the Government.

Quote:
A lobbyist himself


A Prince of Darkness.

Quote:
Ratliff swears he will disassociate himself from decisions that could involve a client. He certainly kept his lobbying business at arm's length from his father, Bill Ratliff, when the Republican served as lieutenant governor in 2001.


Sheesh!!! 'Scuse my looking at the ceiling.

Quote:
The winner of this primary will be unopposed in the November election. Voters in this district, which runs through parts of East Texas and Collin County, would benefit from Ratliff's sensible style and approach.


I'm sure they would assuming Mr Ratliff actually will bring a "sensible style and approach" to the table.

It looks like he has good friends at the Dallas Morning News which looks to be an organisation which takes a rather dim view of its customers and one this is amply justified in respect of those who read that load of cobblers and thought it meant something.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2010 08:12 am
Quote:
Circulation controversy
The Dallas Morning News has been accused of inflating its circulation numbers to keep advertiser revenue high. In the mid-1980s, the paper was sued by the rival Times Herald, charging that the News was overstating circulation increases. In 2004, long after the Times Herald had ceased printing, The Dallas Morning News admitted it had indeed underreported circulation decreases, and had overstated Sunday circulation by 11.9% and daily circulation by 5.1%. The Morning News promised to pay advertisers US$23 million in restitution. The circulation problems worsened parent company Belo's financial condition. In late 2004, Belo Corporation laid off 250 workers, including 150 at the Morning News. Two years later, The News offered a voluntary severance package which was taken by more than 100 staffers. The newspaper has continued to regularly lay off talented, longtime employees, most recently in October 2008 and April 2009.

In October 2009, the Audit Bureau of Circulations reported that The Dallas Morning News has a circulation of 263,810 (Monday through Friday) for a six-month period ending in September 2009. That figure represented a 22 percent drop in circulation from the same six-month period in 2008. The News, once among the top 10 newspapers in America, is now the country's 19th largest newspaper, according to the Bureau of Circulations.

2010 Governor Debate Controversy
During the 2010 election year for the Texas Governorship, Dallas Morning News owned by the Belo Corp. stifled Republican candidate Debra Medina by keeping her out of their sponsored debate with K. Bailey Hutchison and Rick Perry. By the thousands, Texas voters sent e-mails and phoned Dallas Morning News and Belo to no avail. The debate will be held on January 29th 2010.


Further research indicates that the CEO of the A.H. Belo Corporation, Mr Robert W Decherd, has inherited his position through his family connections much like do our aristocrats.


0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2010 01:57 pm
@Setanta,
It does imply that MclEroy is an aging brick in the road to educational progress in the Great State a Texass.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2010 03:26 pm
@farmerman,
I think an implied aging brick is just as bad as an implied new- fired one when its in the road.

One has by now to suppose that "educational progress" is defined to your own satisfaction.

That you think your sentence has any meaning fm signifies that educational progress never happened to you.
0 Replies
 
 

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