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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 08:41 am
@Setanta,
I think some of the conclusions that Set has come to in regard to these obviously important matters, and the language with which they have been expressed in, are hardly justified from the position of not having paid "much attention" and from a "casual study", whatever that might mean.

Decisions in relation to the education of a nation's kids require a little more attention and study than that.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 08:51 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
I hope that the makeup of the ed board is safe from political winds.


Could you name a developed country where secondary education policy is not subject to political considerations fm?

Your whole position seems to be posited on meaningless and ridiculous remarks of that nature.

Are there any institutions of government, either national or local, that are not subject to "political winds"?

You really do like the sound of your own voice.

Does any contributor on here agree with fm that secondary education policy should be cut adrift from politics.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 12:28 pm
Quote:
Texas Board Delays Vote; Defends Christian Influence in U.S. History
(Nathan Black, The Christian Post, Jan. 16, 2010)

The Texas State Board of Education has delayed its first vote on a new social studies curriculum to March.

The vote was scheduled for Friday but the board said it needed additional time to evaluate and revise curriculum standards for Texas public schools.

Amendments to the standards that determine what children will study in social studies class were debated Wednesday. More than 100 people signed up to testify before the board, either defending or opposing some of the proposed revisions that would be in place for the next ten years.

Steven K. Green, professor of Law at Willamette University flew in from Salem, Ore., to oppose efforts to "simplify, sanitize and sanctify" the content of history, government and social studies curriculums in schools.

He argued that the proposals to emphasize the religious influences on the nation's founding principles are "inaccurate and unwarranted."

"I fully support exposing children to the religious influences of our nation's history. Religion has played a very important ideological and institutional role in the nation's government," Green acknowledged. "However, there is a crucial pedagogical and legal difference between the academic study of our religious past and exposure of children to misleading religious truth claims particularly if they're for the purpose of instilling religious devotion."

While amendments to the social studies curriculum standards cover a host of topics including Hispanic figures to Christianity, much of the debate has centered on the latter.

Some of the proposed revisions that have riled up church-state separation activists include ones that would require students to "identify major intellectual, philosophical, political, and religious traditions that informed the American founding, including Judeo-Christian (especially biblical law), English Common Law and constitutionalism, Enlightenment, and Republicanism, as they address issues of liberty, rights, and responsibilities of individuals."

Green, who was invited by the Texas Freedom Network " an organization of religious and community leaders advocating for church-state separation " to speak at Wednesday's hearing, stood firmly against some of the proposals emphasizing religion.

"Too much attention can be given to the fact that our founders occasionally used religious discourse in their formal statements," said Green, who described himself as a product of Texas public schools. "Biblical rhetoric was ubiquitous during the founding era but such rhetoric tells us very little about the founders' religious devotions and more importantly, about their desire to instill those values into a system of government."

The historian denounced the practice of prooftexting, where isolated statements are taken out of context and then offered as proof of a figure's religious devotion.

"This is bad history," Green asserted.

He further contended, "Claims of a profound religious influence on the founding period and its participants should always be approached with caution if not skepticism. The founders were influenced primarily by enlightenment rationalism, not by a Calvinist understanding of depravities."

Several of the State Board of Education members expressed doubts about Green's testimony and did not hide their dissent.

Don McLeroy asked Green, "Would you characterize our nation was founded on secular and not biblical principles?"

Green replied saying if he had to defer to one or the other, then he would choose secular. The founding principles, he said, were based on enlightenment rationalism. For example, occasional references to the Creator in historic documents" actually reflect enlightenment thought more than they indicate any connection to modern understandings of Christian faith," he argued.

When Green claimed that enlightenment broke from a reliance on biblical based law, McLeroy looked at the professor with skepticism.

"My understanding is when I look at enlightenment principles, it sprung up in Christendom," the board member maintained.

Green was grilled by other board members, including Ken Mercer who noted that all 50 state constitutions have references to God, thus demonstrating that Judeo-Christian influence was apparent not just in the 1700s but all throughout U.S. history. Mercer expressed clear dissent with the Salem, Ore., professor.

The delayed initial vote on an updated curriculum moves the final vote and adoption of new social studies standards, originally scheduled for March, to May. The new standards will dictate what some 4.8 million K-12 students learn over the next decade and could also affect textbooks used by schools nationwide.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 12:57 pm
They know they will look like idiots, but in the end they will approves as much fundamentalist crap as they feel they can get away with.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 01:02 pm
They won't care if they look like idiots to "foreigners," nor if they look like idiots to Texans who don't share their religious beliefs. They're preaching to the choir here, and assuring the choir that they can have their cake and eat it, too.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 01:40 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
They know they will look like idiots, but in the end they will approves as much fundamentalist crap as they feel they can get away with.


But they think you are talking crap Ed. So all your post means is that you said it on here and they say it where it counts. The former is useless crap and the latter is not.

As a resident in the state you might be better employed giving your viewpoint somewhere else because on here it is pissing into the wind. It certainly isn't an argument. It's venting. An example of how not to count politically whilst pretending you are doing.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 01:45 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
They know they will look like idiots, but in the end they will approves as much fundamentalist crap as they feel they can get away with.


But they think you are talking crap Ed. So all your post means is that you said it on here and they say it where it counts. The former is useless crap and the latter is not.

As a resident in the state you might be better employed giving your viewpoint somewhere else because on here it is pissing into the wind. It certainly isn't an argument. It's venting. An example of how not to count politically whilst pretending you are doing.


Firstly, you don't know what I do in that regard, when off of a2k. Secondly, I see Texas politicians initially say something quite reasonable, quite often, only to backtrack to the fundamentalist view almost immediately, particularly this close to elections. They all are aware of the world view as opposed to their own bullshit work. Money and position trumps all.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 02:02 pm
@farmerman,
In 1994, in Peloza v. Capistrano School District, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a district court finding that a teacher's First Amendment right to free exercise of religion is not violated by a school district's requirement that evolution be taught in biology classes. Rejecting plaintiff Peloza's definition of a "religion" of "evolutionism", the Court found that the district had simply and appropriately required a science teacher to teach a scientific theory in biology class. (John E. Peloza v. Capistrano Unified School District, (1994) 37 F. 3rd 517)
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 02:37 pm
@Lightwizard,
The state of California has adopted the textbook Biology: Principles & Explorations (2001) by George B. Johnson and Peter H. Raven, published by Holt, Rinehart, and Winston, as its official biology textbook for high school biology classes. Fundamentalist Christian zealots are pissed as it does not even hint at a supernatural cause but gives the naturalistic alternatives determined to be backed up by convincing scientific findings. Dover was not a "show trial" just because the Discovery Institute and their thugs were challenged. There have been hundreds of them since the Monkey Trial as the believers in the supernatural want to throw their own monkey wrenches into the public school system.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 03:01 pm
@Lightwizard,
Thats very similar to the Pa hearings in 2002. In those hearings the ed board established the basis that the scientific method must be able to describe the aspect of science that is sought to be taught. Up until that point several other school districts had not even required that the theories of science pevail in science c;lasses. Dover was probably the last ditch effort on behalf of the myth based worldview as opposed to evidence and sci method based.

IMHO were going to be fighting these stupid cultural battles from house to house until the Constitution prevails and , by extension so will good science.
Pas laws on home schooling are now under attack from the religious right. The requirements for competence and attainment based upon state standards are being challenged at various local levels.
The state ed dept has threatened to withhold the 6000$ per student that is offered up to the school districts for home schooling assistance. When money is involved perhaps the zealots will be convinced to teach proper science and to keep the bullshit mythology separated from academics.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 03:57 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Firstly, you don't know what I do in that regard, when off of a2k.


Whatever it is Ed if you go around declaring the other side's arguments to be "crap" nobody will take any notice of you and if you keep it up I can see people avoiding your company.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 04:01 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Does any contributor on here agree with fm that secondary education policy should be cut adrift from politics.


What's with the big silence boys? Political effectiveness is a function of sticking together.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 04:22 pm
@spendius,
Crap.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 06:14 pm
@edgarblythe,
Thin light brown squiteroonie running out of your trouser leg and dribbling away down the slope into a pool to the consternation of the respectable ladies unfortunate enough to witness the event and requiring the deployment of a basket of clothes pegs.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 06:34 pm
@spendius,
When ya gonna wise up, spendi?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 07:09 pm
@edgarblythe,
Never--I don't buy gobby atheists mate. I have known a few. They have no idea. And what's worse is that they are certain that they have.

They are the most boring people on the planet. Especially the ones with degrees and PhDs. The rest are simply ridiculous. They can't even shrug their shoulders.

And they are outvoted.



edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 07:47 pm
@spendius,
Smug crap. You don't have a clue outside of being able to make references to authors who have no bearing on things.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 07:58 pm
@edgarblythe,
It's not even smug crap; it's more like claptrap.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jan, 2010 05:19 am
@cicerone imposter,
How old were you ci. when you started going around saying that sort of thing and how many times have you blurted it since?

Do you deploy it for every occasion you are in disagreement with anybody?

It is incoherent you should know.

If it wasn't you should surely have been president or at least the most sought after counsel in the world. The reason you're neither is because the argument has no value.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jan, 2010 05:21 am
@spendius,
Ditto for Ed's silly post.
0 Replies
 
 

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