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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 06:40 pm
@spendius,
How can christianity evolve? It's the word of god, and the two thousand year old book called the bible is static. You cannot change any words, because that would be blasphemy!
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 06:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
If you knew the history ci. you would know how many changes and adaptations have been made. But you don't so we will have to continue putting up with your ignorant and stupid remarks which are all in the service of justifying your rejection of a few of the adaptations, not by any means all of them, probably associated with certain types of immorality.

Not a scientific principle in sight. How could there be when you haven't a scientific bone in your body.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 08:07 pm
@edgarblythe,
That's still in the realm of social evolution, never really proven that it has any link to biological evolution (natural selection) which has many influences forcing the invention of a belief in deities. The Voltaire paradox that if there were no god, it would be necessary to invent one. The reason is partly environmental -- the fear of nature's wrath. The fear of the randomness of death -- if the earthquake, tornado or tsunami doesn't get you, and you can avoid getting run over by a car because of your own carelessness (or even not), dying of natural causes has a whole bundle of biological random reasons for each of us to fear. Religion proposes that if you pray to a God, something totally abstract who has never given any indication it exists, you can thwart that fear. But it's carried farther than just quelling the fear -- it is a false hope that one is individually protected, or their sports team is protected, or their soldiers are protected. If they are killed in an earthquake, only the survivors can pray that nobody else has been killed . It's still akin to a game of roulette with a figure dressed in regalia resembling the Pope worth tens-of-thousands of dollars propped up in the middle of the wheel like an auto hood ornament. Concentrating on this highly fallible human being is an excercise in futility.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 08:16 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

The study and interpretation of evolution is something we do and if everything we do is a result of evolution then the study and the interpretation of evolution is just as much a result of evolution as Christianity is and is therefore not to be argued with. It is merely a snarling match with the winner to be decided by the outcome in a long series of subtle and gradual developments which can't be seen, like the wood in the trees, if you get up too close and think of yourself as having anything other than the most extreme insignificance asymptoting with zero insignificance.

Like I have said from the beginning--it is a power struggle. On the Ovarian trolley.

What else could it be if we are on our own?


Ovarian trolley. Give us and Miller a break.

The study of evolution is how it happens in the physical sense. What is made of it from there is up to others to determine.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 08:46 pm
@edgarblythe,
According that the premise, wars are a result of natural selection, so are rapes, General Motors, Scientology, and Twinkies. Onward Christian soldier.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 09:53 pm
In my view, evolution is the universe. What happens on Earth but one aspect. There is the tendency to anthropomorphize. The ones that do that err. This view of mine has nothing to do with the actual science that studies evolution, just as spendi's little excursions in the land of diversionary tactics has naught to do with it also.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 10:01 pm
@edgarblythe,
From my perspective, I like to say that "everything is natural."
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 07:46 am
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
Texas high-schoolers to learn about conservative groups from '80s, '90s under new standards
(By TERRENCE STUTZ / The Dallas Morning News / January 16, 2010)

AUSTIN " Texas high school students will have to learn about leading conservative groups from the 1980s and 1990s " but not about liberal or minority-rights groups " under U.S. history standards tentatively adopted by a politically divided State Board of Education on Friday.

The Republican majority on the board also gave a thumbs down to requiring history teachers and textbooks to provide coverage on the late Sen. Edward Kennedy and new Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor, as well as leading Hispanic civil-rights groups such as LULAC and the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund.

Led by the board's social-conservative bloc, Republicans left Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton and former U.S. Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall, the nation's first black justice, on the list of important figures that will have to be covered in history classes.

But they also added, on a 7-6 vote, Eagle Forum founder Phyllis Schlafly, the National Rifle Association, Moral Majority and the Heritage Foundation to the list of persons and groups that students will learn about.

Board member Don McLeroy, R-College Station, offered the amendment requiring coverage of "key organizations and individuals of the conservative resurgence of the 1980s and 1990s." McLeroy said he offered the proposal because the history standards were already "rife with leftist political periods and events " the populists, the progressives, the New Deal and the Great Society."

Those were among the long list of changes to proposed social studies standards for Texas schools that were considered over several hours Thursday and Friday.

Late Friday afternoon, after finding themselves unable to work through a long list of amendments, board members unanimously agreed to suspend debate on the standards until March, when they will take up other social studies subjects such as government and geography. In addition, several additional amendments to the U.S. history standards were left pending.

Curriculum standards adopted by the board will remain in place for the next decade, dictating what is taught in government, history and other social studies classes in all elementary and secondary schools. The standards also will be used to write textbooks and develop state tests for students.

Social conservatives lost some key battles Friday as other Republicans and Democrats joined to kill a few of their proposals. One of those turned back would have eliminated hip-hop music from history standards dealing with U.S. culture and replaced it with country music.

McLeroy and other social conservatives said hip-hop was inappropriate for history classes, and one member suggested it encourages anti-social behavior. Board member Mavis Knight, D-Dallas, however, retorted that hip-hop has "impacted our society whether we like it or not. So since it's there, we may as well talk about the positive aspects of it."

In the end, the proposal was killed on a 7-7 vote and hip-hop stayed in, along with rock 'n' roll, Tin Pan Alley, the Beat Generation and the Chicano Mural Movement as "significant examples" of cultural movements in the U.S.

McLeroy was successful with another of his noteworthy amendments: to include documents that supported Cold War-era Sen. Joseph McCarthy and his contention that the U.S. government was infiltrated with Communists in the 1950s.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 11:49 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
In my view, evolution is the universe. What happens on Earth but one aspect. There is the tendency to anthropomorphize. The ones that do that err. This view of mine has nothing to do with the actual science that studies evolution, just as spendi's little excursions in the land of diversionary tactics has naught to do with it also.


What is there to study Ed? It's dead simple. Sifting sand through a series of sieves tell you all you need to know. Scouring the rocks to prove it over and over again in nothing but a job creation scheme for those who suck up to the permission givers. Everybody knew that rats would develop immunity to Warfarin before it started being used. Same with pesticides and anti-biotics. It was predictable. You get super rats and super pests and super viruses.

It is the simplicity of evolution theory coupled with its capacity to have unusual long words attached to it that explains its popularity among those who seek to sound cleverer than they are. Virgil mentions the science of it in a couple of lines of The Aeneid.

It's the application of that science that is tricky. Aetheists need to explain how their applications are superior to Christian applications or, for those who live in hot and arid conditions, Islamic applications.

Blurting out that I'm using diversionary tactics is pointless except that it might suggest that aetheists would declare everything they don't agree with to be a diversionary tactic and think everybody is going to lie down in front of their mini-cab.

It also forgets that diversionary tactics, which mine wasn't, can be very useful.

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 12:02 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
McLeroy was successful with another of his noteworthy amendments: to include documents that supported Cold War-era Sen. Joseph McCarthy and his contention that the U.S. government was infiltrated with Communists in the 1950s.



I have in my hand, a list of 200 names made known to me by the HEAD HAMSTER . These names belong to memmbers of the Communist Party and who, nevertheless, are continually posting on A2K.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 02:07 pm
@spendius,
So many words; so little meaning.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 02:43 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
I have in my hand, a list of 200 names made known to me by the HEAD HAMSTER . These names belong to memmbers of the Communist Party and who, nevertheless, are continually posting on A2K.


And so they should. That's the only way to get their policies properly scrutised. We certainly don't want them skulking in underground burrows plotting and imagining we are just plastic counters in some board game they are playing.

They exist in every pub. They always know what should be done. And what it is that should be done always pushes them up the social scale if we let them do it. If we do let them do it because we are too lazy and can't compete with them at the activism game (entryism), have gone to the ball-game say, or redecorating the bathroom again, or we are too easily browbeaten by constant harping in grating tones, like a chain saw, with simplistic mantras which sound good, in the Christian sense I mean, if you don't think about them for more than a micro-second, "in 100 days" type of thing for example, they come to the fore in the same way that tusks and long pointed teeth did in the ordinary, slow-motion evolutionary process and when they arrive at the front they will, not might, treat us as if we are plastic counters in a game they are playing as they well might seeing as that's what we would be if they arrive at the front.

And they never gaze in meditative reveries inspired by evolutionary theory at the spectacle of a chubby female advanced monkey of about 40, or thereabouts, tripping decorously in her Sat Nite kit towards the LADIES powder-room in the pub and disappearing for varying lengths of time before tripping back again. They like telling everybody what should be done too much to be able to spare the time to ponder how that happened to a bloody animal. Plastic counters don't do that sort of thing so they are easier to think about. So what comes to the fore and on to the front are those who think things are easy to think about and have a repetitive, grating tone not unlike that of a squeaky door hinge at a motor vehicle registration office.

They are too busy and too important to wonder how this advanced female monkey got to be bending down pulling clothes out of the washer, stroking them, admiring their whiteness, hanging them out on the line in the warm breeze, watching re-runs of Bad Girls or Loose Women whilst they dry, with tea and biscuits, and massaging AVEITAGIN oil of Armenia skin-toner into the flesh beneath the chin.

What would Proust have done with the time it took the washing to dry. I'll tell you--save you cruddling--he would make you laugh. Assuming you have a sense of humour I mean. Thirty pages easy. And show you how to stand back and have a good look at ordinary things and, hopefully, without hurting anybody's feelings, by the simple trick of designing a prose form which it was easy to use as an excuse for not reading any further after the first hint of hurt feelings or the suspicion of them. Ignore function--sort of.

Which is by way, fm, of letting you know that sarcastic remarks about us conservatives being paranoid at the antics of the left, and thus silly, will get you nowhere because paranoia is irrational fear and our fear of the antics of the left is anything but irrational and particulary not if we are too lazy or easily brow-beaten and allow it to get to the front. I know your post was a polite form of brow-beating and I also know that it had nothing to offer on any policy front. If the brow-beating, even the polite sort, although it does insult A2Ker's intelligence, gets to the front just on the brow-beating it can make policy from there. As Tony Blair is said to have done. New Labour and all that. Mrs Thatcher in a velvet glove. She sacked all the conservatives. The "Wets" she called them. Then she galvanised the workforce not quite so far as the "No Work-No Eat" principle but near enough for it to be seen in the mist. A full-blown technocrat in the emotional sense of knowing what should be done and what should stop being done but not knowing how to arrange it thus requiring spin-doctors to make it look like it had been arranged.

Brow-beating us with McCarthy is a diluted version of what used to be called the Godwin's Law Stick. It must lose the argument when it offers nothing else but the stick. And offers just one man, Mr McLeroy, as if discrediting him discredits the conservative cause.

You don't touch a hair on my head fm with that bullshit.



farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 05:32 pm
@spendius,
Spendi, I wasnt remotely referring to you. I was paraphrasing E McCarthy's famous speech to his Senate Committee. I thought it would be as familiar to you as "nudge Nudge" THEREFORE, in that matter, I refer the reader to EDgars last post, it is quite appropriate for spendis latest submission as wwell.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 05:40 pm
@farmerman,
Obviously. I just explained why.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 05:44 pm
Wandel, for as interesting as it is to read of the "1984-esque" efforts of the good old boys in the Lone Star state to re-write history, i still feel inclined to ask what the hell that has to do with the teaching of evolution.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 06:45 pm
@Setanta,
Were the "good old boys" elected in a free and fair election. That's more than you can say for the NCSE which is as "1984-esque" as anything I've seen. I presume you don't think of Dover as a show trial.

Let's see some arguments which hold water about Christianity being a biologically driven evolutionary adaptation of phenomenal success not unlike the standing upright rather than going on all fours.

When all you have are cheap smears it's obvious you are desperate and unwilling to debate the matters.

0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 07:22 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Wandel, for as interesting as it is to read of the "1984-esque" efforts of the good old boys in the Lone Star state to re-write history, i still feel inclined to ask what the hell that has to do with the teaching of evolution.


Fair question.

This week's behavior of the Texas school board shows once again how they place politics above education. The curriculum decisions are based more on politics than on the advice given by expert educators. After the science education debacle, McLeroy was replaced as chairman --- yet he still holds a lot of influence.

Politics of the kind we saw this week in Texas is probably the biggest challenge to the teaching of evolution. The Texas board's handling of social studies curriculum illustrates how some school boards manage to make preposterous decisions.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 07:27 pm
And that is fair enough for a response, Wandel. I believe that few states exercise this level of control over the curricula of their schools, so i suppose that Texas could stand as an example of how to do everything wrong.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 07:47 pm
@Setanta,
california does some of the same things as Texas, like the "Statewide textbook purchasing" . Im not sure about how the Calif ed board operates though. I hope that the makeup of the ed board is safe from political winds.
Maybe Wiz knows about the makeup of the ed boards and dept of ed.

In Pa, the ed board makeup is the responsibility of a Cabinet head, who is appointed by the Governor.
The ed board only takes hearings and proposes requirements of proficiency and curriculum standards. HOW each school meets them is up to the local school. (Which, as we saw with Dover , can be a joke if some yahoos get elected locally (Local school boards are elected from each township and borough that is within the "School DSistrict").

By the mutually countervening structures of all levels of ed administration in PA, its amazing that the Dover case could have even happened at any other time except in the early part of the century when the entire Commonwealths ed requirements were being revamped en masse.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 07:52 pm
In Ohio, they provide guidelines and goals, and the state provides standardized tests--but doesn't dictate specific curriculum content. Unfortunately, this is not something i paid much attention to until i lived in Ohio, at the time when the creationists were making their drive to take the high ground in the culture wars over education. I can't really say what the state boards of education did in other states i lived in, and my only impressions come from having made a casual study of it since the culture wars began.
 

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