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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2008 10:04 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Texas students would be disadvantaged in the world's work force if exposed to pseudoscience concepts and if evolution is not reinforced as a major scientific concept, he said.

This is really the core issue. Students who leave school with even the impression that evolutionary theory is somehow "weak" or "unsound" will be displaying a core misunderstanding of basic biology. That's certain to be worrisome to potential employers and college acceptance boards.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2008 10:33 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
"Only one model " the theory of evolution " is widely accepted, and any other model should not be used in the science classroom," Eberle said. "Students are easily impressed and are not often able to comprehend the complexity of adult arguments."


Mr Scharrer's science is "overly broad and not deep enough." He obviously doesn't know any "adult" arguments.

The social system which has produced science, including evolution science, owes it's very existence to throwing evolution science out of the window. In fact, it is vehemently opposed, to the very roots of our Christian culture, to that particular bag of tricks. It is enthusiastic about all other types of science (more or less), the Pope has satellite TV to see what we are up to, because they aid its progress whereas evolution science undermines it unless a new type of human being is destined to inherit these lands off us.

Mr Scharrer, and those in the camp of the Houston Chronicle's editorial policy which will be that of the Hearst Corporation, a multinational corporate media conglomerate based in the ether, avoid, with some alacrity, any challenge in the "social consequences" field regarding the end product of their policy recommendations. They will not face up to the new type of human being they are bent on creating. And creating human beings is what the educational system is for.

It is not the "overly broad" roots, which Mr Scharrar's piece is a representative of, but the "deep" ones which are opposed to this theory and which he self-evidently knows nothing about.

It would be fair enough teaching monkeys or gerbils evolution science because they live it. The wild ones I mean. But they can't teach it. They can't even read or write donchaknow?

I spent five years battling with a provincial newspaper which purported to represent the local interests loyally but which was owned in the Big City far away through a series of other companies, presumably designed to hide something, and however mealy-mouthed they got I could see they were a vehicle for loading our money onto trains. On one famous occasion they attacked a recent interest rate rise vehemently and the Financial Times produced a table showing winners and losers and, lo and behold, my area was a leading beneficiary of high interest rates and all the suits in the conglomerate had big mortgages. And the same with the National Lottery which is a form of theft in its Sunday Best.

I lost of course. Now we are like Big City people more and more and, I must admit, there are advantages. But there are disadvantages as well.

Evolution theory is winning hands down. Why you keep defending it I don't know. It's as if you have no perception. Just as most of the key words Mr Schaffer uses he has no perception of the reality they abstractly stand for.

He's posturing.

What on earth are you doing having people who know no science organising science classes? If ever there was a route to ruin that seems to me one of the best candidates. You have "greed" organising it. The Business Ethic. It has nothing to do with science. I don't know what this thread is doing on here.



0 Replies
 
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2008 05:19 pm
Lisa, regarding teaching of Creationism:

Quote:
Today, we had a test, and all the answers were "God did it"!
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2008 06:11 pm
@aperson,
It saves a lot of heart searching ap. Whether you value that is your affair.
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2008 08:21 pm
@spendius,
Sorry, I don't understand. "Heart searching"?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 07:03 am
@aperson,
Quote:
Today, we had a test, and all the answers were "God did it"!

Good point.

So everybody gets an "A" on the test. But within two generations nobody can build a bridge or an airplane, and you can forget about medical school.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 08:35 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
So everybody gets an "A" on the test. But within two generations nobody can build a bridge or an airplane, and you can forget about medical school.


The wild, self-assuring assertion again in "bogeyman" mode. And history shows that it's a load of bollocks. Stress carrying architecture was developed and perfected for religious use. Why would religious people seek to close down medical schools? Only a Darwinian could logically argue for that. Survival of the fittest means death to the weak.

What a clunker ros is. He has me on Ignore in order to continue with his silly minority and incoherent opinions undistrurbed.


0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 09:38 am
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
Educators debate merits of changing how evolution is taught
(By EMILY GUEVARA, Beaumont Enterprise, November 20, 2008)

Proposed changes to the Texas public school science curriculum regarding evolution have ignited debate between educators in Southeast Texas and statewide.

The proposed revisions for biology call for students to "analyze and evaluate strengths and limitations of scientific explanations," causing some educators to worry that religion could be brought into the science classroom, or worse, that students may not be adequately prepared for college-level science courses.

"It's really a little perplexing to me," said David Bradley, the Beaumont area's state board representative. "We're on a regular schedule to update curriculum and all of a sudden there is a liberal faction that is determined to remove a position in the curriculum that has been there since 1988."

David Hillis, professor of biological sciences at the University of Texas at Austin and an expert reviewer of the first draft of science curriculum, said, "I think it's not in the best interests of Texas school children. I think that wording leaves it open for many different interpretations."

At issue is the way teachers will teach evolution to students.

The current high school biology curriculum, adopted in 1998, calls for students to use "critical thinking and scientific problem solving to make informed decisions."

It goes on to say, "The student is expected to analyze, review, and critique scientific explanations, including hypotheses and theories, as to their strengths and weaknesses using scientific evidence and information."

The revisions continue in this same vain, calling for students to "analyze and evaluate strengths and limitations of scientific explanations."

The State Board of Education met Wednesday to discuss the proposed curriculum revisions and several other items. The 15-member board is responsible for establishing policies and providing leadership for the Texas Public School system, according to the Texas Education Agency Web site.

The reality now is that most science students hear evolutionary theory as just that, a theory, said Patsy McGee, science supervisor for the Beaumont Independent School District.

Students come to the classroom and hear about the academic basis for the theory. It is their job to hash that out based on their religious views or other personal beliefs, she said. The school does not cross that line.

"There's not a wrong or right answer at that point except do you know what the theory says," McGee said by phone. "Students have to critique (the theory) and somehow make a decision, make it work, make it gel with what they already know."

Hillis of the University of Texas said he is concerned that the proposed wording will leave the door open for religion to enter the classroom. He said that historically certain members of the board used the wording to try to remove standard biology textbooks from the classroom on the grounds that they didn't meet that standard.

"That language has turned out to be an enormous distraction to the state of Texas," Hillis said.

But there is also another side. Student performance in biology could suffer if they are not properly educated in evolutionary theory, Hillis said.

Lamar University professor Jim Westgate agreed. Furthermore, he said that in addressing evolution from the scientific perspective, there are no weaknesses or negative points.

"The one uniting principal in the field of biology is that organisms have evolved to their present state over billions of years," he said. "So if you take that uniting concept away, the whole science of biology would fall apart."

McGee said she has no problem with the proposed curriculum changes. In fact, she feels they will more helpful to educators because they better spell out what concepts should be taught in the classroom. She said the teachers know there is a separation of church and state for a reason, and they are reminded to separate the two.

Emmery Dennis, mother to a 15-year-old Silsbee High School student, said that students should be encouraged to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of any theory and even evaluate the religious perspective alongside the scientific. That would foster more debate and allow students to make their own decisions, she said.

"You become more knowledgeable and think deeper if you see both sides of it than if you see just one side," said Dennis, 49, a registered nurse, who received her education in the Philippines.

The state board will vote on the revised science curriculum next March.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 12:30 pm
@wandeljw,
The Beaumont Enterprise is owned by the Hearst Corporation and as we already know what they think it is by way of a repetition compulsion to be reading further.
0 Replies
 
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 02:43 pm
@rosborne979,
Also, all our achaeologists will think that those many different shaped horse fossils all lived at the same time, along with Tyrannosaurus Rex. All living together in harmony.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 03:30 pm
@aperson,
But they won't you see ap. You just pretend that is the case to provide yourself with a sitting duck to aim at. And neither will bridge or airplane technology be hindered nor medical schools cease to improve.

aperson
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 03:46 pm
@spendius,
Look, I'm not going to argue with you. Your mind is so set in this blatantly false "scientific" theory that nothing anyone says will even reach that part of your brain known as reason, which unfortunately has been long buried by faith.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 04:35 pm
@aperson,
Another straw man. You go from one to another. What faith are you talking about that you assert has buried my reason.

And there is something I would listen to from your side and it is a proper scientific approach to the organising of social relations in the absence of Christianity. You can't just take it away and nothing happen. Something has to replace it.

And your side had no candidate in the election. And from a long way back.

Tell us what we'll get. I have an interest in that. I don't believe in a lot of things but I don't want them removed.

aperson
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 06:10 pm
@spendius,
You bring up a lot of irrelevent points. I'm going to reply to you because you amuse me.

Straw man? How ironic of you.

Ok, so now we're talking about Christianity and atheism? If you want to change the topic, be my guest. Just know that it hasn't gone unnoticed.

What makes you think Christianity is essential for social relations? A) There are other religions, in case you hadn't noticed, but I know that's not what you are trying to say. B) Religion unites by shared blindness. If you think that is the best way, or the only way, you are truly deluded indeed.

Oh my God, Christianity is more popular in America! That must mean it's true! You've got me there.

The only reason Christianity is more popular in America is that western society is traditionally Christian, just as other religions are prominent in other cultures. How are you so arrogant to think that America's religion is any better than any other belief system in the world? Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism didn't have sides in the American election, and from a long way back.

And by the way, I live in New Zealand, and both our PM candidates are atheists.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 06:26 pm
@aperson,
If you live in NZ ap nobody is all that bothered what you think. We wouldn't notice if your PM candidates were Satanists.

As long as your cricket team is Christian I mean, which I know it is.

I never said that Christianity was essential for social relations. Only our social relations.

And I never said that America's religion is better than any other belief system. I prefer it. That's all. I don't know what better means objectively. And it is a science thread.
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2008 02:42 am
@spendius,
Hmmm. It's quite sad really. Not only do you have to resort to changing the subject and avoiding points, but you are also arrogant enough to think that America is the centre of the world, and that smaller countries don't matter. It's also quite amusing, because are you are so blind that you can't even see how foolish you sound.

See ya later,
aperson
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2008 05:18 am
@aperson,
However foolish I may be I don't go around saying others are "sad".

And I don't see how I have changed the subject. Challenges to the teaching of evolution have the sole purpose of maintaining Christian thinking. If that science, if it is science, was neutral, like most science is, it would pass without challenge. It is not neutral socially. And comparing it to other science is a straw man for that reason. And it's obvious that is the case. If those on your side wish to place curtains around its legs, as they do, that's their affair. All that does is take them out of serious discussion. Putting me on Ignore is because I drew the curtains back a teeny bit. And I mean a teeny bit. If I threw them to one side and exposed evolution's legs to full view I expect you would all faint clean away. Biology can never be neutral just as psychology can't.

Quote:
You bring up a lot of irrelevent points. I'm going to reply to you because you amuse me.

Straw man? How ironic of you.

Ok, so now we're talking about Christianity and atheism? If you want to change the topic, be my guest. Just know that it hasn't gone unnoticed.

What makes you think Christianity is essential for social relations? A) There are other religions, in case you hadn't noticed, but I know that's not what you are trying to say. B) Religion unites by shared blindness. If you think that is the best way, or the only way, you are truly deluded indeed.

Oh my God, Christianity is more popular in America! That must mean it's true! You've got me there.

The only reason Christianity is more popular in America is that western society is traditionally Christian, just as other religions are prominent in other cultures. How are you so arrogant to think that America's religion is any better than any other belief system in the world? Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism didn't have sides in the American election, and from a long way back.

And by the way, I live in New Zealand, and both our PM candidates are atheists.


What irrelevant points? Why is it ironic that I accused you of building with straw? Your archeologist thing was a straw man without a doubt. So was claiming my faith had buried my reason. As is you saying that I think Christianity is essential for social relations. And your use of "blindness" qualifies too. Where does all seeing 20/20 vision get you? I could give you some of that which might shock you. And I never said, nor even intimated, that Christianity is true because it is popular in America. Nor for any other reason. It is true that it is the Western way of life for better or for worse. Straw is everywhere. ros's last post was pure straw.

It is not arrogance to think Christianity is better than other religions. It is a simple fact. It dominates the world. From a Darwinian perspective that equals better.

These threads of wande's have as their subject Christianity and atheism. Perhaps you are not as familiar with them as I am.

Also, I'm English.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2008 06:15 am
@squinney,
squinney wrote:

. As long as that is what their kids are learning, what's their concern about making everyone elses kids learn the same thing?


Religion is about indoctrination and control. Control is what it's all about. Any rational person can see that it's a bucketful of tripe, but churches wouldn't make any money if the retarded dribbling peasantry that adheres to that garbage were rational.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2008 07:41 am
If we turn this thread into a Christianity versus science argument, we are playing into the troll's hands and forgetting the purpose of the thread, which concerns the stumbling blocks the religious are seeking to create to thwart the teaching of evolution.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2008 07:53 am
@Wilso,
Quote:
Religion is about indoctrination and control.


I can't argue with that.

But-- what would happen if there was no indoctrination and control? Promiscuous barbarism is the only answer. Can you imagine 300 million lost souls running around in a Godforsaken North America who have not been indoctrinated and are subject to no controls. In all weathers.

(Perhaps you had better not).

As we are not having that then some other form of indoctrination and control is necessary.

What do you propose, Wilso, to replace religion assuming you are not offering promiscuous barbarism.

Let us all hope that isn't a cue for more spluttering.

Give us a bucketful of shite. Tripe's fairly respectable. In fact, compared to a bucketful of shite it might be said in drawing rooms to be really quite nice.

And anybody who expects people to be rational and who is shocked at irrationality is a slow learner. Certainly not a scientist. To suggest that irrationality is a weakness or something to be ashamed of is the authentic voice of the monkeys who warned against standing erect. It has been suggested that the blue-bottomed monkey was the first to ignore such warnings from the conservative element. For reasons it might be remiss of me to explain although I will say there are occasions when I have considered in the light of how it has all turned out that it was a big mistake getting up on our hinder quarters and that the conservatives were right and it was better swinging through the treetops. Such occasions are very rare now that I have got on board with humans being irrational and am no longer surprised at anything they do. Generally speaking, when there is no real involuntary suffering involved, the more irrational people are the better I like it.
0 Replies
 
 

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