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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 12:54 pm
@Lightwizard,
I agree! People cannot grow food without rain or fresh water. Nature can be brutal - including all the "natural" disasters.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 12:58 pm
@farmerman,
More like Joyce Meyer.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 12:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Those "acts of God" the insurance companies like to use as a loophole (funny how religious they become when there is money to pay out).
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
There's always starvation, but the human population continues its upward growth. You are dense!


Human starvation is a political category. We can easily feed the lot. It isn't a biological category for us.

Darwin mentions a few times how wasteful evolution is of life. Many more are born than reach breeding age. Often very many more. But Darwin is not on your radar.

There's no alarming human population growth simply because it alarms you.

It would be alarming if sex was solely for reproduction as you said. It is rarely for reproduction. 2.1 or something in the average western woman's life. China aims at 1.o. Russia's population is declining. France is trying to get a 20 million increase. Augustus couldn't get Romans to breed despite legislation to try to force them to.

All you have ci. is ridiculous readings of my posts, stupid inanities and clinching arguments such as "You are dense." Being on the same side as you must be embarrassing.

Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:30 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Human starvation is a political category. We can easily feed the lot. It isn't a biological category for us.


That is true. While most cases of modern famine begun with a natural disaster, drought and the like, politics has caused most starvation deaths.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:41 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
I think that he thinks hes James Joyce


He was a lunatic. A very funny one I'll admit. I would never have written this--

Quote:
“I am tomorrow, or some future day, what I establish today. I am today what I established yesterday or some previous day.”


You just make **** up as you go along. All of you, except maybe wande. You're always looking for the thing to say before you slam the door.

When stuck it's "I think that he thinks he's James Joyce", slams door and marches off hurrumphing and clumping in self satisfaction seemingly believing that the other debaters are impressed with anything else other than the insult to the standards of the debate they are in.

I'm nothing like JJ. That Nora would never have got fed up with me energising her psychosomatic realm.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:44 pm
@spendius,
You and he both have no respect for connective phrases or continuity.(Not to mention made-up language)
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This is the condensed version of an interesting article that addresses this very issue in the most recent edition of the Economist (I couldn't find the entire article online):
Quote:
Demography, growth and the environment
Falling fertility

Oct 29th 2009
From The Economist print edition
Astonishing falls in the fertility rate are bringing with them big benefits

THOMAS MALTHUS first published his “Essay on the Principle of Population”, in which he forecast that population growth would outstrip the world’s food supply, in 1798. His timing was unfortunate, for something started happening around then which made nonsense of his ideas. As industrialisation swept through what is now the developed world, fertility fell sharply, first in France, then in Britain, then throughout Europe and America. When people got richer, families got smaller; and as families got smaller, people got richer.

Now, something similar is happening in developing countries. Fertility is falling and families are shrinking in places" such as Brazil, Indonesia, and even parts of India"that people think of as teeming with children. As our briefing shows, the fertility rate of half the world is now 2.1 or less"the magic number that is consistent with a stable population and is usually called “the replacement rate of fertility”. Sometime between 2020 and 2050 the world’s fertility rate will fall below the global replacement rate.

At a time when Malthusian worries are resurgent and people fear the consequences for an overcrowded planet, the decline in fertility is surprising and somewhat reassuring. It means that worries about a population explosion are themselves being exploded"and it carries a lesson about how to solve the problems of climate change.
Worth a bundle

Today’s fall in fertility is both very large and very fast. Poor countries are racing through the same demographic transition as rich ones, starting at an earlier stage of development and moving more quickly. The transition from a rate of five to that of two, which took 130 years to happen in Britain"from 1800 to 1930"took just 20 years"from 1965 to 1985"in South Korea. Mothers in developing countries today can expect to have three children. Their mothers had six. In some countries the speed of decline in the fertility rate has been astonishing. In Iran, it dropped from seven in 1984 to 1.9 in 2006"and to just 1.5 in Tehran. That is about as fast as social change can happen.

Falling fertility in poor and middle-income societies is a boon in and of itself. It means that, for the first time, the majority of mothers are having the number of children they want, which seems to be"as best one can judge"two. (China is an exception: its fall in fertility has been coerced.)

It is also a boon in what it represents, which is greater security for billions of vulnerable people. Subsistence farmers, who live off their harvest and risk falling victim to rapine or drought, can depend only on themselves and their children. For them, a family of eight may be the only insurance against disaster. But for the new middle classes of China, India or Brazil, with factory jobs, cars and bank accounts, the problems of extreme insecurity lie in the past. For them, a child may be a joy, a liability or an accident"but not an insurance policy.

And falling fertility is a boon for what it makes possible, which is economic growth. Demography used to be thought of as neutral for growth. But that was because, until the 1990s, there were few developing countries with records of declining fertility and rising incomes. Now there are dozens and they show that as countries move from large families and poverty into wealth and ageing they pass through a Goldilocks period: a generation or two in which fertility is neither too high nor too low and in which there are few dependent children, few dependent grandparents"and a bulge of adults in the middle who, if conditions are right, make the factories hum. For countries in demographic transition, the fall to replacement fertility is a unique and precious opportunity.
Another inconvenient truth

Nonsense, say Malthus’s heirs. All this misses the point: there are too many people for the Earth’s fragile ecosystems. It is time to stop"and ideally reverse"the population increase. To celebrate falling fertility is like congratulating the captain of the Titanic on heading towards the iceberg more slowly.

The Malthusians are right that the world’s population is still increasing and can do a lot more environmental damage before it peaks at just over 9 billion in 2050. That will certainly be the case if poor, fast-growing countries follow the economic trajectories of those in the rich world. The poorest Africans and Asians produce 0.1 tonnes of CO2 each a year, compared with 20 tonnes for each American. Growth is helping hundreds of millions to escape grinding poverty. But if the poor copy the pattern of wealth creation that made Europe and America rich, they will eat up as many resources as the Americans do, with grim consequences for the planet. What’s more, the parts of the world where populations are growing fastest are also those most vulnerable to climate change, and a rising population will exacerbate the consequences of global warming"water shortages, mass migration, declining food yields.
In principle, there are three ways of limiting human environmental impacts: through population policy, technology and governance. The first of those does not offer much scope. Population growth is already slowing almost as fast as it naturally could. Easier access to family planning, especially in Africa, could probably lower its expected peak from around 9 billion to perhaps 8.5 billion. Only Chinese-style coercion would bring it down much below that; and forcing poor people to have fewer children than they want because the rich consume too many of the world’s resources would be immoral.

If population policy can do little more to alleviate environmental damage, then the human race will have to rely on technology and governance to shift the world’s economy towards cleaner growth. Mankind needs to develop more and cheaper technologies that can enable people to enjoy the fruits of economic growth without destroying the planet’s natural capital. That’s not going to happen unless governments both use carbon pricing and other policies to encourage investment in those technologies and constrain the damage that economic development does to biodiversity.

Falling fertility may be making poor people’s lives better, but it cannot save the Earth. That lies in our own hands.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:02 pm
@Lightwizard,
Quote:
I tried to Google "psychosomatic realm" and came up with not such combination with any accompanying explanation.


And I had specifically warned you thus--

Quote:
The psychosomatic realm is the theatre which this medical discipline studies and is not to be confused with it.


Nature's realm is what science studies. And science is not nature. The psychosomatic realm exists, except for real materialists which none of you lot are, irrespective of whether it is studied. It's just there. You can flash a fat wad of $100 bills in front of a female monkey and get no reaction. Human females go weak at the knees. Same with serenading using that word in its widest possible interpretations.

Why did you look it up. I would expect that someone with a lot to say about religion would be familiar with the word. You can't have the slightest idea what you are talking about otherwise.

And anyway--I gave you a good indication from Google. The realm exists and psychosomatic medicine and advertising study it for obvious reasons. But they are not the "realm".

I have not proposed introducing the matter into classrooms. It is an expert field. Alpha Plus stuff. Out of your ken Wiz.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:09 pm
@spendius,
spendi, You arrive at conclusions that are ridiculous on the face of it; many women are wealthier than many men. Those women waving $100 bills in front of many men will get the "same reaction" you claim for women.

Your analogy fails for lack of common sense and logic.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'll agree I was a little hasty and had failed to cover all the possibilities. I could suggest psychosomatic methods with wealthy ladies but I had better not I feel.

I was considering the run-of-the-mill lady of the general category I am familiar with.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:16 pm
@spendius,
spendi, Your pub environment is not the best place to learn about world reality.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The pub is meant as an escape from reality -- into the psycho-dramatic realm of a baseline of intelligence doped up with alcohol.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:55 pm
@Lightwizard,
I doubt we'll ever convince spendi of this simple fact. The local pub is 50% of his home life.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:59 pm
@Lightwizard,
You're obsessed with my two pints a night drinking Wiz. Are you not allowed out unsupervised or something? Maybe you're a reformed drinker.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 04:30 pm
@spendius,
Right--I'm off to the pub now. 20.30 hours GMT. Last orders ate at 23,00.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 04:34 pm
@spendius,
hes having pilchards on buttered brown bread. Whereas I will have a thin crust pizza with anchovies.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 05:25 pm
@farmerman,
Laced with LSD it appears.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 05:32 pm
@Lightwizard,
I wouldn't take LSD if you paid me.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 05:39 pm
@spendius,
How would we know?
0 Replies
 
 

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