@Thomas,
Quote:Assuming that this is what Scalia was arguing, the point that the law hadn't been implemented yet was perfectly valid for him to be making.
But the whole anti-ID position is based on guessing what will happen in the classroom and in the scientific world. A straw man in other words. Artificial. A scaremongering exercise designed to draw attention to themselves and produce fees for lawyers to no purpose.
@wandeljw,
Quote:“I don’t have to choose.”
Oh but she does. She's only on the periphery now.
Quote:“We need parents and the community to understand why and how we teach evolution.”
Okay wande, why? And why need? Who is the "we"?
@wandeljw,
Quote:San Angelo Standard-Times is a daily newspaper based in San Angelo, Texas, USA since 1884. It is owned by the newspaper group, The E.W. Scripps Company.
The newspaper, owned in the 1920s by Houston H. Harte, in 1924 became one of the two original flagships of the Harte-Hanks newspaper chain.[1] Scripps began operating the newspaper in 1997 after purchasing it from Harte-Hanks.
The E.W. Scripps Company owns 16 newspapers, 10 TV stations and 7 radio stations. No doubt its income derives from advertising and it thus has an interest in nurturing good consumers and it is therefore understandable that it will seek to denigrate religion. Its interest in Texas children can be assumed to be zero.
It is based in Ohio and has $1.1 billion of revenue.
@wandeljw,
Quote:The U.S. public now gets its evolution "education" predominantly from anti-evolution sound/print bites or by word of mouth. Take for example the mantras about the supposed problems that thermodynamics presents to evolution and the claimed absence of fossils with transitional features indicating shared ancestry. Physicists and paleontologists laid those claims to rest long ago, but it's like whistling in the wind before people who make no sincere effort to understand it.
Evolution needs sound-bites. I'll start...
"Teach the Science"
@rosborne979,
OK.
In the higher animals copulation is based upon the female being on heat for a short period of time which is signalled by certain striking changes in her appearence and deportment which are not generated by a beauty product industry. It is known as the rutting season. She is more or less permanently pregnant.
The male is a mere adjunct.
What other science includes the "supernatural" in its core teaching?
I cant think of one.
@wandeljw,
That stuff is scary. Like we hit a time warp.
@edgarblythe,
Edgar,
Since you are a Texas resident, you could probably post comments on the Texas Education Agency website. Let us know if you do.
@wandeljw,
Perhaps you are right I will look into it this afternoon.
@wandeljw,
Quote:The board’s creationist chairman ... says science should be redefined to include supernatural explanations.
Yeh, then let's have a book burning and some witch trials, yiihaaa.
Let's redefine economics to include the supernatural too, then "Voodoo Economics" will be a badge of honor instead of an insult.
@rosborne979,
Those are odd conclusions to come to from that quote.
The US Postal Service has burned quite a few books in the last 100 years. Or so it has been claimed.
And Voodoo Economics is standard practice these days. Take the industry that designs containers and labels for supermarket shelves as a small but obvious example. What natural purpose does that serve?
Bailout is a great label.
@spendius,
No frills. That's how John Smith's Extra Smooth is advertised. That's why I drink it.
Anybody ever see a monkey looking through the choice of bananas to see which one has the most cachet?
When the supernatural is in your own head, and without you even knowing, it causes a different order of problem from when It's up in the sky.
@spendius,
It's a great pity that these scientific truth fanatics are scared of discussing lingerie shops. It isn't as if they are unimportant now is it lads?
OHIO SCIENCE TEACHER UPDATE
Quote:Former Freshwater students testify
(By Pamela Schehl, Mount Vernon News, November 1, 2008)
MOUNT VERNON " Dinosaurs, dragons and Darwin were discussed Friday during the contract termination hearing of suspended Mount Vernon Middle School science teacher John Freshwater.
David Millstone, attorney for the Mount Vernon school board, introduced several handouts allegedly distributed by Freshwater in class. Former Freshwater students Simon Souhrada and Kate Button testified the dinosaur handout implied that humans and dinosaurs probably coexisted, contradicting the generally accepted theory of evolution. Button said Freshwater told her class there was new evidence that dinosaurs probably were around when people were, because of the global incidence of legends of dragons.
Both students also alleged Freshwater indirectly made it clear to students that he disagreed with Darwin’s theory of evolution, and exposed creationism or intelligent design as an equally valid theory.
Souhrada said Freshwater was a very good teacher with just a few exceptions, and those exceptions concerned the evolution chapter. He said Freshwater seemed to be trying to discredit evolution and that it seemed like he didn’t really want to teach it, although it was in the textbook.
Souhrada said what is called the Tesla coil was used when he was in Freshwater’s class. He said the tool was used to show the properties of different gases, and that Freshwater also used it to “draw” on students who volunteered. Souhrada said he was one of those volunteers, and Freshwater drew the shape of a cross on his arm.
Kelly Hamilton, Freshwater’s lawyer, asked why Souhrada didn’t tell his parents about the mark.
“It never registered as being anything, really,” Souhrada said. “I was in eighth grade and thought it was a cool, shocky thing on my arm.”
Button said Freshwater was a well-liked teacher, but that his teaching style was “scattered.” She testified she disagreed with his views on things like evolution and dinosaurs, and that he presented some material she could “connect” to science. One example given was Freshwater reading “Chicken Soup for the Teenage Soul” to the class. Another was a discussion about Noah’s flood.
Middle school special education teachers Katie Beach and Kerri Mahan have spent time in Freshwater’s class, and testified as to his teaching style, topics discussed in class and religious items in the room. Both said to their knowledge Freshwater did not pick up and read his Bible during class. They also said some of the “nonscientific” discussions could have been initiated by the students.
Mount Vernon High School Science Department chairman Richard Cunningham was also called to the stand by Millstone. He talked about some of the same handouts referred to by the students, and said he and the science committee felt the material was written with a clear bias and did not pass the test of scientific peer review. Cunningham gave a detailed explanation of scientific methods and science standards and benchmarks in the school curriculum.
Hamilton asked whether Cunningham had spent any time in Freshwater’s class. Cunningham said he had, and said he believed Freshwater was a very influential teacher, which could be a good thing or a bad thing.
“If he misleads students about an issue, that would be bad,” he told Hamilton.
He also said he had no evidence that Freshwater misleads students.
Cunningham mentioned Biblical references on the wall, which he said seemed unusual for a science classroom or in a public school classroom. He said he did not report those concerns to the administration.
“Do you have any empirical evidence that John Freshwater taught creationism or intelligent design?” Hamilton asked.
“No,” replied Cunningham.
“Can a teacher possibly teach standards from another grade level?”
“Yes, it could happen.”
“Is it permissible?”
“I’m not sure.”
“Do you know where it is specifically prohibited?”
“No.”
Souhrada’s father, Paul, also testified at the hearing. Following completion of testimony on Friday, the hearing was adjourned until Jan. 6, 2009.
@wandeljw,
Why don't you paste up some extracts from a wallpaper catalogue wande?
teaching, like driving, is a privilege bearing responsibilities . IT IS NOT a right. The teachers, when they decide to pursue that as a career, must understand that they are licensed under the regs of a particular state and , should they wish to contravene these license requirements, they should first resign and , perhaps, go into the ministry where they may find it more to their liking.