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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Oct, 2009 08:53 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
I saw that the PA GOP caucus in the state house was reaffirming the 2001 state ed policy which is definately non sectarian and pro science.


Good grief!! That should be interesting.

Still--if you are defining "non-sectarian" and "science" yourself and for your own uses I don't suppose much will change bearing in mind that everybody else will be doing the same.

It might not even matter if the scientific investigations of Mr Fox are anything to go by as reported in his The Influence of Subjective Preference on Memory.

Quote:
.......(Memory) as evinced by both immediate and delayed recall, is much more efficient in those cases where there is a distinct subjective preference for what is learned.


and

Quote:
Nothing can well be more "subjectively subjective" than subjective preference, and this has been shown to produce objective mental effects in the greater efficiency of memory; so that we seem to be justified in refusing to abandon the idea of causal efficiency in the realm of the mind.


So what you need do is focus more on preferences before they are preferred rather than on science classes for late adolescents when the preferences are already established. Which might rattle your nerves instead of this easy ride you are indulging in on schools when there exists a range of other educational inputs which are outside schools and preceding them.

And we have to wonder what it was that determined your subjective preference and your need to be subjectively subjective in the service of promoting that very subjective preference so that ultimately it will prevail in all those corners of the land where the control of children's minds becomes your responsibility. I assume you accept the need to control children's minds if only because of what horrible little monsters they all are unless controlled.

Did the religious instruction teacher cane you once. Or did you enjoy confounding him with stuff you had read in Science Made Simple?

This memory efficiency thingy is posited on the Pleasure/Pain continuum and on separating physical sensation from ego pleasure. The ego gets pleasure by being stroked and pain by not being but the ladies can explain that better than I ever could.

So I'm interested, like you are in my drinking habits, in whether the root of your subjective preference is a pleasureable or painful expereience.

I would guess that confounding your religion teachers gave you pleasure. Mr Arnold explains the joys of it somewhere. And it must be an ego pleasure. To stand before the class and tie your teacher into red-faced, flustered knots is enjoyable I must admit. I came to it late in life. At school I sat on the back row hoping not to be noticed. I had adults pegged from a long way off.

The morphology of the subjective preference is easy to follow. It feeds on itself. Science Made Simple Parts 2,3,4,5 and 6. Onwards to gate-crashing a revivalist social gathering, where new worlds are created, and giving them a piece of your mind. Confounding people in greater numbers. With non-sectarianism, like at football matches, and pro science as in Advanced Science Made Simple.
0 Replies
 
Mexica
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Oct, 2009 07:23 am
@Finn dAbuzz,


There are many "Creationists" who have proven themselves to be unreasonable (i.e. argue beyond the point of reason), would you still say they shouldn't be treated as ignorant rubes?

Kent Hovind

Quote:
Kent E. Hovind (born January 15, 1953) is an American Young Earth creationist and conspiracy theorist famous for his creation science seminars that aim to convince listeners to reject modern theories of evolution, geophysics, and cosmology in favor of biblical creation.


Quote:
In 2001 Hovind started Dinosaur Adventure Land (DAL), a young earth creationist theme park located behind Hovind's home in Pensacola, Florida. The park depicts humans and dinosaurs co-existing in the last 4,000"6,000 years and also contains a depiction of the Loch Ness monster.[23] Dinosaurs are a center piece in Hovind's website and creation advocacy because "the creation world view says dinosaurs have always lived with man and there might still be a few alive today."[24]


"Just what is this natural selection? Oh you see, Adolph Hitler
thought he'd speed up the process by eliminating the inferiors."

-Kent Hovind

*snip

"...and natural selction is God's quality control, that's all."
-Kent Hovind


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTIrRpUeOEs&feature=player_embedded
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Oct, 2009 11:28 am
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Oct, 2009 11:36 am
I've watched most of the three hours (two specials, "Discovering Ardi" and "Understanding Ardi"). The animation sequence is fascinating, especially as Ardi dwelled not in the desert environment where she was found but in an arboreal jungle.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Oct, 2009 11:57 am
@Lightwizard,
The area was "desertified" since the last 50K years. There are [plenty of places in the Namib and Sahara where there are fossil lake deposits and lush forests .
How did you get to see he Ardi show? Were only getting that sometime end of Oct?
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Oct, 2009 12:34 pm
@farmerman,
I don't think it only premiered on Discovery HD -- I also posted a link to Discovery's page on the special which also links to schedules in your area.
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/ardipithecus/ardipithecus.html
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Oct, 2009 01:26 pm
@Lightwizard,
It's entertainment lads. They know how to stroke your egos, butter 'em and ladle warm syrup on to them. You can tell by the reverence in their voice. It's to get you receptive to the messages of the sponsors who know you back to front and inside out. All the easier with those who think they are not being influenced by them.

I could easy do Mrs Fetherstone-Augh in her Sunday best doing an 8 dart out.
6 treble 20s, doublr 15 and double 17. Using an editing suite and given enough time.

Watch the cuts. The cuts are the thing to watch for in entertainment movies. Andy Warhol tried a movie with no cuts and everybody said it wasn't entertaining.

The Prof. (Your guru) was on again last night. He did an interminable driving/ walking shot to a philosophy professor's house which had, you won't believe this, Roman style columns on the front porch, and we were ushered into his plush study to be told that there was no logical reason to need consolations in this life. He was as fat as a well fed pig too.

Dawkins looked a bit pique I thought. Florid. A warning about threewifeitis. He had a short discussion with the Archbishop of Canterbury. At least the Bish looked like he knew he had looped the loop.

You should see some of the other channels on the same networks. Phwoaaar!.
History in the making.

Have you no idea how infantile this is-

Quote:
The scientific investigation began in the Ethiopian desert 17 years ago, and now opens a new chapter on human evolution, revealing the first evolutionary steps our ancestors took after we diverged from a common ancestor we once shared with living chimpanzees. "Ardi's" centerpiece skeleton, the other hominids she lived with, and the rocks, soils, plants and animals that made up her world were analyzed in laboratories around the world, and the scientists have now published their findings in the prestigious journal Science.


Do the words "scientific investigation" turn your brains to jelly. That's pure foam from the mouth.

Aren't the first chapters on human evolution bad enough? Perhaps you have read them from the wrong end of the telescope. You're actually the image.

Do you think our anscestors staggered around and kept falling on their arse when they took the first steps. Do you think they hopped like birds for a million years or so? I've sometimes wondered if penguins were the missing link. Why would an occasional human be born with webbed feet? I've read that there are a few.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Oct, 2009 01:43 pm
@farmerman,
Now we know we have a village idiot on this thread, disguised as a Pope and a troll. Talk about split personalities.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Oct, 2009 01:49 pm
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/creationists-science-bible-disprove-ardi-fossil-evidence-evolution/story?id=8766121

Their "authority" is an anatomist, so he scientifically practices anatomism. Or cartoons.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Oct, 2009 02:52 pm
@Lightwizard,
SAPendi is a lonely bitter man because others wont rise to his lure. Whenever he does make sense I think we pay himd due concern and answer him politely and as best as we can. When he acts like a pewtulant 13 year old like above, he doesnt impress anyone with his "much speaking".

A Darwin SCholar he aint, as also with many other areas of his yadda yadda fests
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Oct, 2009 02:56 pm
@Lightwizard,
Quote:
many of them with advanced degrees in science, are unimpressed by Ardi, who they believe is just another ape -- an ape of indeterminate age, they add, and an ape who cannot be an ancestor of modern man for a range of reasons, including one of singular importance: God created man in one day, and evolution is a fallacy.
SCience collects and evaluates evidence, from which are drawn conclusions. Creationists wtart with a conclusion and work backward. I like the point that they say the fossil is of indeterminate age because if they would agree with the 4 million year old date, they would have to take back all the prononucements of archbishup Ussher .
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Oct, 2009 03:08 pm
@farmerman,
Creationist don't just start with a conclusion and work backwards, they do it by taking the same step backwards. That's it -- nothing testable even presented. Their evidence is an ancient collection of mythical stories passed down by oral story telling coming from before recorded history. That sort of babbling obviously hasn't stopped and we have the proof right here on A2K.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Oct, 2009 03:14 pm
Thank for the enlightening posts lads. I'm sure viewers of a scientific cast of mind will be highly impressed.

You might just snort. It would be more congruent with the conservation of energy laws I think. Possibly the complexities of your thought processes caused you to overlook the points I had made.

0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 04:48 am
Saw this quote. Thought of spendi.

There are some that only employ words for the purpose of disguising their thoughts.
- Voltaire
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 05:00 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
How did you get to see he Ardi show? Were only getting that sometime end of Oct?


I don't know why your schedule is different, but "Ardi" aired on the Discovery Channel Saturday night. Great show, well worth watching. It was done well, which is not often the case on television these days. I know you'll thoroughly enjoy it.

I put a link to the Discovery Channel's web site in Oralloy's ardipithecus thread which will let you look at some clips of the show. You might check that out, FM.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 06:59 am
The BBC i-player has a recording of last night's showing of a programme about Robert Noyce who those interested in science will admire on another level than the chaps, and their pneumatic secretaries, digging up old bones in Ethiopia on fat grants in order to prove something of no real interest to anyone except people who think they can parade themselves as scientific by rabbiting about them in hushed tones.

Mr Noyce came from a fundamentalist background and got his start in physics at one of those colleges anti-IDers like to disparage.

And he smoked. He also ended his career in Texas which is a state anti-IDers also like to disparage.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 07:04 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Saw this quote. Thought of spendi.

There are some that only employ words for the purpose of disguising their thoughts.
- Voltaire


Obviously. "If my thought dreams could be seen....."

And I haven't always disguised them. Maybe you don't read very well Ed or haven't kept pace with my contributions to A2K.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 07:15 am
@edgarblythe,
I see quotes too Ed.

Quote:
I cannot help remembering a remark of De Casseres. It was over the wine in Mouquin's. Said he: "The profoundest instinct in man is to war against the truth; that is, against the Real. He shuns facts from his infancy. His life is a perpetual evasion. Miracle, chimera and to-morrow keep him alive. He lives on fiction and myth. It is the Lie that makes him free. Animals alone are given the privilege of lifting the veil of Isis; men dare not. The animal, awake, has no fictional escape from the Real because he has no imagination. Man, awake, is compelled to seek a perpetual escape into Hope, Belief, Fable, Art, God, Socialism, Immortality, Alcohol, Love. From Medusa-Truth he makes an appeal to Maya-Lie."


"Jack London, The Mutiny of the Elsinore

Quote:
You have many contacts
Out there among the lumberjacks
To get you facts
When somebody attacks your imagination,




0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 08:28 am
@spendius,
Quote:
He also ended his career in Texas which is a state anti-IDers also like to disparage.
Only te public sector of state govt and ed. There are several world class Universities like Texas at Austin and Rice. No disparagement there
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2009 08:57 am
@farmerman,
Spot on! Our son earned his masters at UOT, and now works for the university. College rating organizations put UOT pretty high in the rankings, and Austin's campus has over 50000 students - which makes it one of the largest in the US.
 

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