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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2009 10:34 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Now there's the problem, Spendius. You haven't learned a thing in a century and a half.


Here we go again. What's my problem? Any plonker can say "there's your problem" as if I have one and readers of such weakkneed tripe are going to think I have on that basis. You having asserted it.

It's you who have the problem. You're all compromised with your Darwin. Intellectually I mean. See Jack--I've justified my assertion. You haven't.

We all have to compromise practically I know. I do it all the time. But you've internalised the compromises and think that arranging a dinner table in a certain ridiculous manner is "bweuuuwtifuuul. I don't mind the utensils being in a heap in the middle of the table. Or the icing on the cake being a bit rough and no decorations. I knew a chap once who brook his false teeth on a decoration. Transport cafes are my idea of eating out and even then only when necessary. And you don't get **** on by the computer in the invoicing system and to which it is exceedingly difficult to complain.

I'm with the guy who told Darwin he laughed all the way through Origins. One of Harriet Martineau's male friends. The "infusoria" joke was my pick.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2009 10:45 am
@spendius,
Quote:
I'm with the guy who told Darwin he laughed all the way through Origins.


That , for one, was Reverend Bishop Wilberforce, who later went on to smash 'is skull when thrown by a horse who failed to admire Wilberforce's girth.

When told of the accident, Huxley said that (paraphrasing)
"That was the first time that the Reverends brain and truth occupied the same space"
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2009 11:02 am
@farmerman,
I don't think it was Soapy Sam.

Perhaps you are not aware what he found funny effemm.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2009 11:17 am
@Lightwizard,
Give over LW. That's like saying that Egypt is a country in North Africa and mainly hot sand.

Anybody who gets a headache from such a simple caricature obviously knows nothing about the matters.

Anyway- can you identify the Council which changed your beliefs to damp liberal from what they might have been as an Aztec priestess or a North Korean boy scout. It must have been something. If you wish to put it down to the clear, critical clarity of your thinking all well and good. Don't expect everybody to though.

We had that out when effemm couldn't explain incomplete mind control and no mind control.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2009 11:21 am
@spendius,
I recall that, among others, Wilberforce had opened one of his Harangues with that statement. Wilberforce was, after all, a simple man of modest intellect.
Lightwizard
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2009 12:07 pm
@farmerman,
As opposed to the simple Pope with no intellect who consistently trolls these threads?
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2009 01:08 pm
@Lightwizard,
Save yourself the bother LW. I'll assume your response from now on. It's grooved.

What makes me laugh is that if your assertion that I'm a troll is correct then why do you keep expressing surprise or outrage at me behaving like one. Expecting a troll to stop trolling is like expecting an anteater to stop eating ants. A bit like King Lear.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2009 01:32 pm
@Lightwizard,
You have no idea what an Internet troll is -- you again need a simple dictionary, simpleton.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2009 02:17 pm
@Lightwizard,
It must be what I am according to you. Why would I need a dictionary to look what I am up.

You're a big-girl's blouse. Look that up.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 07:58 am
Americans United for Separation of Church and State is offering a special guide free online titled: Religion in the Public Schools: A Road Map for Avoiding Lawsuits and Respecting Parents’ Legal Rights:
Quote:
This handy 129-page book, written by Associate Professor of Law Anne Marie Lofaso of West Virginia University, examines what the courts have said about many religion-in-school controversies and provides clear, concise answers to common questions. Fully referenced and footnoted, Religion in the Public Schools is the perfect guide for anyone seeking to better navigate the intersection between religion and public education.


A PDF version can be downloaded at this website: http://religioninthepublicschools.com/
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 Oct, 2009 09:03 am
LOUISIANA UPDATE
Quote:
Creationists Continue to Dictate BESE Science Education Policy
(Louisiana Coalition For Science, Press Release, September 28, 2009)

On September 16, the Board of Elementary and Secondary Education (BESE) ignored the recommendations of science education professionals in the Louisiana Department of Education (DOE) and allowed the Louisiana Family Forum (LFF), a Religious Right lobbying group, to dictate the procedure concerning complaints about creationist supplementary materials used in public school science classes under the 2008 Louisiana Science Education Act (LSEA). At BESE’s September 16 Student/School Performance and Support (SSPS) Committee meeting, DOE presented recommendations for reviewing such materials. However, DOE’s recommendations were amended to include changes proposed by SSPS Committee chair Dale Bayard, the LFF’s point man at BESE. BESE committee members approved the changes without opposition after hearing testimony by creationists who attended the meeting. As a result, the prerogatives of the DOE professional science education staff have been severely undermined, as explained below.

LFF director Rev. Gene Mills, whose own children do not attend public schools, attended the meeting but did not speak. Among the creationists testifying was University of Louisiana-Lafayette professor John W. Oller, Jr., who is a member of the “Technical Advisory Board” of the young-earth creationist Institute for Creation Research in Dallas, Texas.

*********************************************

In its recommendation to the SSPS Committee, DOE proposed that, when a complaint about supplementary materials is filed, “the DOE will select three reviewers” who “should be experts” capable of determining whether the contested materials meet the necessary criteria for use in public school science classes. A meeting would be held in which both the complainant and the LEA (Local Education Agency, i.e., the school district) and their chosen representatives would present their positions and answer reviewers’ questions. Then, according to the DOE’s proposal, “the DOE will consider the report of the reviewers and make recommendations to BESE.” Further, the proposal specified that “the DOE may elect to support, reject or modify the recommendations of the reviewers or may substitute its own recommendation” to BESE. In short, DOE professionals, exercising their professional judgment, would do their jobs properly and preserve the integrity of Louisiana’s science curriculum.

However, on September 16 the LFF sought and obtained from BESE’s SSPS Committee a substantial change in the complaint procedure that diminishes the influence of DOE’s professional staff. As the revised draft of the complaint procedure now reads, “The DOE shall have the opportunity to appoint two reviewers of the materials. The challenger, the LEA, and the publisher (if any) shall each have the opportunity to appoint one reviewer of the materials.” Furthermore, rather than allowing DOE to consider the reviewers’ reports and then make its recommendation to BESE, the revised draft now requires that “the DOE will forward the reports of the reviewers to BESE,” even though “the DOE may elect to make its own recommendation.” Consequently, the prerogative of DOE professionals to handle the review process and make a recommendation to BESE has been seriously undermined.

There is no guarantee that the three non-DOE reviewers, especially the school district’s and the publisher’s appointees, will have the requisite expertise to evaluate contested materials. A school district that permits the use of creationist materials is likely to choose a creationist reviewer. The publisher of creationist materials is virtually certain to choose a creationist. Moreover, the involvement of the LFF in the response to such complaints is a certainty. Charles Voss has “published” on the Internet creationist supplementary materials that he calls “Textbook Addenda“, which the LFF promotes on its website as among the “many practical alternatives available today to the uncritical teaching of evolutionism.” BESE’s amended complaint procedure guarantees that a creationist such as Voss himself or his supporters will be allowed to review their own materials. In fact, at the September 16 meeting, John Oller actually spoke in favor of a process that “provides the opportunity for people to produce supplementary materials along the lines that Dr. Voss has done”. The same holds for reviewers appointed by publishers of materials such as the Discovery Institute’s stealth creationist textbook, Explore Evolution, and its creationist DVDs, which LFF also promotes on its website. Such reviewers would be manifestly unqualified to render judgments concerning materials for use in Louisiana’s public schools.

In short, as BESE’s complaint procedure is now drafted, DOE’s expert reviewers will be in the minority, and DOE staff will not be allowed to independently assess the reviewers’ reports but must instead transfer the reports directly to BESE for evaluation. Judging from BESE members’ consistent concessions to LFF creationists concerning the implementation of the LSEA, their evaluations will be unlikely to favor scientific expertise and professionalism. On the contrary, BESE’s actions since the passage of the LSEA indicate that the board will rubber-stamp anything that Bayard and the LFF recommend. The approved procedure will enable creationists and their allies to turn every complaint about creationist materials into a dog and pony show that they can manipulate and exploit.

With the SSPS Committee’s approval of the pro-creationist complaint procedure on September 16, BESE has once again allowed the LFF to dictate policy governing science education in Louisiana.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Oct, 2009 10:39 am
@wandeljw,
Let them waste their time -- their religious zealousness will come of no avail IMHO. People mature and decide what is logical and rational and what is not. Some are trapped in that netherworld in-between. Always obsessing on maybe yes, maybe no just causes mental frustration and sometimes something more serious.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 04:48 am
@Lightwizard,
YEh buit its a crack in the "settled case" of teaching only evolution in public schools.
I must reluctantly admire their constant creative ways to split the starre decisis effect.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 08:03 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

LOUISIANA UPDATE
Quote:
Creationists Continue to Dictate BESE Science Education Policy
(Louisiana Coalition For Science, Press Release, September 28, 2009)

Among the creationists testifying was University of Louisiana-Lafayette professor John W. Oller, Jr., who is a member of the “Technical Advisory Board” of the young-earth creationist Institute for Creation Research in Dallas, Texas.


The YEC's have a "Technical Advisor"? And he's a professor at UL-L?

Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 08:47 am
@rosborne979,
They have a wiki too.

http://creationwiki.org/Main_Page

It's fun to read the entries on evolution.

T
K
O
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 09:04 am
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

They have a wiki too.

http://creationwiki.org/Main_Page

Cool.

Here's a little quote from their site:
Quote:
The fact that natural selection happens is acknowledged by both evolutionists and creationists. Organisms have been repeatedly observed adapting to their environment, and the role of natural selection in this process is observable and beyond reasonable dispute. The point of dispute is over the origin of genetic information and the cellular mechanisms responsible for maintaining and manufacturing genetic diversity. Creationists believe it to be the result of intelligent design, both directly through the act of Creation, and indirectly through the mechanisms of targeted genetic recombination.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 09:17 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
The YEC's have a "Technical Advisor"? And he's a professor at UL-L?


They do indeed. What is ros planning to do about it? Mr Oller did something of significance to reach those positions. What has ros done?

Do we want people who have put the effort into life that Mr Oller has obviously done advising on educational policy or do we want the indolent who only have snidey remarks to make from the sidelines?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 12:54 pm
"the indolent who only have snidey remarks to make from the sidelines"

Know Thyself, spendius.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 01:37 pm
@MontereyJack,
Laughing
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 01:54 pm
Water off a duck's back lads. Total waste of bandwidth.
 

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