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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 04:20 pm
kinky's kool.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 04:55 pm
@MontereyJack,
What?? With a hot chick into Darwin?

Methinks you are trying to pose as sophisticated from your rocking chair Jack.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 07:36 pm
For those who missed the Nightline debate and the O'Reilly battle of the Creationut pea brains:

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 07:58 am
ALERT. IMPORTANT MESSAGE to anti-IDers.

Readers of this thread are pining away for want of explanations for mind control/incomplete mind control/ no mind control, critical analysis, educated flock, 1%ers carrying a torch which would otherwise not be carried at all, science minus psychology, sociology and psychosomatic affects, education, open-ended enquiry, gnosticism and the homoousion of the Council of Niceae (the first probably).

In the absence of explanations of these terms viewers here are completely mystified by recent anti-ID posts as they are unintelligible idioglossia without them.

The first bit of Professor Germaine Greer's chapter Changing Concepts in Sexuality (Ch. Eight of Sex and Destiny) reads-

Quote:
Emancipated modern man acknowledges no great design of which he is a part, and bends the knee before no image. He congratulates himself upon transcending fear and superstition and assumes that he has entered into the bright calms of rationalism. He regards with half-amused dismay the frantic activities of the fanatics and devotees who are so easily mobilised to attack his cherished liberties, but he is too indolent to defend them with as much fervour or tenacity. Nevertheless the liberties survive, because they are not liberties at all but rather decoys which draw him safely away from political activity and the forming of groups which might disrupt the inert continuation of established power. He, never suspecting that he is himself a pawn, assumes that his liberties survive because they are the product of rational thought, and therefore right. The rightness removes from them the property of mere contingency so he regards countries and cultures where these same rights do not prevail as backward, superstitious and inhumane. The modern liberal is a bigot and his bigotry may be heard in the corridors of all the international organisations, the NGOS. the charitable cartels which seek to extend the cultural hegemony of the West with every tittle of "aid".

It has been argued many times that homo occidentalis has far too much faith in reason and his own power to deploy it, and therefore is as arrogant and evangelical as any other who considers himself endowed with ultimate wisdom through revelation or holy writ. The other side of the religion of rationalism is not so often described. Modern man is profoundly religious, but his religion is no longer centred upon the propitiation of heavenly or infernal powers, rather it concentrates on his propitiation of himself.


And it sure does show. And you can hardly get more arrogant and evangelical than deploying a heap of words which are left unexplained and which are simply assumed to be good or bad things presumably on the basis of their sound on the ear of those they sound righteous to which is a function of previous conditioning or mind control.

If Pavlov could have used fat salaries, fancy titles, reserved car parking and bathroom facilities, invidious in house class based distinctions and funds for expeditions to discover what is already known I daresay he could have got a dog to talk in any manner he wished.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 08:02 am
@Lightwizard,
I dont think Ive missewd anything of significance.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 08:04 am
@farmerman,
You guys miss whatever it suits you to miss effemm. That's obvious.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 08:45 am
@farmerman,
No, we haven't missed anything of significance, particularly the blathering by the resident troll.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 10:08 am
@Lightwizard,
whew, thanks. You know how I worry about these things Wink
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 10:10 am
@Lightwizard,
Your own side must be getting seriously concerned that its spokesperson's contributions are so infantile and that they produce posts using words they either can't or won't explain and resort to mindless blustering presumably in the hope that mindless blustering satisfies the intellectual curiosity of the neutrals.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 10:14 am
@spendius,
It is, or should be, LW, your one objective to persuade the neutrals to your cause. You and effemm are already persuaded and your mutual appreciation, such as it is, is totally pointless.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 11:26 am
@farmerman,
Is anyone really trying to persuade anybody else of anything? Wrong. Only one person on these threads is obsessed with an unethical persuation and we all know who that is.

Anyone who wants to take up learning about any of the subjects discussed here should do it on their own. This isn't a classroom -- it's a discussion board.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 11:47 am
@Lightwizard,
Okay then. Get discussing. Gnosticism is an ace subject and so are the two Councils of Nicaea. Just saying those words is not discussion. And the same applies to all those other buzz words I asked for an explanation of.

You're not even interested in a discussion.

And I am happy to admit that I'm trying to persuade neutrals. In Ms Greer's quote she mentioned the indolence of the modern liberal. That guy you laughed at, which is an easy thing to do, had at least got his arse in gear, made into onto to Fox, done a movie and been in a TV programme. You just shift junk mail to the bin.

At least effemm mounted a demonstration at a religious gathering once.

Of course it's a classroom. It's called Able 2 Know you silly moo.

And how would people know what subjects being discussed here they might study on their own unless they visited here. There's 21,645 views. And 264,510 on the ID thread.

This thread was only invented to fragment the discussion.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 12:13 pm
@Lightwizard,
hee hee
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 02:13 pm
@farmerman,
Very good effemm.

A quote from your mentor--it is from his Problems of Population. He is forseeing a future African professor explaining the scientific revolution--

Quote:
The great series of scientific discoveries which made it possible were due to a quite preponderating extent to the white race whose original home had been in Western Europe. However, the race proved unequal to its own greatness. Success sapped its energies and killed its spirit of adventure. They could not believe that the harder world, which we know, would be tolerable. They could not believe, as we know, that happiness has little relation to comfort or luxury. Consequently, they started to limit the numbers of their families in the fruitless expectation that in this way they would restrain the multiplication of the human race. Their numbers started to decrease at first relatively to the other races, and then absolutely; their peoples gradually faded away, and this once great race now survives precariously in a few of the less accessible parts of our earth.


He probably got the idea from Gibbon. Luxury sapped the Romans.

And guess who encourages luxury. Your good friends in the media conglomerates; seemingly stout Darwinians to a ? And now the missile defence shield in E. Europe is being pulled, your nukes are to be scaled back paving the way for infantry wars and the UN is being asked to take over.

Maybe that's the mechanism behind the revenge of the oppressed which you disparaged a while back when I mentioned it.

Still-it takes a long time and will see us out eh? But people wallowing in effete luxury talking about loving America is a bit retchy.

Ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 08:02 am
Quote:
150th birthday of 'On the Origin of Species' prompts area colleges to assess Darwin's impact
(Grand Rapids Press, September 26, 2009)

When Charles Darwin wrote “On the Origin of Species” in 1859, the British naturalist posited a theory " evolution by natural selection " that dismayed many scientists and theologians who held to the notion of “special creation.”

Now, as “Origin” is poised to celebrate its 150th anniversary in November, most scientists and many in the faith community have accepted the basic tenets of the book.

But one area of American society " education " continues to grapple with how to implement Darwin’s theory.

Though high schools have been at the center of the controversy, higher education institutions, especially Christian ones, also must make tough choices in determining their science curricula.

In a recent survey of area colleges and universities, The Press found all of the institutions that teach biology teach Darwinian evolution.

Only one, Cornerstone University, questions the theory’s validity and spends significant time teaching alternative explanations. Even most of the Christian schools " Calvin, Hope and Aquinas colleges " base their curricula on Darwin’s theory.

“Evolution is the paradigm out of which we teach biology,” said David Warners, a biology professor at Calvin. “We’re not trying to hide things; it’s just that we’re not looking for a fight.”

Much of the controversy, according to Hope biologist Thomas Bultman, is rooted in how Christians interpret the book of Genesis. Many view it as a literal account of creation, which is a mistake, he said. “It’s not a story about how the world came to be,” he said, “but of what our place in the world is.”

Bultman notices many students enter Hope with a “creationist/intelligent design” worldview, he said, and are frustrated by the biology curriculum.

Warners said there is a similar trend at Calvin, as many students begin college as strong opponents of evolutionary theory.

“It’s a challenge,” Warners said of teaching evolution, “and it needs to be done very sensitively.”

Reconciling faith and science is less of an issue at secular schools, which have no allegiance to religion or sacred texts.

But even there, educators must tread softly, said Gregory Forbes, a biologist at Grand Rapids Community College.

“Students come from diverse ideological backgrounds,” he said, “and you respect that in the classroom.”

Despite the controversy, educators must teach evolution, Forbes said, because it is the best scientific explanation. To reject the theory, he said, is like saying the earth is flat.

And yet, dissent persists in academia.

Cornerstone University, for example, incorporates evolutionary theory but does not base its science curriculums on it, said chemistry professor James Fryling.

“It is important " scientifically, politically, culturally,” Fryling said of Darwin’s theory. “So we do talk about it, but it’s certainly not the focus.”

Fryling said he believes in a six-day creation that happened less than 10,000 years ago. He readily admits this is not a scientific explanation.

“Science, however, is not the only way we have of knowing or explaining things,” he said.

Forbes’ problem with teaching creationism, he said, is it breaches the science-religion divide, which is why it is not included in GRCC’s curricula.

“In science, we’re limited to looking at empirical data,” Forbes said. “If it falls outside that realm of empiricism, science can’t address it. It might be true, but we can’t test it.”

The other schools surveyed expressed similar concern over creationism and intelligent design " the notion certain things in nature are best explained by an intelligent cause.

Calvin’s Warners said they are “worthy philosophical interpretations,” but they shouldn’t be considered scientific.

Though Calvin biology students are immersed in evolutionary theory, not all of them accept it.

Joe Moss, a senior biology major, has had three courses with Warners but remains unconvinced of Darwin’s theory, he said.

Moss, 21, went to a Christian high school in Chicago where he learned the flaws in evolutionary theory and was taught creationism.

He sticks to that view, he said, because “God’s word is true.”

Moss, who is planning a career in naturopathic medicine, said he knew he would be taught evolution at Calvin. But he was surprised at how extensively Darwin’s theory is implemented, he said.

“I’ve had some biology professors,” he said, “who say you’re not a scientist or biologist unless you believe in evolution.”

In the dispute over Darwin’s theory, there are polarizing figures on either side: scientists who ridicule alternatives to evolution, and dissenters who mock the theory.

But in the middle are men like Moss and Warners, who recognize their differences but strive for common ground.

“I still respect him,” Moss said of his professor, “as a Christian and a man of science.”
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 10:09 am
It must be traumatic for some, to leave home and discover one's concept of life not acceptable elsewhere. I suppose many would have to have a bit of deprogramming time.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 12:40 pm
Good article, Wandel. Often, the news on this topic focuses on the political side, who is fighting whom over what. But this is like a report from the trenches, where teachers have to deal with the practical consequences of this manufactured controversy.

Still, it's amazing--how can this student Moss expect to be a biologist while rejecting descent with modification through natural selection?
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 01:01 pm
There are still simple minded folk who still believe Darwin even posited a creation? The theory only upsets the quaint mythology of the Old Testament, that cut-and-paste extravaganza that gave DeMille so much material to make Sunday school level religious epics. It can't be found in Origin.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2009 05:27 am
@Lightwizard,
Darwin does , however, acknowledge a concept of "Creation" several times in the ORIGIN. He uses the term rather as an initiating event rather than a religious tenet.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2009 06:51 am
@farmerman,
Would he have used the word about a random accident with no meaning or purpose? Create implies an act. An originator. Accident implies non-design.

If he used creation to mean accident then his own work is an accident which is a proposition some extreme and honest materialists hold to. Which then leads to the obvious conclusion that all actions are accidents and as such deserve neither praise nor blame.

 

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