mismi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 11:49 am
@eoe,
I think they are pretty prepared. If I understand correctly, the wall is holding fairly well...I was talking about the continued rising of the Gulf from the storm surge.

There is only so much you can do when you have a storm as big as this in a place that is under sea level - realistically speaking there is no way to actually know until tested by a storm of this magnitude...we hope it never happens...but nature has it's own ideas. I have been extremely pleased with the evacuation this time. It is a shame but sometimes lessons do have to be learned the hard way - Katrina was excruciating and deadly for many. A lesson learned too late...by both the Federal Government and the local government there in New Orleans.

I just hope that they continue to improve and build up Nola to be even better prepared...as I do the rest of the Gulf Coast. You build on the coast though, and you have to expect some natural disasters to occur. The big part (and most important in my opinion) is the planning to get the people that have no ability to move themselves, to safety. I do believe it was accomplished this time. I hope anyway...reports I heard was 95% of the city had been evacuated...I'd say that is pretty decent.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 11:56 am
now it is time for everyone to bat each other on the back, hoping that the masses don't notice that this was not much of a storm. NO was expected to get a 10 foot surge where Katrina was 25 foot, and barely any hurricane strength winds. Not sure what the actual numbers were though.

You can count on the GOP to play like the Government's action with Gustav makes up for the failure with Katrina....no it does not.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:08 pm
The Harvey canal is still at risk. The peak time for surge and tides should be around 3:00.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:10 pm
Maj. Tim Kurgan, Army Corp of Engineers: (at approx 11:00 am)

(Regarding Industrial Canal )


We're always concerned about this area. It's one of the more vulnerable parts to the system. We've done a lot of work since Katrina. The gauge right now is reading 11 ½ feet. Walls are 12.2 feet. Getting wave action blown over by high winds. We have scour protection on the land on the back of the wall to keep it from getting scoured away. Even after 2011 when we build the 100-year system, there's always risk of overtopping and flooding from a larger larger storm. We've reduced the risk. Certainly we don't want to see the water coming into the city. We'll be getting construction on the surge barrier this fall. A 20.5 foot wall in the confluence of the GIWW (Gulf Intercoastal waterway). Height of walls in Industrial Canal between 12.2 and 15 feet. Latest gauge is 11.83 feet. Seen in increase in 9.64 feet in the past 24 hours. Only breach during Katrina was on the eastern wall in the Lower Ninth Ward. Replaced with the inverted t-wall.
mismi
 
  3  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:19 pm
@JPB,
Hopefully it's not a political thing (though sadly, it seems everything is - nauseating really) but concern for the people that live there that spur the engineers and the government on to make it a safer place. That is an encouraging word JPB.
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
It's time to appreciate that the government did learn from its past deficiencies, however. Katrina was absolutely unprecedented in modern times and nobody anticipated the devastation it wrecked and no administration would have been fully prepared for that. A governor and mayor, who had never experienced it, were unprepared.

This time FEMA was in place and ready to go no matter what. The governor and also Mayor Nagin acted magnificently. Had the worst happened, they were ready. As they will be from this time forward.

You can't take that away from them because everybody failed the first time.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:29 pm
@mismi,
or alternatively to not allow people to live there....for while no official policy has been announced the ninth ward has been depopulated. It can now flood with no harm. Offical numbers have over all re population of NO at 75% but there are credible claims that the real number is about 55% I see no indication that the American people are willing to spend what it would cost to keep NO dry today, and we certainly are not willing to spend what it would take to either address the coastal erosion problem that over times makes it more difficult to keep it dry or to keep increasing the defenses against the water. Depopulation is the agreed (ruling class) solution to the NO water problem.

Those who love NO don't want to hear it, but America has decided to let the gulf take much of it back, it is a shrinking city.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:10 pm
From the Times-Picayune

Jindal says too early to raise hopes of return home Tuesday
by Robert Travis Scott, The Times-Picayune
Monday September 01, 2008, 1:18 PM

BATON ROUGE -- Gov. Bobby Jindal said it is too early to raise hopes that evacuees from New Orleans will be able to return home Tuesday after Hurricane Gustav moves through, even though the brunt of the storm is aimed at a corridor stretching from Port Fourchon to Lafayette.

Earlier today by Mayor Ray Nagin said residents might be able to return to their homes within 24 to 36 hours after tropical storm force winds die down, depending on the damage left by the storm.

"It's certainly too, too early to say that it's safe for them to start coming back tomorrow," Jindal said in a news conference at the state's emergency operations center in Baton Rouge.

Roads and bridges must be inspected, debris cleared and other steps must be taken to ensure areas are safe for citizens to return home, Jindal said. Other considerations are power outages and the restoration of medical facilities and public services, he said.

Also, the full impact of the storm is not yet known, Jindal said. As of early afternoon the full eye had not made landfall, and the back of the storm potentially could cause significant flooding, especially in Lafourche Parish.

Some areas might be cleared for re-entry Tuesday by evacuees, he said. But with the storm still bearing down on the state, such hopes should not be raised, Jindal said.

"Tomorrow's too early; we need to let the storm come through," Jindal said.

The storm is on a path up Highway 90 through Houma, Morgan City and Lafayette, where hurricane force winds could be felt this afternoon.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:15 pm
@JPB,
these idiots will delay the return in order the make the process easy for them while claiming it is all about safety (fear up manipulation at work as usual), however it will backfire as the next time people are asked to leave more will refuse because they will remember that they were kept out of their homes and lives for far to long this time because it suited the interests of those in power.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:17 pm
@mismi,
hey, hun. Any news from your folks? How 'bout you -- anything where you are?

We're still in close contact with friends in Lafayette -- they're just starting to get hit.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 02:33 pm
Lafayette still targeted to get a direct hit. Current Navy forecasters are looking for a northward track into OK later in the week.

http://www.nlmoc.navy.mil/center/Tropical/wtnt01.gif
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 02:39 pm
@JPB,
My son was staying in Lafayette until about a week ago. Just visiting some folks.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 02:49 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

The computer models are all over the place with Hannah. No way of telling what she's gonna do.

http://tribunewx.wunderground.com/data/images/at200808_model.gif


they're starting to line up a bit more clearly now

~~~~

In the meantime, Gustav's heading off toward danon in Atlanta, Texas.
grrrrrrrrrrr
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 02:54 pm
@ehBeth,
Hanna looks NOT GOOD for Miss Letty...
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 03:11 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
Katrina was absolutely unprecedented in modern times and nobody anticipated the devastation it wrecked and no administration would have been fully prepared for that.
This is just so much nonsense. New Orleans was a ticking time bomb, is a ticking time bomb and still hasn't suffered the magnitude of death and destruction that's been imminently predictable for the better part of forever. The area of the Earth we call New Orleans has been periodically suffering much stronger storms than Katrina since before there were people. This isn't going to stop just because we want to live there now. Study after study demonstrated that New Orleans was a ticking time bomb and the only thing sillier than pretending "nobody anticipated the devastation" is pretending the Federal Government could (or should try) to make the city Hurricane proof. It's not going to happen. Sooner or later, however, a direct hit from a CAT-5 will.


Here's one example of "anticipated the devastation"
Quote:
On December 1, 2001, Science Writer Eric Berger wrote in the December 1, 2001, Houston Chronicle:

"New Orleans is sinking. And its main buffer from a hurricane, the protective Mississippi River delta, is quickly eroding away, leaving the historic city perilously close to disaster. So vulnerable, in fact, that earlier this year the Federal Emergency Management Agency ranked the potential damage to New Orleans as among the three likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country. The other two? A massive earthquake in San Francisco, and, almost prophetically, a terrorist attack on New York City. The New Orleans hurricane scenario may be the deadliest of all. In the face of an approaching storm, scientists say, the city's less-than-adequate evacuation routes would strand 250,000 people or more, and probably kill one of 10 left behind as the city drowned under 20 feet of water. Thousands of refugees could land in Houston. Economically, the toll would be shattering." (emphasis added)


New Orleans has dodged another bullet. The powers that be can thank God or good luck and take steps towards relocation… or they can pretend there was ever anything they could do about a CAT-5 and resume crossing their fingers against fate.
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 04:09 pm
@JPB,
Snood mentioned on another hurricane thread that he is at Ft Polk, LA, which is right below the A in Alexandria in JPB's map above. He said he was on duty at the base hospital and that his family is able to stay there with him. Gustav may disapate a fair amount but it could still be pretty nasty weather tomorrow afternoon or evening.
snood
 
  6  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 04:43 pm
@realjohnboy,
Good News! Just got out of a big meeting in the DFAC (cafeteria) w/the hospital cdr and the CSM. It is now officially not as bad as once thought. We will begin sending folks home tomorrow afternoon. they think the worst may happen tonight during the wee hours, but even that promises to be just a few blown down limbs and short power outages.

It looks like we overreacted and I'm glad we overreacted . Beats the heck out of the alternative, when someone could get hurt or lost or something and no one would know or be prepared...

Now there's just the small matter of 3 more tropical systems brewing out there... Hanna, Ike and ?
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 04:44 pm
@snood,
Verra good to hear from the Snood...

(stay dry)
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 04:46 pm
@snood,
Good, Snood..
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 04:48 pm
@snood,
Glad all is well with you and yours, snood. Thanks for checking in!
0 Replies
 
 

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