The 2008 Democrat Convention

That one earned you a week in the Ignore woodshed. How could you say that about a dying man?

think back on your life and tell me if you ever did something stupid that involved your dick that could have ended up a disaster.... and then tell me if you would like your entire life and body of work judged by it.

Someone has to. Sorta like we're not supposed to talk about the chosen one in any negative light either, or we get called racists.

Mary Jo is waiting for old Ted. You bet he doesn't want to die.

I'm glad I have a new HD TV. If I had a crappy old set it would have been riddled with bullet holes last night. What a party of idiots.

which has what to do with my question?

Do you think Unca Ted should be judged by running around in a loincloth ******* everything including underaged girls.... or by his work for the NRA that you admire?

Please do. For once.

What I often get from reading your posts are some very vague insinuations, and you mostly fail to point out exactly what it even was that you took issue with. I think you're going into this with some heavily preconceived notions, and you're trying desperately to find anything that feeds into the image you've made up for yourself, and you're looking for any shred of evidence that could possibly confirm those notions.

Now, there's no need to rehash all the past issues - we've been through all of them, from Ayers to Rezko to Wright. Let's not go there. I'm aware that you chose to believe in most of what you've heard.

But if you're taking issue with this specific speech that Michelle Obama gave, and you're taking issue with specific statements in this speech, then I don't think it would be asking too much of you to at least point out what exactly you're taking issue with.

Thank you.

Here are the quotes I am talking about:

"Barack stood up that day, and spoke words that have stayed with me ever since. He talked about “The world as it is” and “The world as it should be.” And he said that all too often, we accept the distance between the two, and settle for the world as it is " even when it doesn’t reflect our values and aspirations. But he reminded us that we know what our world should look like. We know what fairness and justice and opportunity look like. And he urged us to believe in ourselves " to find the strength within ourselves to strive for the world as it should be. And isn’t that the great American story?"

"They’ll tell them how this time, we listened to our hopes, instead of our fears. How this time, we decided to stop doubting and to start dreaming. How this time, in this great country " where a girl from the South Side of Chicago can go to college and law school, and the son of a single mother from Hawaii can go all the way to the White House " we committed ourselves to building the world as it should be."

Again, the Obamaites will accuse me of seeing things here that are not here. But the speech was designed as a feel good speech, to talk about family, to emphasize values that all Americans can relate to, but Michelle could not resist throwing in the comments about changing the country from what it is, with the hardships, with the doubts, injustices, etc. and transform it into something it should be, even the world as it should be. Now, apparently she wrote the speech, but it was tweaked some, perhaps softening it, but some limited reference to their mindset still made it through the editors.

I think they are a terribly angry pair of people with aspirations that go beyond what a president is capable of doing or should even try to do.

I don't admire Ted Kennedy's body of work.

And I do think you should take everything into account. I don't really compare youth indiscretions with murder.

I'll grant you that they may be zealots.... but we've had eight years of zealots and look at the result.

As long as we behave like zealots.... listen to zealots.... elect zealots.... model our behavior after zealots.... of both sides of the idealogical fence....well.... the pendulum will swing and swing and never come to rest on middle ground.

What the hell does anyone expect? A good result?

okay then.

This convention needs to highlight who Obama is and why we should trust him as president.

Obama needs to stand up and tell me who he is and why I should trust him.

Thanks for finding that excerpt.

I see where she (recounting Barack's words) is talking about the "The world as it is". Is that what you're taking issue with?

I mean, are you saying that acknowledging that we're not living in a perfect world amounts to being unable to see the positive side of things? Is that why you're calling them a "terribly angry pair of people"?

I can't disagree too much, but I simply point out that I think the girls were told what they could say, and as I said, I probably would do the same thing in their position, but I think it is naive of people here to believe the girls came up with all of that impromptu. Some aspects of it was of course, and I have no proof they were told what to say, but I suspect it, thats all. It doesn't matter, but my whole point is that the speech and interaction after the speech was totally planned and scripted from beginning to end. It wasn't practiced probably, like a play, but thats why it came off well for its intent.

Look, I have no problem with it all, its all sort of theater, and what people expect out of these conventions nowadays. The Obama people are taking it a bit further, and the stadium thing, in addition to the arena, some people are now speculating that it has been taken too far, and that the whole thing will backfire. I would prefer to go back to simpler times where alot of this junk, pomp and circumstance, was eliminated.

I won't bash Ted Kennedy because I think he is gravely ill. But neither does his illness erase those things for which he can be legitimately criticized and/or condemned any more than anybody's history is automatically erased because we feel sympathy for them.

James Carville said of the Democratic Convention that their first 'feel good' night wasted the first night of the convention but if their intention was to hide the message, they did a good job doing that.

Time will tell, but so far no noticable bump for Obama that can normally be expected during the convention.

We may entering a time where our leaders and we ourselves are becoming "other directed". That's scary, whether you're too far to the right or the left....

oe, just so you understand what I am saying, based on what she said in the speech, I would never conclude these people are angry zealots. I have concluded that from their previous statements and associations. Therefore, I read into what they say now with a better understanding of what those words really mean.

Let me also say this. I think they have been angry people in the past. I don't really know quite for sure where they stand in that regard at this very hour. I could not predict what their mindset might be tomorrow. If elected, they might wake up and realize, hey, the world was not all that bad as we thought it was? I have a theory that some people that have a complex of the world is against us, they imagine it, and it isn't anything like that at all. Perhaps they will realize that at some point, maybe they are beginning to now.

All I can do is guess, based on what they have done and said as part of their track record up to this point. Suffice it to say, as people, I find them more likable than the Clintons, the Gores, and the Kerrys, but I find their political motives to be highly suspect. I also think their political motives and views could still be in a state of flux, and who knows where they will end up. Who is Obama, that is still the question.

I agree. Dying doesn't erase how you lived your life...I just found certain remarks pretty offensive. Certainly, criticism is appropriate. Knock yourself out!! I really don't like Carville, but I agree with his assessment. Glad you're here! Love to compare notes!

Posting so this will appear in my posts. When are we going to get spell ck.

Enough with the concern trolling, Okie. You're a republican. This is the Dem convention. The 'some people think they are taking it too far' crap isn't necessary; it's your own version of the pomp, funnily enough.

I don't think the kid thing was scripted per se - I think the kids where told what questions to ask, but not to interrupt their dad in the middle of his prepared remarks. It clearly threw him off his game a little when his youngest kept doing it, and I don't think you can script that kind of parental moment. My guess is that the kids got a little excited and jumped the gun, which turned out to be pretty funny - and across the board, Republican and Dems, one of the best parts of the night for all watching.

I think that a lot of you guys here are missing the point of this convention: it isn't to sway moderates, it's to solidify up the Dem base. Obama is winning right now with only 80% of the Dem vote backing him; if they increase that even 5%, he will be extremely difficult for McCain to beat. This crowd doesn't need to be convinced that McSame represents something bad for America, they already know that!

Cycloptichorn

Thank you my friend. But I've put in my time criticizing Kennedy. I prefer to keep the focus now on the candidates and the message they're going to push in this convention. I do agree with Carville that there wasn't much there on Day 1. It was all emotional appeal to those they think can be swayed by emotional appeal. The Fox News straw poll this morning was running 60% - 40% favorable for Michelle's speech--most think she did a good job. The 40% are honing in on a scripted 'down home - girl next door image' intended to erase all her previous controversial statements and negatives.

As the MSM describes her as sometimes controversial, but mostly avoids repeating any of her statements that have created the controversy, and as they will almost certainly repeat and repeat and repeat the intended 'feel good' lines from last night's speech, we can conclude that her favorables might improve a bit.

Again time will tell.