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Convince Me That We Can Trust The Dems In Nov.

 
 
kuvasz
 
  3  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 03:13 pm
@Woiyo9,
Quote:
Apparently, you know nothing about the last 30 years of this US govt bullsh!tting Americans about "energy independence" and we are no further along than we were 30 years ago. As a matter of fact, our dependence on foreign imports is greater now than it was 30 years ago.

You post is largely based upon ignorance on your part as this objective voter places blame on both sides of the aisle. This energy subject has been a circle jerk for each party and the only ones getting rich are the politicians who receive "payday" from big oil companies.

I do not plan on jumping for joy (like you) about another small tax rebate for all. This is another circle jerk buy you democratic party leaders to try to "cheer" up folks like you.

Common sense dictates that if they can find money for a rebate, then lower the taxes immediately.

I would agree with middle class tax cuts so long as we define the middle as income earners from 50K to 250K/yr.

Neither candidate has a meaningful tax plan so get used to the fact that it will be up to Congress to handle the budget and if we have a Democratic congress, I predict higher taxes across the board.


Yeap it was Jimmy Carter who pleaded with his fellow citizens about making America energy independent back in '79, while you were still shitting in your drawers and I was a grown man, and since that time the Republicans moved to destroy energy conservation whenever they could with constantly attacking increased milage for new cars and doing the heavy lifting for the oil companies.

Even in 2001 Dick Cheney bad-mouthed energy conservation, so its pretty clear that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

But, don't get me wrong I call for a plague on both major political parties but you've got to be a ******* moron or blinded by knee-jerk partisanship to accuse the Democrats when they are the only party that has even attempted to deal with the issue.

And glad you finally have come around to being a "Marxist" as defined by the guy who started the thread, because your range/limit on tax cuts is not far off from Obama when compared to Mccain's.

btw since you stated that
Quote:
the only ones getting rich are the politicians who receive "payday" from big oil companies.


Can you tell the rest of the class where the majority of the oil lobby money is going to in the 2008 presidential election, because I can, and it sure isn't the Democratic candidate Obama who has received $394,715 while the Republican candidate Mccain has received $1,110133.

http://prezoilmoney.oilchangeusa.org/index.php

Over the last eighteen years, from 1990-2008

the Democrats received ........... $54,376,295
the Republicans reeived ............$166,126,945

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=E01

So three out of every four dollars that the oil industry spent on lobbying congress went to the party and canidate whom you support. Try wiping off your mirror because your worst enemy is staring right back at you.

BTW I never cashed in my $600 rebate check because the government had to borrow the money from the Chinese just to pay for it, and I did not want my government to be any more beholden to those thugs if I could avoid it. I burned the check as an act of patriotism, but knowing Republicans I bet you cashed yours, didn't you? and $600 more was borrowed to cover it from a communist government that would kill us in our sleep if they could.

So let me end with throwing back to you your own insult:

Quote:
Apparently, you know nothing about the last 30 years of this US govt bullsh!tting Americans about "energy independence" and we are no further along than we were 30 years ago.


Because you are the person who is speaking out of your ass.
Ramafuchs
 
  3  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 10:24 pm
@kuvasz,
I read twice all the reactions in this thread.
You are a Georgeon and a socialist to boot with. ( according to your profile.
How about exposing the hypocracy of your present president?
Or Just like me how about exposing the hypocracy of American war against Iraq.
Care to answer sir?
I was born in India and live in Germany and dead against the barbaric uncivilzed war against Iraq.
Accept my thanks in advance if you care to respond.
kuvasz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Aug, 2008 11:53 am
@Ramafuchs,
Quote:
I read twice all the reactions in this thread.
You are a Georgeon and a socialist to boot with. ( according to your profile.
How about exposing the hypocracy of your present president?
Or Just like me how about exposing the hypocracy of American war against Iraq.
Care to answer sir?
I was born in India and live in Germany and dead against the barbaric uncivilzed war against Iraq.
Accept my thanks in advance if you care to respond.


rama i appreciate your remarks.

i am an american who just moved from the state of georgia to the state of michigan. my intellectual disgust with american conservatives and republicans in general is fairly well known on a2k. my father was a factory worker and union organizer, and i hold an ms and phd in chemistry and run a chemical company as well as a consulting company.

its not that i disagree with conservative philosophy but that conservatives have no cogent philosophy at all, making illogical, emotional, and unsubstantiated excuses (including this thread for example) simply to mask their petty desires for political and social power and thirsty greed.
H2O MAN
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Aug, 2008 12:21 pm
@Ramafuchs,
Ramafuchs wrote:

I was born in India and live in Germany and dead against the barbaric uncivilzed war against Iraq.


Must be the German influence because all of my Indian friends fully support the battle for Iraq.
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 10:38 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
Quote:
Ramafuchs wrote:

I was born in India and live in Germany and dead against the barbaric uncivilzed war against Iraq.



Must be the German influence because all of my Indian friends fully support the battle for Iraq.


For 25 points name a country besides Isreal that has fought three wars against muslim nations in the last 60 years?

Your answer, please?
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  2  
Reply Sat 30 Aug, 2008 02:32 pm
@kuvasz,
Thanks.
I am here to learn from you all.
I am too critical and spend a lot of time in computer to read all the views and then i pick up a subject for discussion with my selected cut and paste.
Of course my English is faulty but i can understand the non-faulty english.
This forum should not be infested with the same old patriotic- read pathetic prechers.
new members are perusing this A2K and leaving without trace.
That irks me a lot.
Rama
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2008 09:02 pm
@kuvasz,
Thanks.
Take it easy or make it easy.
Life is easy but
To slive is not that easy.
back to the subject.
Are there any regular members in this forum who are vivid and active like my poor self need any clarification to protest against the compassionate, conservative, god-sponsered but corporate controlled candidate who uphold the 8 years barbaric rule?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 08:19 am
@RexRed,
Rex, I will take you at your word that you want to be convinced (though I really doubt that is possible) or just have a civil discussion on your comments below.

RexRed wrote:

I come off as a conservative but I am actually a moderate with a conservative ideal. Though today’s conservationism is FAR from perfect and enshrines much of the hate a bigotry that I have had to sadly vault over, there is the Jesus factor of the conservatives that still strongly holds me tied, but loosely, to the republican party. Also I am, terrified of socialism (not black people) and what it could do to the democratic fiber of our current governing system.


My pastor like to say that Jesus was more conservative than any Republican and more liberal than any Democrat. While He would not tolerate many of the weasel excuses that pass in politics, nor would he tolerate the failure to provide a minimum of support to the "least of us" in our society. Some of what you are "terrified" of, social programs that provide a minimum level of support for the most disadvantaged in our society, are things that Jesus would consider as minimum obligations to our fellow citizens. There is a large spectrum between providing a minimum safety net and socialism. Specifically, I believe that the following government programs are beneficial to our democratic society:

Social Security: Provides a very minimal payment to people who gave to society their entire lives. Reduces the burden on the next generation of workers. Helps to keep seniors in their homes.
Public Education: An educated populus makes better decisions, generates more jobs through innovation and works better and harder than an ignorant one.
School lunch programs: No child should be truly hungry in the United States.
Basic healthcare: Besides the obvious reasons of not turning a blind eye to the suffering of others, it is cost beneficial to our society as a whole to control illness and disease in a pro-active manner.
Veteran support: Those who sacrificed in war for our sake deserve our support. When I hear about VA funding shortfalls and Army teams discouraging veteran support groups from helping our soldiers get the support I need, I see red.

RexRed wrote:

Thus I will not this Nov. even vote for a single democrat, PERIOD, out of conscience. I did vote for Gore so I am certainly not purely partisan. I am WELL aware of the homophobia in the republican party and find it distasteful and disgusting, but the republican ideal of small government seems to be a highly redeeming quality. I am also not a liberal because I believe in virtue, and liberality does not have any type of real SOLID standards or stop gaps to keep the party from spiraling into utter decadence and moral disarray. I find utter decadence even more troubling than the evident and often vicious homophobia in the republican party.


So why would you believe that Democrats don't have "any type of real SOLID standards?" Why would you believe that Republicans do? Because they claim to be "saved" even when their actions don't support that? Do you get more credit for your words or your actions? Why did our current adminstration falsify documents to show that Iraq was a threat to the US? What standards drive you to do that? To slime your opponents, to fire attorneys who don't toe the line, to reveal the identity of CIA operatives whose husbands take a position in opposition to yours? Several years ago, I was posting in a thread and some Europeans were claiming that the US was torturing prisoners. I categorically dismissed those allegations. I NEVER thought the US government would sanction such things because we had real, solid standards. I was wrong, but it wasn't the Democrats doing it.

You think the Republicans are for small government? Why? No evidence based on the last few years. Do you think the Republicans are for supporting our country? Not when they refuse to spend to support basic infrastructure like roads and bridges. At this point, someone will point out that we spend billions on infrastructure, but every study on infrastructure spending says that we are not spending nearly enough and not on the right things. Other countries are building levies that are proof against 750 or 1000 year floods while we build for 50-100 years. They are building high speed trains and better roads. How will we be competitive in 20 years when our country is falling further and further behind.
RexRed wrote:

Then the are the Dick Cheney’s in our party, openly proud of their lesbian daughter... So actually I am a sometimes RADICAL moderate (oxymoron), holding back the republicans from legislating hate and holding the liberals DOWN from realizing their George (legalize drugs for kids) Soros, DOWN WITH AMERICA HATE, which I truly believe to be the end of civilized ("progressive") society as we know it.


Once again, how can you believe this? Don't Democrats have children they love just like you love yours? Sure, there are some radical lefties out there who promote legalizing recreational drugs, but there are MANY more who do not. What do you consider DOWN WITH AMERICA HATE? Do you consider my opposition to the Iraq war as DOWN WITH AMERICA HATE? I love my country, served in it's armed forces, and hate to see it's ideals twisted and perverted. When Republicans started marching us to war for dubious reasons, I changed dropped my party affiliation.

RexRed wrote:

I can certainly defend myself if provoked and if either party as they stand today were to try and extinguish the other I would (with my vote) be there to raise up the underdog. I believe Obama is a rank, sold-out political puppet to special interest and I think he is simply and opportunist flip flopping only for that blind obsession of the precious White House that the dems have placed above even the ethical work of American public as whole.


OK, but why do you believe that? Did he tell you that repealing the federal gas tax was a good idea even when economists all over the country said that the public would see little savings but the impact on the highway budget would be extreme? Oh no, that was someone else. Did he lie to you by saying that his tax program will benefit working families more than his opponents? No, that was the truth. Maybe someone else lied about that. Has he run the ultimate insider campaign, sucking up all the air from all the other candidates? No, he defeated that candidate based on a grass-roots effort and support from millions of folks from the "American public as (a) whole". Did he make his way on his father's or wife's money or reputation (like Bush I, Gore, Kerry, Bush II, McCain)? No, I guess he just worked hard in the public schools, studied hard and did ok. Not a bad example in my book. Certainly better than partying hard, finishing close to last in his class and using his father's pull to get a plum assignment. On this, I really have no hope of changing your opinion, but there is very little out there to support your view of Obama. You may not like him; you may like McCain better for whatever reason, but your comments about him are not supported by my observations.

RexRed wrote:

I have found the actions (or lack thereof) of the Democratic party in the last eight years purely petty, spiteful and reprehensibly unforgivable. Many do not realize I voted for Gore. The dems have become too strong and need another eight more or years to mature, if ever. To bad Nancy Pelosi had to (as the first woman speaker of the house) sell her soul for more (Murtha) pork barrel spending. ALL FOR POWER over principle.

As someone who was a Republican eight years ago, I find the actions (definitely not lack thereof) to be petty and spiteful (Plame, attorneys) and reprehensibly unforgivable (Iraq, torture).
RexRed wrote:

Convince me that what I have laid out here is not the TRUTH. Convince me that the dems are not trying to foster a one party system to usurp power for a future dictatorial rule. Even at the expense of American security they have tried to make our vital war efforts fail, AGAIN! Convince me that the dems actually have a policy other than the daily “change” rhetoric of policies that dizzies the mind like a well shifted shell game shuffle. Convince me that the dems are not playing with the American future trading conscience for control. Convince me that the dems are not pathological liars accusing Bush of "failed policies" to distract voters from clearly seeing their own troubling abyss of sociopath-like lies and hypocritical deceit. Only a weak marionette (Obama) pushover clown tied to big corruption and big money could win the favor of such a low life organization as move-on dot org.

Convince me that I am WRONG

I really have not hope of convincing you, but I wanted to respond. The reason I feel there is not hope is that the things you accuse the Democrats of trying to do, foster a one party system, usurp power for a future dictatorial rule, etc are things that the Republicans directly say they are trying to do. They proudly proclaim they want a permanent majority, they've repeatly marginalized the Democrats. For you to so strongly believe otherwise makes we certain there is not hope of swaying you, but maybe someone else will read this and see my counter argument.
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 11:13 am
@engineer,
"but maybe someone else will read this and see my counter argument. "
as usual sir i read with rapt attention your above response..
When we mix religion and politics then we show our weakeness.
If we try to expose hypocracy around us then we are trying our level best to make the society as a rational one.
As you had opined in your response, I am also not here to convert/convince anyone but to expose the other angle of thinking.
I appreciate your individual views.
Accept my regards
Rama
0 Replies
 
 

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