Single, childless, and terrified

I want to read the whole article but I do have to say that it has always really bothered me when people have kids so that they have someone to take care of them when they get old. What's up with that?

Yeah, I thought people have kids for the free labor around the house...

(joking)

I agree - I had children because I wanted children - no strings attached. I will raise them so they can be the best they can and then fly the coop. I wouldn't want them to change their lives because I needed special care - I would hope they would ensure I was taken care of, but not have to give up their lives, move or change anything.

One thing I would suggest to such a person is if they are that worried, take out a long term care insurance policy - that would pay for any assisted living or similar as they age.

I am interested in the idea of friendship as "unsanctioned" relationship - that society and the law does not give it much weight or function.

I can't afford a long-term insurance policy and I certainly don't want to disrupt the lives of my son and his family.

But why is a caring relationship, whether it be friendship or otherwise, so unexamined in this light?

The demographics in the years to come will prove this to be a big issue.

I think this issue is addressed with health care proxies (proxys?). That, along with a medical directive should solve any problems.

In some ways though - we will have lots of old geezers (myself included of course) so wouldn't their be friendships made by having so many old people?

Years ago, when there were many small farms, couples had many children just for that reason. They needed the extra hands to do the chores that had to be done on a farm. When the country became more industrialized, the need for many children diminished, and the birth rate dropped.

I am single and childless. I am still young enough not to be terrified about growing old this way. But, I do think about it (in unterrified terms).

Magginkat just sent me an article published in 2004 on this topic. It is quite specific about certain things.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F01E3DF113CF934A15751C0A9629C8B63&amp;sec=&amp;spon=&amp;pagewanted=print<br />

"February 27, 2004
Older Women Team Up to Face Future Together
By JANE GROSS

Michele Smith and Jenny Young, the best of friends, were in their mid-50's when fear of illness and incapacity set them to joking, bleakly, about side-by-side rocking chairs at an old folks' home.

Instead, they decided to pool their resources, build a home in a gentle climate, divide the chores, buy insurance for long-term home health care and meanwhile enjoy the pleasures of female friendship.

This friends-helping-friends model for aging is gaining momentum among single, widowed or divorced women of a certain age. The census does not tabulate households like these, and experts say it would be too early to see large numbers of older women living with friends, since few baby boomers, born from 1946 to 1964, have retired yet. But sociologists and demographers say the interest is growing.

The logic is compelling. Women of the baby-boom generation, many of whom have managed businesses or owned real estate, are accustomed to controlling their own lives. They tend to have close female friendships. Many have watched the slow death of their parents, dependent on children or paid caretakers. They want something better for themselves. Aging with friends could be the answer.

''All the indicators are there that this will happen, given the culture of the baby-boom generation,'' said Rebecca G. Adams, professor of sociology at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, who is one of the nation's most prolific scholars on friendship. Professor Adams cites a life span among women that is longer than that of men, the nature of female friendship and the previous experience of women in this age group living in communal settings.

''This is a fantasy among women just now making serious decisions about their retirement and beyond,'' she said. ''But these are women extremely likely to take the steps necessary to live that fantasy.''

Among women, the interest is unmistakable. Post an inquiry on the Internet or broach the subject at any female gathering, and the responses pour in. The details vary, but the intentions are the same: to find a way to share the burdens and tap into the pleasures of old age by teaming up with girlfriends.

''These are the wonderful, nurturing relationships we've grown up with,'' said Laura Young, 53, executive director of the Older Women's League. ''We lived together in dorms and sororities. We shared apartments after graduation. We traveled together. We helped each other through divorce and the death of our parents. Why not take it to the next level?''

There is no guidebook on how to finance such a living arrangement; those who have tried have invented as they go along. Some have considered arrangements akin to a prenuptual agreement, spelling out rights and responsibilities.

''I'm waiting for a light bulb to go on in somebody's head,'' said Paul Kleyman, editor of Aging Today, the publication of the American Society on Aging. ''Before long, there'll be a business to help people do this.''

Michele Smith, divorced with four grown children, and Jenny Young, single and retired as an assistant principal, are finding their own way in Port Charlotte, Fla., far from the neighborhood in Columbus, Ohio, where their friendship deepened over 15 years of shared secrets, family celebrations and emergencies.

Their timing was excellent. Ms. Young, 55, has had a hip and knee replacement and can no longer hoist her Samoyed into her S.U.V. So Ms. Smith, 58, had the idea of ordering a dog ramp.

''When one of us is having difficulties, the other one kicks in,'' Ms. Smith said.

Aging with other women is not only about taking care of aches and pains. Pooled resources and good company can make it fun as well. Christine Perkins, an Ohio contractor in her early 60's, built a house for herself and three friends in rural Ohio. It has electrical outlets that can be reached without bending. But it also has an exercise room and a hot tub.

Even women still in marriages or other heterosexual relationships often assume that men will not always be part of their lives. This is often a matter of demographics, since women live seven years longer on average and thus expect to be widows. That is the case with Harriet Dubroff, a retired principal in a relationship with a man, and Florence Isaacs, a married freelance writer; both their mates are in declining health.

Those two women, in their mid-60's, hope to wind up in adjacent apartments in Lincoln Towers, a high-rise complex on the Upper West Side of Manhattan with so many elderly residents that social services are already in place. Ms. Dubroff took a fall recently that left her shaken. Ms. Isaacs has vision problems. Together they hope to enjoy the bounty of New York City longer than they could alone, and joke that they will do just fine as long as one of them can walk and one can see.

Linda Young, 53, who teaches at a community college in Palm Desert, Calif., sees her future in a rural setting. A friend inherited a farm in Washington State where a half-dozen women already vacation together. With outbuildings that could be upgraded for live-in caregivers, and with a pottery studio and a view of Mount St. Helens, ''it would not be a bad way to complete our lives,'' Ms. Young said.

She noted that women were drawn to this idea not only because they expect to outlive their mates but also because they trust their friends to be good caretakers. Ms. Young was married for 25 years, was on her own for 10 and is now with a male partner she describes as totally reliable. Still, she prefers the idea of aging with friends.

''A lot of men just can't go there,'' Ms. Young said. ''They didn't change their children's diapers, so why do we think they're going to change their wives'?''

Men do not seem to entertain comparable ideas. Dennis Kodner, executive director of the Brookdale Center on Aging, at Hunter College, says all the men he knows expect that a woman will care for them.

''We don't really have those kinds of friendships,'' Mr. Kodner said.

And Tim Cisneros, a Texas architect who designed a home for two women in 1997 and has had half a dozen requests for similar houses since, said women ''are better at planning for the future.''

Taking care of their own parents, an experience of growing numbers of baby boomers, has been ''a wake-up call,'' said Sandra Timmermann, director of the MetLife Mature Market Institute, which supports MetLife with research on issues related to aging. In 1940, Ms. Timmermann said, only 13 percent of people over 60 had a living parent. In 2000, 44 percent did.

Especially when they have no children, their fears quicken. Mary MacLellan, who spent down her retirement savings caring for her mother after she broke a hip, wondered, ''What in the name of God will become of me?'' But her worries eased when she and six other women in Nova Scotia, ages 50 to 68, began discussing living together.

As for legalities, the early adopters flew by the seat of their pants.

Ms. Perkins insisted on rules about future responsibility to nurse one another. ''A cold, yes, we'd give each other chicken soup,'' she said. ''End-stage Alzheimer's? I guess somebody might. But you're not even allowed to ask.''

The women Mr. Cisneros built a house for, Dorothy Howard and Callie Camp, each have a daughter, so they specified inheritance rights. An heir cannot sell her share while the other original owner is alive. And the surviving owner is under no obligation to welcome the deceased's daughter as a roommate.

Aliana Alexander, 62, is hungry for guidance on how she and a lifelong friend can cobble together such a future. Ms. Alexander, a retired math teacher, is twice divorced, and her children are scattered. Her friend, a nurse, is a widow. They already hold each other's health care proxies. They also own homes in Newburgh, N.Y., that if sold would pay for a shared residence.

A while back, Ms. Alexander called Mr. Cisneros for tips on designing a house. Recently, she sought advice from Ms. Perkins about contractual agreements. Such technicalities are Ms. Alexander's only misgiving.

''Other than that, the whole arrangement seems ideal,'' she said. ''We've already shared the good and bad for over 60 years. There'd be no surprises. We know how to care for each other because we know how to care for ourselves. All we want is to safeguard our quality of life, our independence and our pride.'' "

Yeah like I said - all the old geezers will get together and help each other - just watch out they/we (when I get there) will be taking over the world.

Many situations like this do exist. My grandmother (before she needed 24 hour care) lived in a elder independent apartment. Basically it was like any other apartment complex - just it wasn't as expensive, they offerred lunch dauly and the residents sort of looked out for each other.

And I wouldn't want that to change. A big parts of what makes friendship worth having is that they're voluntary.

As to who cares for you at old age, I think the solution is to save for elderly care as you do for retirement. And if that doesn't work -- there's a lot of denial going on about what happens during one's final years -- another option is a public program similar to Social Security. That's what we established in Germany about 20 years ago.

But yeah, being single and childless definitely is definitely a concern.

I've certainly thought about it. I'm married with step children but, I wouldn't feel confortable depending upon them. My husband is ten years older than i so, if things follow the natural course, he will go before me.

I've thought about my two best girlfriends, my cousin, perhaps her sister. We're all friends. But who's house? Mine? Cuz? Stay here or head for Houston? Back to Chicago? And how easy will it be for three or four women, all accustomed to being "The Queen" of the house, survive under one roof?

So much to think about. But it certainly IS something to think about.

My best friend from college is single and childless. We've known each other since we were both eighteen. Her mother is elderly and ill, her only sister has terminal lung cancer and her older brother is around, but not very involved in her life - busy with his own.

When I saw her in June she spoke of feeling alone now - with the knowledge that she'll feel more alone when her mom and sister die. I just told her that she'll never have to be alone unless she wants to. She's as much a sister to me as my own sisters - in some ways we're closer.

And actually, I hope she takes me seriously. I always enjoy having people outside my family come to live with us and become part of our family. I've probably spent more of my life having a nonfamily member friend living with me and my kids than not - I always enjoy it - having grown up with five brothers and sisters - I always feel it's too quiet when it's just the three of us, and I always feel it's more interesting and as much of a benefit to us as to the person who is staying with us.