0
   

28 years ago on this date.

 
 
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2008 04:08 pm
Lech Walesa Leads Shipyard Strike (1980)
As leader of the trade union Solidarity, Walesa, a moderate, gained numerous concessions from the Polish authorities before his arrest and internment during the military crackdown of 1981. He was released in 1982 and was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize a year later. In 1990, Walesa was elected president of Poland. He failed to win reelection in 1995 and ran again in 2000. What percentage of the vote did he receive that year?
The question is that simple.
Can anyone give an apt reply?
Thank you
 
DrewDad
 
  4  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2008 04:14 pm
@Ramafuchs,
Wikipedia says 1%. But the reference is in Polish, so I can't verify.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_presidential_election,_2000
Ramafuchs
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2008 06:03 pm
@DrewDad,
I am not sure that 1 percent is the correct answer.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Aug, 2008 12:22 am
@Ramafuchs,
I can't decide if you're just stating your ignorance, or attempting to tell me I'm wrong.

I'll assume you're not a blathering idiot and ask, "then what do you believe the correct answer is?"
Ramafuchs
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Aug, 2008 10:44 am
@DrewDad,
"blathering idiot "
Be decent and civil to discuss.
bash not the participants with your banal English.
I had opined 1 percent is wrong
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Aug, 2008 10:58 am
@Ramafuchs,
I see you have refuted my assumption.
Ramafuchs
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Aug, 2008 11:22 am
@DrewDad,
Don't assume or presusume according to your rational observations.
I am not as qualified as you are nor you are a person to stoop such a low abysmal level as I try to.
The Fact is this 1 percent is not correct.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Aug, 2008 04:32 pm
@Ramafuchs,
In 2000, Lech Walesa received 178,590 votes, or 1.01% of the vote - Drew was right. See any of these links:

http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/p/poland/poland2000.txt
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/961814.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_presidential_election%2C_2000
Ramafuchs
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Aug, 2008 03:00 pm
@nimh,
You had corrected the first respondents view with three links..
My question is this. Why- I repeat why- USA had approved a person who least respect in the world. I mean BUSH family and his famous Anti-communist with noble prize.
.What kind of politics you people wish to make?
Polish or Bushish?
Ramafuchs
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Aug, 2008 03:24 pm
@Ramafuchs,
GBS has once opined this.

"The upholders of Capitalism are
dreamers and visionaries who,
instead of doing good with evil intentions …
do evil with the best intentions."


"All movements which attack
the existing state of society
attract both the people who are
not good enough for the world
and the people for whom
the world is not good enough."

" From Preface to Androcles and the Lion (1913)

"It is said that every people
has the government it deserves.
It is more to the point that every government
has the electorate it deserves."

" From Preface to Heartbreak House (1919
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  5  
Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 07:37 am
@Ramafuchs,
Quote:
My question is this. Why- I repeat why- USA had approved a person who least respect in the world.

Huh? You mean, why did the US praise a person in 1980, when he was to do really badly in elections in 2000? Umm, because the situation was very different twenty years earlier?

This is silly. Your cherrypicking of his lousy election result in 2000 conveniently ignores the fact that Walesa took part in three successive presidential elections after the fall of communism - and in the first elections after the fall of communism, Walesa won. Easily. He won the run-off with three-quarters of the popular vote.

The second time, in 1995 - another election you're conveniently ignoring by just picking the 2000 results - he lost the run-off by a hairwidth, getting half of the vote.

Then, as a political has-been who'd had his best times behind him, he tried again in 2000, and he was ignored - and got the 1% result you tout here. What in heaven's name is that last result supposed to say about how popular or right he was in 1980?

There is no doubt that Lech Walesa was extremely popular in 1980. In fact, he was obviously still very popular in 1990, once communism had fallen and people first got the freedom to choose their own president. In those elections, he ran on the popularity that he acquired as leader of the 1980 revolt of the trade union Solidarity against communism. And despite the fact that bitter infighting had already started within the Solidarity movement, he won.

In the first round, he received 6,569,889 votes, or 39.96% of the vote, while another candidate who came from the Solidarity movement and the 1980 revolt against communism, Tadeusz Mazowiecki, won a further 18% of the vote. Come the second round, all the supporters of Solidarity and opponents of the former communist regime banded together behind Walesa, and he won with a whopping 74.25%, or 10,622,696 votes, against Stanisław Tymiński.

So - yes, Walesa was a very effective and popular leader of the anti-communist opposition, and the 1980 revolt against communism; and that popularity carried him over into winning the first presidential elections in post-communist Poland.

He was not, however, as it turned out to be, an effective politician in the new system. Once the communist dictatorship was gone, his popularity gradually waned too, in no small part because of his own mistakes. Nevertheless, in the next presidential elections in 1995 he still got mighty close to winning again. He got 5,917,328 votes, or 33.11%, in the first round, and in the run-off he got 9,058,175 votes, or 48.3%, against Kwasniewski's 51.7%.

After that, things really went downhill for him, as the 2000 results show. But the fact that later on things went downhill for Walesa, says exactly nothing about whether he was popular in 1980, or whether the West (including both left-wingers and right-wingers) was right to praise him back then. His Nobel Peace Prize of 1983 was much deserved.
Ramafuchs
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2008 05:46 pm
@nimh,
Let me stoop to such an abysmal level of some of the flag-waving compassionate consume-oriented cultureless civilions.

A person who was admired by all the COMRADES-IN ARM got defeated and left the political podium.

In Pakisthan one funny bed-fellow had quit because of the unholy word
IMPEACHMENT.
IN USA YOU CAN ONLY DREAM OF SUCH things .
because.........................
nimh
 
  4  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2008 06:35 pm
@Ramafuchs,
Ramafuchs wrote:
A person who was admired by all the COMRADES-IN ARM got defeated and left the political podium.

Yep - thats how democracy works. People have their time ... and then their time is over.
Ramafuchs
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2008 11:48 am
@nimh,
Yes sir.
Death is communist.
But corporate culte is not.
( I beg the computer intellectuals in A2k to educate me)
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Aug, 2008 02:43 pm
@Ramafuchs,
Able to know, i thought to correct the views of the participants.
In this thread only two had tried to correct my faulty views while many couch-potatoes had silently wish to drag me out withou words by putting or showing their intelligence with negative assessment.
Is it the real forum to learn something from others? or a podium to chase away the ignorants like me so that only a handful of intellectuals infest/ occupy/dominate this forum?
Oh what a wonderful world is this!!!!!!
nimh
 
  3  
Reply Sun 24 Aug, 2008 03:11 pm
@Ramafuchs,
Ramafuchs wrote:

In this thread only two had tried to correct my faulty views

Yeah, and when the first one did so, you refused to listen to him. And now you're faulting others for not repeating the same thing that both of us already told you as well?
Ramafuchs
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Aug, 2008 05:12 pm
@nimh,
Are you allergic to accept my observations about others?
Had i stooped to such an abysmal level to degrade your response and project my ignorance?
I wish to be Rama come what may.
0 Replies
 
literarypoland
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Mar, 2009 12:58 pm
Walesa is nowadays a commentator of current events, as if keeps a watchful eye on everything that's going on in Poland. He lives in Gdansk.
Lost to Kwasniewski in 1995 because Kwasniewski was more educated, more presidential, more of a media personality. People may have blamed Walesa for heavy unemployment after several years of transformation.
In 2000, he was already a figure from the past, and didn't belong to any major political movement. Became an outsider, and has remained one, criticizing the Kaczynskis. Generally, he is a supporter of big business, that is PM Tusk, but doesn't belong anywhere.
0 Replies
 
 

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