Cutting and Purging

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I'm a moderator on another web forum that is mostly populated by exchange students.

The administrators have decided to create a closed forum for those kids who want to discuss sensitive issues. Issues that they don't want their parents or exchange organisers to know about.

There are a number of young adults who post about anorexia , bulimia and eating disorders. Other posts involve SI (self injury) (cutting burning).

Most of these kids could reasonably easily be tracked and someone closer to them than I could be informed and get them the help they need?

Do I have a responsibility to inform the exchange organization?

What damage might informing on a kid who is purging/cutting do?

Might there be legal ramifications if I do nothing?

some quotes

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Okay, for some background on me.
I've always been weird with food, picky and whatnot, but the ED habits didn't start until I was around 11 or 12 years old. I started restricting what I ate, and three years ago, I discovered purging. I've tried getting better on my own, but keeping it a secret makes it nearly impossible. Throughout my exchange I had problems with purging, but I mostly kept it to myself, though my close friends found out(it was kind of obvious). And now...here I am today.

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I have eating disorders too.
I'm bulimic, I purge, and sometimes I'm a bit anorexic.
I'm really afraid to gain weight during my exchange, and I'm afraid of someone hearing me purging if I do, because being sent home because of that would be horrible.

(SI thread)

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My Mom saw my burns...oh joy...I got away though...now I need to think of how else I could've gotten these things so she doesn't know that I really burned myself....great.

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My mom saw mine a few times too. She would just say "how'd you get those?" and then never bring it up again. Part of me is glad that she didn't make a big deal out of it, but part of me wishes that she had done it just so I'd know that she cared, at least a little.

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Yeah, sometimes I kind of wish they were visible but other times I don't...I think if she brings it up again then I'll just say I was bashed against a wall in TKD.

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No takers?

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I read this dadpad - it breaks my heart for the young people. I do believe someone should know - but - kids trust is so fragile. If they find out that the place that they are "safe" is bugged they won't share...and sometimes talking it out is so good. I am watching this thread with interest hoping that someone with more knowledge and understanding of kids that go through this can help. I can't imagine feeling that lost -

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I think (but am not sure) that all you can really do in that situation is post resources. Maybe post as another exchange student if you don't want to freak them out about being monitored. If they know that there is a mod watching, you can go ahead and post as yourself -- but be prepared for follow-through which might be hairy.

What is your site's privacy policy? It sounds like they open up because they think they have privacy. You don't want to go against that, just in terms of the site, but also it would serve to put the kibosh on the whole idea if they find out that it's not actually private -- that things they say there could affect their real lives. They'll stop writing, and stop getting any benefits out of the site.

I don't think there would be legal ramifications if you do nothing. It depends somewhat on the laws in Australia, I think, but it's not like you're a teacher or something. I think the admins of the site are bound to take down anything illegal, but not that you need to intervene based on what you read.

There must be cases where people on forums have threatened suicide, I'll see what I can find there, just a sec...

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I found this, sounds about right:

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They're wrong if they suggested that you call her. You have to protect your own interests legally and you aren't licensed or qualified.

I worked as a chatroom bouncer/mod for a very large, supportive women's community (with "corporate" and legal eagles and all) and there was no involvement allowed in suicide cases. They just needed to be sent for professional help.

I remember one case of a potential suicide (very clearly announced, and I was summoned in by another member by PM). She had a serious drinking problem and her husband was going to take the kids and leave her.

I did nothing more than TOS allowed, which was to show her caring compassion and tell her she wasn't alone with that problem, and suggested she go to AA - including giving her a link, and an Alanon link for her DH. No counsel beyond that, she promised, said thank you profusely with hugs.

An official report was made, chat logs included (again, legal protection), and and that was the last heard of that problem in chat.

http://www.webmasterworld.com/webmaster/3336348.htm

What it brings to mind for me is that you could be opening up the site to legal issues if you get involved -- for example, what if you contact the person's parents and THAT causes a quick escalation of the problem (because the student felt betrayed, like there's no place to turn, etc.) What if you try to help and the student ends up in a treatment program you recommend that turns out to be bogus and takes their money but doesn't help? etc.

From what I've seen so far I think you're more likely to be in legal trouble (or to get the site administrators/ owners in legal trouble) if you intervene than if you don't.

Also points out about the TOS -- how thorough is your site's TOS (Terms of Service)? What does it indicate?

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DP, I have not had time to mull this, as I just saw it.

Sadly, self abuse among teens seems to be on the rise. I agree with Soz and Missy that if they don't feel safe they will go somewhere else.

It will rip your soul to listen to, but I think ultimately it will help them to discuss it with their peers, and maybe some of them will help one another get better.

Adult input is likely to be shunned in my experience, and good on you for being the bloke ya be...

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It sounds to me like most of these kids WANT help but don't know how to get it or are afraid of what someone would say if they knew.

Resources are probably your best bet. Self inflicted injury is not because they like the pain. It's about control and being in control over your own body.

It's a disease and like anything else should be treated as so.

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sozobe wrote:

From what I've seen so far I think you're more likely to be in legal trouble (or to get the site administrators/ owners in legal trouble) if you intervene than if you don't.

I agree. If the site provides them with a "private" area to post then they have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" (a limited one of course).

If the site misleads user's into thinking they any sort of privacy right and then violates that privacy they open themselves to a host of probelms.

Personally, I'd shy away from having any official responsibilities on any site where that sort of thing was going on. It sounds to me like the entire "closed forum" idea for that sort of thing is just begging for trouble.

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dp, my daughter K has a history of SI. There are forums that focus on supporting kids that issue and I'm sure there are forums that focus on eating disorders.

My first post on A2K related to SI.

Deb has posted a number of links for information and support. I was an once active member of the forum mentioned in my first post which is right under Deb's list.

http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1059951#1059951

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I'm wondering to what kind of liability ya'll are opening yourselves up.

Most Internet boards, the only verifiable pieces of information you have to work with are IP address and E-mail address. If you have better means of tracking, and something dreadful were to happen, AND you knew there were reasons for concern, then, at least in the US, you might be held liable.

I certainly believe that anonymity and/or confidentiality opens folks up, and provides an opportunity to help someone. That's what doctor/patient privilege is all about. On the other hand, ya'll don't have any kind of legally protected status.

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Bella Dea wrote:

Self inflicted injury is not because they like the pain. It's about control and being in control over your own body.

My recollection is that it is more complex than that. I know T brought up a recent study about it, although I don't remember specifics. In addition to using physical pain to escape emotional pain, there are also ways that brain chemistry changes.

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DrewDad wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
Self inflicted injury is not because they like the pain. It's about control and being in control over your own body.

My recollection is that it is more complex than that. I know T brought up a recent study about it, although I don't remember specifics. In addition to using physical pain to escape emotional pain, there are also ways that brain chemistry changes.

I agree.

But I wanted to point out that these kids probably didn't really WANT to hurt themselves. They just felt like they had to.

Does that make sense?

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Sure.

When you said it's about control of their own bodies, it made me think of someone choosing to get a tatoo or piercing, rather than the compulsion that these poor kids apparently feel.

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DrewDad wrote:

Sure.

When you said it's about control of their own bodies, it made me think of someone choosing to get a tatoo or piercing, rather than the compulsion that these poor kids apparently feel.

I suppose that piercing and tattooing can be a very minor form of it.

Some people do feel compelled to get one piercing or tattoo after another.

I've heard lots of people say it's addicting.

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Re: Cutting and Purging

dadpad wrote:

What damage might informing on a kid [...........]do?

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002702----000-.html

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N.B. I only looked into this thread to find out what the title meant; however the law is the same no matter what the electronic communication except in terrorism-related activities. Those "kids" are plotting nothing of the sort, and I find this idea of "informing" on them revolting, in addition to unlawful.

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Hi DP,

If you're worried, why not get legal advice?

I doubt you're obliged to do anything...but it is scary stuff, I know.

Their being minors (if I am correct in this?) makes things harder to deal with.....

Here's a good resource to pop down for them...but doubtless you know all about it anyway.

http://www.kidshelp.com.au/home_KHL.aspx?s=6

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Don't worry dadpad, it's just the internet.

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Chai wrote:

Don't worry dadpad, it's just the internet.

It's just the internet plus federal prison (in the U.S., possibly not overseas) for up to 10 years >

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> assuming that the following condition does not apply:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002701----000-.html

Quote:

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Quote:

that's an excerpt from the above, and FYI harassment IS criminal, so legal advice wouldn't come a moment too soon as far as liability for both initial poster and site are concerned.

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harassment...

Did I miss something?

Confused

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Cutting and Purging

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