I have to get this out here

Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 06:26 pm
what . in . the world do I do .

I have rolled over and made myself such a victim in this relationship that I feel as though I am lacking a back bone in just saying to someone ' hey that doesnt feel good'

I am so fucked up in many ways I can not begin to wrap my head around this .
I have become a taker, my best friend says. And holy ****. She is right on the money.

how did I become this person?

WHY did I become this person?

I could easily say that it is all because of the mister. I could blame it on him to the end of time because it is easier to NOT take responsibility for myself, for my actions and for what I can change.
Blame it on him, seperate and voila my problems are solved correct?
Well. thats wrong. And that is....... almost odd..... yet pleasingly comfortable and ..****.. I dont know.

I dont want to live like this, yet I perpetuate it with every ******* breath I take. I want to hand out blame like food at a homeless shelter. I want to point fingers because IM NOT WRONG.. I want to do everything that I can to NOT step up and become a woman, a mother and a responsible human.
Why do I want to do all of that crap? Why am I more willing to put effort into NOT taking responsibility then I am into just doing what needs to be done.
If I live by my gut, I know what I want and it is easy to obtain. I can already support myself, pay my bills and be self sufficient. I can do this. I can make money hand over fist, that is not the issue.
The issue here is becoming an adult. The issue here is my lack of self worth. That little voice inside my head that says I cant, I cant, I wont. How in the world did I allow THAT voice to be so powerful that I lost myself in the process?
For christs sake. I was HOMELESS. I can survive any where. I have done things in my life that would make even the most well rounded person cave. And yet I still stand.
Why do I not draw from that strength to remain upright, confident and powerful?
Why do I cower?
What the **** has happened to me.

Im divorcing.
I cant do it any more. I cant LIE any more. I cant pretend any more.
I dont love him. I love what I wanted him to be and the THINGS i thought he could do. That is unfair of me. But so be it. There it is.
And saying that has brought out a wave of peace and a loss of weight on my shoulders.
But following that is a fear I have never known. I did not actually realize that I am afraid of being alone. I am afraid of being single and the one thing I keep obsessing about is money. I obsess about it to the point that I stop myself from making it. What a nasty cycle that has become.
With out someone in the house I HAVE TO support us. If I dont we cave and my child rides with me.

I have taught her some horrible things in this time.
I have taught her a lack of respect to adults, to herself and most of all to me. Now I have to stand and repair that. Now I have to stand and do alot that I dont want to do. I dont feel like I have a spine to do all of this, but I cant break down, I cant crack . I have a child that relies on me, and MYSELF to take care of.

I am getting a slam course in being an adult. And I want to stand still point the finger at my mother, at my grand mother, at my ancestors, at the black slaves in my family line.... ANYONE ELSE but myself. I want this to be someone elses responsibility. I want to hand this off to any one else who wants it. I want to dissappear in the rightousness of " I told you so" instead of standing and fighting for myself and my daughter.

I am suffocating myself. Slowly. And I am just now seeing this.

A divorce is the least of my problems but the biggest issue to tackle.
Goddess help me... Im listening.
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Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 06:40 pm
Before you do anything irrational, sit down - or better, write down what
you want to change in your life. Be realistic though! Write down the
things that you cannot change and then assess what you can do/change
yourself and what's impossible to tackle (at least right now).

Your thoughts seem to be all over the place and this is not a good time
to make any decisions, let alone life changing decisions.

You do have a child, and you do have a responsibility toward this child -
she and her welfare come first!
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Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 06:50 pm
And listening.

I get alot of what you are saying. (I think)

You have lived through tough stuff. You don't need to prove it that you can do it..
You can stand tough, but you can ask for help.

You know you can blame other people but you know it comes down to you.

You just need to be proud of yourself and your accomplishments.
And you should be. And remember to listen to people that care about you.

You might not love him, but maybe you do.
Do you need to make this decision now?

Don't make this so hard that you do crack. You have a spine, but you don't have to try and break it.
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Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 06:56 pm
Ah crap.
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Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 07:03 pm
I think that any pro would tell you not to make major life decisions while you are turmoil. Work on yourself, find peace with-in yourself, and then decide what to do about your relationship.
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Regular Poster
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 08:25 pm
let me say this...

I have not said a word to mister yet. (hence the sn )
This is just the begining of me learning how to read myself, folow my gut and begin to do for me.
I can not lay down and be a victim any longer. Changing that perspective is hard, its terrifying and I feel as though I am losing my grip on my sanity.

YET.. it is so easy.

And I knwo that in changing this behavior, the mister will be no more.
he is looking for another mother, someone to juggle all the adult issues of the house, require a minimum from him and be able to keep everything going so he does not have to move.

Im not insulting him. He is who he is. And I dont want this to be a Mister bashing thread.

but I just gotta lay that out there.
this is just the first step.

I want to, with every fiber of my being, just go home and say " Sorry Bub. Hasta"
But I know that is not realistic and I know that is unfair.

but Im not juggling these balls all by myself any more. I dont need two children one grown and one not..
I need an adult. A responsible man, somoene I can trust and someone who will juggle WITH ME.
Not for me.
Not too me
and not WATCH me ..
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Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 08:42 pm
It sounds like both of you have a lot of work to do.

Ms. Dominion-holder would recommend counselling. I'd have to agree with that recommendation.

It's likely going to be painful for both of you.

It's something you're going to have to deal with straight-up - not run away from - that doesn't work.

(why did he look so sad and depressed in the latest photos? can you see that when you look at the photos?)
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Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 08:48 pm
(((((( Regular Poster ))))))
Best wishes... you.
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Regular Poster
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 09:17 pm
Im sorry, I dont have PMs yet..
(thats SO odd to say.. )

anyway.. Laughing

I do have a therapist I see once every other week.
It was some of the things that she has said that has pushed me where I am. She is the one who taught me about the victim status and showed me how I play it over and over again with everything.

I have not really looked at any photos of him though to be able to tell you if he has been sad or not.
No doubt he is.
A bad marriage is not just one person.
lately, most contact is avoided...more so by me. but that might be more then I need to say.

Getting him into therapy is a job Im not sure I should have to do.
I have tried... and tried... and tried.
As far as asking our doc to 'just write him a script. I will powder it into his food"

There is abig part of me that does not want this mother role that I have taken and I have created in this relationship. And when I look at his family structure.. that is what they did.. that is how they were and good god I hate it.

if you want to know what a man is like, Look at his father.. correct?
Same for a woman. if you want to know generally how she will be as an adult, look at her mother.

Does it speak volumes when I say I hated his father? I despised that man more then anything . Abusive , controlling , dominating, weak, lazy......

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Regular Poster
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 09:18 pm

I earned a classic Bill hug.

Thank you Smile
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Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 09:31 pm
I agree with ehBeth. (I'm doing that a lot lately!)

Your mind is racing. You're all over the place right now. This IS NOT the time to be making life-changing decisions...especially decisions that, frankly, will have an even bigger impact on your daughter than on you. This IS the time to talk to a professional. To someone who can help you direct those racing thoughts along a productive pathway.

You might think you know what Mister wants, but then again, you may be wrong. No matter how long you have lived with someone, you never really know what is going on in their head. He very well may already "know" on some level that things are not going to continue the way they have been. It wouldn't surprise me. The question is...where does he want them to go? A counselor can help him think through this.

Divorcing may be inevitable, or it may not. The bottom line is, things must change. It is up to THE TWO OF YOU to decide what will be the best course of action for your family. You owe your daughter that much...at least. Remember, she is powerless in all of this. You are determining her life here. It is up to you to be real adults, which may very well mean putting her needs before your own.

I know this isn't easy. Change never is.

Funny, but we have this stupid idea that marrying is "settling down"...that our relationship will always be the same. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Long-term marriages often undergo sea changes. Perhaps that's what is coming for you.

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Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 09:40 pm
Your responsibility in the relationship (by my personal measurement tool) is to be honest with him. To tell him where you have gone emotionally, not just physically. He's likely guessing, trying to figure things out. Tell him.

If he is able to follow you in terms of emotional growth, then that's great.

You're his wife, not his boss or mother. You need a partner. If he can be that partner - if he can summon up the courage to go there with you - so much the better. S'gonna be hard on him if he tries, s'gonna be hard on him if he doesn't.


Your other responsibility is to your child. I think it's as important as your responsibility to the relationship. Not more or less important - as important.

Changes are coming to both of her parents. That is going to have an enormous impact on her - make the changes good for all of you.


mrs. hamburger's mother always said that the marriage should come before the children. I go back and forth on whether I think that's right, but I do think that it's really important to be a good co-parent, not simply a good parent.

Teaching children about relationships starts with being a good role model in your role as one of two parents. That teaching can be about beginning, maintaining, changing relationships - it all counts.


ha - just saw Eva - and it looks like I'm following her change trail.

(try and look at the man in those photos sometime - look at him as a stranger - you're good with the lens - you caught something that was noticeable to a stranger)
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Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 09:51 pm
Yes, and if he appears sad or depressed, I can understand why.

It could be that he is painfully aware that things are coming to a head, and he doesn't know what to do. His family background, as you've described it, wouldn't have taught him how to fix this. Anyone in that situation would be sad and depressed.

But everyone is NOT doomed to repeat the hopeless patterns of their parents. Some instinctively go in the opposite direction, some figure out how on their own, and some have to learn how. (That's where counseling comes in.)

I think the two of you need to have some very serious talks. And I recommend you do that with a qualified counselor present, to make sure it stays on track.

(waves to ehBeth! Cool )
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Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 09:56 pm
Regular Poster wrote:

I earned a classic Bill hug.

Thank you Smile
You're quite welcome.
Though I imagine our mutual friend will by to warn you about my real intentions any minute now... Razz
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Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 04:04 am
As a suggestion, you could try the following exercise :

- form a picture in your mind of where you would like to be in 25 years time - you need to know where you're going and what you want. (btw, the clearer, more real the picture the better)

- now imagine that you are the other person in the first picture (your perfect other half)...this is 25 years down the track - and look at yourself through his eyes - who does he see, what does he feel towards her, what does he like about her, what sort of chemistry does he feel, etc.

- now imagine that you are a third party, an observer (25 years in the future), looking at you and your other half. Imagine what this observer sees as he/she watches you two interacting. Does he/she see the chemistry or is there friction...what about guestures of love, joy, smiles, laughs

How do all these pictures fit together? Are they all moving in the same direction? Can each of these pictures be used to refine where you are going?

From a personal point of view, it's desirable to keep both the goal, and the process of getting to the goal in mind (most people forget about the goal, or don't put any thought into it - if you don't have a clear picture, you don't have a clear direction, which weakens your decision making ability as well as your personal growth)

On another track, work on yourself first - what your values are, what your needs are (categories include emotional, financial, intimacy, interpersonal, recognition/attention, intellectual, spiritual etc)...if you don't look after yourself, you can't look after others (because something inside you will always be seeking to have your needs met, and influencing everything you do).

And on another track again, your mind is a goal seeking mind - if you tell yourself "I'm not good enough" it will seek to make you good enough, if you tell yourself "I'm clumsly" you'll find yourself staying clumsy, if you say "I can't do it" it will find ways for you to not be able to do it...in other words, be careful what you say to yourself. Belief in your ability is almost always a self fulfilling prophecy

ie positive beliefs = positive self fulfilling prophecy, negative beliefs = negative self fulfilling prophecy

Hope it helps in some way Smile
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Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 04:14 am
One step at a time.

One thing you should know is that people don't come readily assembled. Not you, not your husband, no one (well, maybe Noddy).

God knows I was a lousy wife/girlfriend to start. But RP saw something in me. I look back at that time and I was selfish, flighty, ready to fight for no good reason, lazy, you name it. Yep.

And we didn't mesh well. It took a while for us to mesh. If you are miserable, you need not stay in a relationship, of course, but you should know that sometimes people just need to mature. As you are seeing in yourself, and as you are seeing in him. And the question is whether the maturation process goes on together, or separately.

With a child, surely, even if you do not stay wed, the maturation process is still somewhat together. You won't 100% walk away because your child has to have a father. Even if you don't want to be around him, you will, at least a little.

So I echo the folks who say that counseling is a good idea. I never think it's a bad idea and if you decide to end the relationship, then you do and so be it. Or maybe you find that you won't. But it will help you a lot to be able to unburden yourself to an objective professional.

Hang in there.
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Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 07:36 am
Eva wrote:

I think the two of you need to have some very serious talks. And I recommend you do that with a qualified counselor present, to make sure it stays on track.

I agree, but you can't make him join you. You CAN let him know that you're ready to throw in the towel on your marriage. You CAN let him know that you aren't happy with yourself, with him, with the relationship, with your life and offer to work with him to turn things around.

He will join you or not. If he does then the joint therapy will work, work somewhat, or not work at all.

You've taken some time recently to reflect on your life, both privately and with the help of a professional. You've come to a decision. I'd suggest two things before making that decision final. Let him know precisely how you feel and give him an opportunity to join you in couples therapy to see if things can be improved.

I don't at all advocate staying in a bad relationship for the sake of the child. But I do advocate leaving such a relationship with a clear understanding of what lies ahead. Single parenting is very, very difficult. Make sure you aren't jumping from the pan to the fire.
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Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 07:52 am
Re: I have to get this out here
Regular Poster wrote:
my child rides with me.

I had to pop back in as this ^^^ has been on my mind since last night.

That may in fact be your preference but it isn't your decision to make. Especially should this resolve in divorce. Other people are going to be involved in determining the best plan for your child.
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Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 07:57 am
Yes, I had the same thought... regular poster says she's been trying to get her husband into therapy, but then also says she hasn't said anything to him about divorce. That certainly ups the ante and I think makes it more likely that he would say yes to therapy -- as in, if he's said no so far, that doesn't mean he'll say no if the alternative is divorce.

I very much agree with advice to just be honest and straightforward about it. Not an ultimatum per se, not throwing down the gauntlet, just something like, "We are having such a hard time and I think we need to get some help to solve it. Right now I don't feel like I can stay in this marriage. But I don't want to walk away until I have tried my hardest to make things work, and that includes going to therapy with you."

This is all part of taking responsibility, IMO, as per your first post.
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Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 08:02 am
(My "same thought" referred to JPB, but ehBeth makes an excellent point, too.)
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