Oil Vs. Alternative Energy

Okie, I am falling over your straw men. I never claimed that not exploring, or reducing the supply, will lower prices, etc.

What I am saying is that drilling offshore in the critical areas is probably not worth it. At best, the savings will be peanuts, and the coasts will be endangered. But the equation would be quite different were the government doing the drilling, etc.

The coasts are not in danger. Technology works. It won't be peanuts. I agree it will not solve the energy crisis, but it would make it better at the margins. Avatar had a very good post in regard to pricing, as affected at the margins. We need to keep all of our options open, including drilling in any feasible or potential area within our own country.

In regard to the government doing the drilling, thats a new twist, not a good idea at all. If the government was producing oil, it would already be $10 bucks a gallon for gasoline. That would be stupid, stupid, stupid. And environmental risk would be even greater than it is now.

I go back to the early 70s. A bit further, truth to tell. Now, oil produced in the US is not subject OPEC embargo, no Venezuelan politics. Perhaps my memory is longer that it should be.

Advocate, be serious.

Oil companies have assets currently being used in Gulf Coast drilling operations. Some of these could be repurposed/transported to Atlantic and Pacific coast fields if drilling there wasn't banned. (Of course, more would end up being produced; just saying that there's equipment currently in use in the Gulf that would be more productively used in Atlantic/Pacific fields if they were available.)

Advocate spouts stupidity, twisted logic, and Democrat obfuscation of the issue. All of it is nothing more than partisan crap, not founded upon solid reasoning. Alot of this is basically Democrat talking points aimed at sidetracking the debate from the truly important points and issues facing the country today. I have been watching Dems on energy for a few decades, and they are an empty suit, period, to the point of almost being traitorous. Just my opinion. They are the problem, but when the problems present themselves in more serious form, they all in unison make up some false arguments to divert the blame and attention away from them.

They dedicate their time criticizing, blaming, and scapegoating the very people that are the producers in this country. They are obstructionists to the producers, but when short supplies cause higher prices, they blame the producers. It is so pathetic, it makes me sick. They are either stupid or worse, and I don't know which.

When I say Democrats, I am talking about many or most of the Dems, and more specifically, the leadership, which is given marching orders by the really whacked out libs.

As someone somewhat experienced in oil exploration, most of the above news clips are uninformed garbage. However, the specter of an intractable Congress, so dead set against drilling is something I find inexcusable. This issue could be the downfall of Obama as a viable candidate, and would mean a continuation of the existing administration (Senior version). Obama does not seem to beexerting any leadership on these matters. Hes taking a "safe" stance as if he expects to lose and doesnt wanna F**k up his return to the Senate.
Im sorry to say that hes on the wrong side of this issue.


NOONE is denying that altternative energy is needed and soon. However,there are two conflicting Congressional initiatives that act independently and will collapse to the centyer of the entire issue


1WE DO NEED TO DRILL --To do so, means that we must open new leaseholds. Not to drill is economic suicide.

2. WE DO NEED ALTERNATIVE ENERGY-Congress seems to be reluctant to "even the playing field" with equivalent incesntives and rebates for the long term. (Certain rebates and credits go off in September 2008)

Do you mean Congress is in favour of "economic suicide".

I'm inclined to doubt it fm. I think you're rowing your boat ashore again.

Okie, you do a lot of name-calling, and say that the Dems are big liars. Please read the following.

ETHICS -- BACHMANN LIES: CLAIMS DEMOCRATS WON'T 'PASS THE TAX CREDIT FOR SOLAR AND WIND': During an interview with Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) yesterday, right-wing radio host Laura Ingraham asserted that Congressional Democrats "are acting as the ultimate obstructionists" on energy policy. Bachmann agreed, saying that "this is mission accomplished for them" because they don't want to "increase American energy resources." Declaring that the Congressional Democrats are "so strange," Bachmann then claimed that they wouldn't "pass the tax credit for solar and wind," despite being "the big solar/wind people." But this claim is flatly false. On Wednesday, "for the fourth time this summer," Senate conservatives blocked action on legislation that would provide "tax credits to an array of renewable energy entrepreneurs." The blocked legislation would have extended "some $18 billion worth of renewable energy tax credits." In fact, when the House passed the Renewable Energy and Job Creation Act of 2008 in May, Bachmann voted against it, along with the majority of House Republicans. The bill was then filibustered by Senate Republicans in June. What's truly "so strange" is that Bachmann can act as an ex post facto advocate for legislation she actively opposed.
-- americanprogressaction.org


Farmerman, you give us some big strawmen. The Dems are not against drilling. They just want it to take place on the millions of undrilled acres to which the oil companies have drilling rights. Again, drilling off the east coast and FL will not produce for years, and then will not produce that much. Gas prices will be basically unaffected by such drilling, which would endanger precious coasts.

Advocate, kif youd take your damn partisan earflaps off you could make sense of all this. The DEMS are mostly intracrable about new leases and theres a bann on drilling the OCS and ICS. WHy dont they break the damn deadlock?? How come nothing's moving? Drilling on existing leaseholds is kinda useless, we already know where the oil is on these. Its basin development and production time. OCS is NEW LEASEHOLDS , as is outer GULF, Triassic basin, SOuthern ANADARKO, new CAlif fields, ANWAR, Upper Alaskan Arctic Shelf, and several other areas.


This is being run as a tit for tat thing that will need to be resolved soon because all the credits and incentives on alternative energy run out end of 2008 and these incentives need to be on line in order that THE PLAYING FIELD IS LEVEL. I believe that its a big ploy to mete out a late agreement after the elections so that noone benefits (CONGRESS< IN TOTO IS POPULATED BY STRUTTING ASSHOLES OF BOTH PARTIES).




IN this case Jimmy CArter was shown to be so prescient. He will turn out to be the Edison of energy programs.


Im for ebverything , nuclear, clean cola, oil, alternative diesel, shale "oil", buiofuels, wind, solar, etc etc. However, while we sit on our partisan asses, Rome runs out of fuel. Go Ahead, make yourself feel morally superior and technically advanced. You should write letters to newspapers and congress (BOTH SIDES) and complain about how


AFter 35 years of talk, we have no energy policy from either side

Deregulation was mostly a Clinton effect. Why did all the refineries in Kern County and Merin and WIlmington Del and the Delaware disappear?

Why are we no closer to either drilling more oil or developing alternatives via incentives?

If you can comfortably remain partisan as this is going on then your head doesnt see sunlight very often.

If everything you know about oil drilling is from GOOGLE, then you should look up some papers on basin analysis from the AMerican Association of PEtroleum Geologists (AAPG). Ive been a member since grad school, how bout you?

Give Obama a Dem congress and you will see some real progress in solving our energy problems. Bush and his rubberstamp congress did nothing for 7.5 years.

We should immediately mandate higher-than-planned mileage on new cars. Each mile-per-gallon added would be tantamount to a decent oilfield discovery. Think what could be done with just this.

aLL GOOD, BUT DRILLING FOR MORE OIL and, BEING ABLE TO REFINE IT WOULD BE AN EVEN BIGGER factor. That, coupled with all kinds of alt energy reserach and development would transit us into the future and give enormous opportunities to the economy.
Worldwide, this would be a boon to humanity. HOWEVER, do you see anyone in our govt who hgas offered leadership? (other than Jimmy CArter?)



YES JIMMY CARTER, a proponent of nuclear power, alternative energy, and coupled with a stable production of fossil fuel, with agradual phase out of fossils as the others come on line. (We dont need fossil to make styrene replacements either)

fm wrote-



He means you have your head up your arse.

Don't worry though. fm says that about everybody who doesn't agree with him.

I wonder how those oil companies do it. The rest of the nation is getting killed, and the former have soaring profits. FM, do you know?


Big Oil's biggest quarter ever: $51.5B in all By JOHN PORRETTO, APposted: 3 HOURS 15 MINUTES AG HOUSTON -Oil giants Chevron Corp. and Total SA wrapped up a string of gargantuan, record-breaking earnings reports Friday, a stretch in which six of the major international oil companies topped $50 billion in combined profit for the first time.
While the profits of unparalleled size have brought withering criticism from Washington and disgust from consumers across the country, very few were surprised. Crude prices during the second quarter were nearly double what they were a year ago.
Chevron said Friday its second-quarter profit rose 11 percent to a record $5.98 billion.
Revenue rose significantly to $82.9 billion from $56.1 billion a year ago.
But results for the second-largest U.S. oil company missed Wall Street forecasts and shares fell.
Like its competitors, Chevron made the bulk of its money at its exploration and production arm, also known as the upstream, where income nearly doubled from a year ago to $7.25 billion.
Chevron said the average sales price for crude and natural gas liquids was $109 a barrel in the quarter, up from $57 a barrel in the year-earlier period.
In addition to Chevron, soaring commodity prices led to record quarters for Exxon Mobil Corp., ConocoPhillips , BP PLC and Royal Dutch Shell PLC. Exxon Mobil stood apart even from this crowd, logging the largest ever quarterly operating profit for a U.S. company. Barring companies that made huge profits on one-time gains like bankruptcy settlements and spin-offs, Exxon Mobil holds the top 10 records for biggest U.S. quarterly earnings.
French energy company Total SA said Friday its profit climbed 38.7 percent in the second quarter to $7.38 billion. Quarterly sales rose 23 percent to $75.25 billion.
Altogether, the profits of the six companies jumped more than 40 percent in the second quarter to $51.5 billion, the first time big Western oil companies have ever reached that level.
Total's earnings were at the top end of analysts' expectations.
Unlike some other oil majors, Total reported production growth of 1.3 percent in the second quarter.
Also Friday, Norway's state-controlled StatoilHydro ASA reported a 37 percent rise in second-quarter net profits to $3.7 billion.
At Chevron, the company division that refines and sells gasoline actually swung to a loss of $734 million in the quarter after earning $1.3 billion a year ago. The culprit: those same crude prices that lifted upstream earnings.
Like its peers, Chevron doesn't produce enough oil on its own to feed its refineries, forcing it to buy some on the open market. And it wasn't able to raise the price of gasoline and other products fast enough to recover its own rising costs for oil.
Chevron also said that planned downtime at some refineries contributed to the loss.
"The higher cost of crude oil used in the refining process was not fully recovered in the price of gasoline and other refined products," said Chairman and CEO Dave O'Reilly. "As a result, our downstream operations incurred a loss in the second quarter, with most of the loss taking place in the United States."
Chevron said overall production in the quarter fell about 3 percent from a year ago, hurt in part by production-sharing contracts. However, on a conference call with analysts Friday, company officials said project startups will increase production in the second half of 2008 and the company should meet or exceed its full-year volume target.
Chevron shares slipped 71 cents in afternoon trading to $83.85. They've traded in a range of $76.40 to $104.63 in the past year.
Total shares fell 1.2 percent

I sold my energy funds in Aperil, Im just yancy whenever high prices breed more exploration and refining plans. Barrons predicted an oil bubble two months ago.

Whats yer point ?.
Stocks trade on tomorrows promises, not todays earnings.

Ya know, I just read McG's title for this thread. "OIL V ALTERNATIVE ENERGY". He misses the whole goal and buys into the polarized "energy posture" It should be "OIL AND ALTERNATIVE ENERGY", Its not either , or. its Both.


ELECT ME AND ILL HAVE THIS ENERGY THING SOLVED WITH A TEAM MADE UP OF JUST A2K MEMBERS.

You will be like a mother cat keeping up with 12 kittens.

fm wrote-



There could be some wisdom in that looking at it a certain way but looking at it the way I expect fm is looking at it it's stupid. The energy thing cannot be solved his way.

Advocate- those profits of the fat-cats you have extemporised about don't disappear. They go round and filter down. You probably derive some benefit from them yourself.

Then they are collected up again in molecular amounts and sent round again.

I don't know which routes work best. It's all a mystery except for one thing: it's not a mystery why some people think they have to understand mysteries and go on to explain them.

+"AND A LOT MORE NUKES".