Will Obama get ALL American troops out in sixteen months?

mysteryman wrote:

It takes an average of 10 men to support one combat soldier, why hasnt Obama mentioned them?
Is he planning on leaving them in Iraq?

I doubt Obama knows as much about the US military as you and I combined... he is the wrong man for the job.

H2O_MAN wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

It takes an average of 10 men to support one combat soldier, why hasnt Obama mentioned them?
Is he planning on leaving them in Iraq?

I doubt Obama knows as much about the US military as you and I combined... he is the wrong man for the job.

++

You guys are a hopeless case of imagined problems; the president can call on all the experts who has more knowledge than the both of you put together - or the ten of you put together. Get over it; you're just being stupid.

H2O_MAN wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

It takes an average of 10 men to support one combat soldier, why hasnt Obama mentioned them?
Is he planning on leaving them in Iraq?

I doubt Obama knows as much about the US military as you and I combined... he is the wrong man for the job.

...you're just being stupid.

H2O_MAN wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

It takes an average of 10 men to support one combat soldier, why hasnt Obama mentioned them?
Is he planning on leaving them in Iraq?

I doubt Obama knows as much about the US military as you and I combined... he is the wrong man for the job.

++

You guys are a hopeless case of imagined problems; the president can call on all the experts who has more knowledge than the both of you put together - or the ten of you put together. Get over it; you're just being stupid.

cicerone imposter wrote:

H2O_MAN wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

It takes an average of 10 men to support one combat soldier, why hasnt Obama mentioned them?
Is he planning on leaving them in Iraq?

I doubt Obama knows as much about the US military as you and I combined... he is the wrong man for the job.

...you're just being stupid.

Obama is the stupid one for promising voters that he would bring the troops home.
He could delegate the logistics to people smarter than himself, but I don't think he would do that.
He is just pandering for votes without a clue of what is involved. Obama is just being stupid.

Obama is the stupid one for promising voters that he would bring the troops home.
He could delegate the logistics to people smarter than himself, but I don't think he would do that.
He is just pandering for votes without a clue of what is involved. Obama is just being stupid.

Remember that is the same electorate that gave Bush a second term.

H2O_MAN wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

H2O_MAN wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

It takes an average of 10 men to support one combat soldier, why hasnt Obama mentioned them?
Is he planning on leaving them in Iraq?

I doubt Obama knows as much about the US military as you and I combined... he is the wrong man for the job.

...you're just being stupid.

Obama is the stupid one for promising voters that he would bring the troops home.
He could delegate the logistics to people smarter than himself, but I don't think he would do that.
He is just pandering for votes without a clue of what is involved. Obama is just being stupid.

I'm not even sure why guys are discussion this issue when you're not even up to date with Obama's position on Iraq.

So he gets all the COMBAT troops out, big deal.

What about all the support troops?
Those are the cooks, clerks, medical troops, armorers, mechanics, computer techs,dentists, supply personnel, and the thousands of other noncombat troops

It takes an average of 10 men to support one combat soldier, why hasnt Obama mentioned them?
Is he planning on leaving them in Iraq?

mysteryman wrote:

So he gets all the COMBAT troops out, big deal.

What about all the support troops?
Those are the cooks, clerks, medical troops, armorers, mechanics, computer techs,dentists, supply personnel, and the thousands of other noncombat troops

It takes an average of 10 men to support one combat soldier, why hasnt Obama mentioned them?
Is he planning on leaving them in Iraq?

I'm not sure what the advantage might be to keeping non-combat troops in Iraq after all of the combat troops have cleared out. There certainly isn't much need for mailmen once most of the troops have left. In any event, a lot of those support troops are already accounted for in a brigade's TOE or at the division or corps level, so they'll leave along with the rest of the combat troops. The only ones left behind (aside from the troops guarding the American proconsulate ... er, embassy) will be advisors who will train Iraqi military and security personnel.

Wait a minute. I'm getting a strange sense of déjà vu.

joefromchicago wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

So he gets all the COMBAT troops out, big deal.

What about all the support troops?
Those are the cooks, clerks, medical troops, armorers, mechanics, computer techs,dentists, supply personnel, and the thousands of other noncombat troops

It takes an average of 10 men to support one combat soldier, why hasnt Obama mentioned them?
Is he planning on leaving them in Iraq?

I'm not sure what the advantage might be to keeping non-combat troops in Iraq after all of the combat troops have cleared out. There certainly isn't much need for mailmen once most of the troops have left. In any event, a lot of those support troops are already accounted for in a brigade's TOE or at the division or corps level, so they'll leave along with the rest of the combat troops. The only ones left behind (aside from the troops guarding the American proconsulate ... er, embassy) will be advisors who will train Iraqi military and security personnel.

Wait a minute. I'm getting a strange sense of déjà vu.

I know they are accounted for in a brigade TOE, but Obama was quite specific that he would get all COMBAt troops out.
He specified combat troops, so is he going to leave some noncombat troops in Iraq?

I am only going by what his website says.
If his position has changed, his website doesnt show it.

I know they are accounted for in a brigade TOE, but Obama was quite specific that he would get all COMBAt troops out.
He specified combat troops, so is he going to leave some noncombat troops in Iraq?

I am only going by what his website says.
If his position has changed, his website doesnt show it.

mysteryman wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

So he gets all the COMBAT troops out, big deal.

What about all the support troops?
Those are the cooks, clerks, medical troops, armorers, mechanics, computer techs,dentists, supply personnel, and the thousands of other noncombat troops

It takes an average of 10 men to support one combat soldier, why hasnt Obama mentioned them?
Is he planning on leaving them in Iraq?

I'm not sure what the advantage might be to keeping non-combat troops in Iraq after all of the combat troops have cleared out. There certainly isn't much need for mailmen once most of the troops have left. In any event, a lot of those support troops are already accounted for in a brigade's TOE or at the division or corps level, so they'll leave along with the rest of the combat troops. The only ones left behind (aside from the troops guarding the American proconsulate ... er, embassy) will be advisors who will train Iraqi military and security personnel.

Wait a minute. I'm getting a strange sense of déjà vu.

I know they are accounted for in a brigade TOE, but Obama was quite specific that he would get all COMBAt troops out.
He specified combat troops, so is he going to leave some noncombat troops in Iraq?

I am only going by what his website says.
If his position has changed, his website doesnt show it.

I'm quite sure that some will remain, in either a purely defensive or advisory position.

Cycloptichorn

I know they are accounted for in a brigade TOE, but Obama was quite specific that he would get all COMBAt troops out.
He specified combat troops, so is he going to leave some noncombat troops in Iraq?

I am only going by what his website says.

If his position has changed, his website doesnt show it.

mysteryman wrote:

I know they are accounted for in a brigade TOE, but Obama was quite specific that he would get all COMBAt troops out.
He specified combat troops, so is he going to leave some noncombat troops in Iraq?

I am only going by what his website says.

No, actually you're not. Here's what you quoted from Obama's website:

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two [b]combat brigades[/b] each month, and have all of our [b]combat brigades[/b] out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

So Obama doesn't say "combat troops," he says "combat brigades." And since the support troops are, as you admit, covered by the brigade TOEs, it's clear that when Obama says that he will remove the combat brigades from Iraq he's also including the support personnel that are attached to those brigades.

mysteryman wrote:

If his position has changed, his website doesnt show it.

Obama's position hasn't changed. It's just your mischaracterization of his position that has.

The best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq's leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops. Not in six months or one year _ now," the Illinois senator says.

The first thing we have to do is end this war. And the right person to end it is someone who had the judgment to oppose it from the beginning. There is no military solution in Iraq, and there never was. I will begin to remove our troops from Iraq immediately. I will remove one or two brigades a month, and get all of our combat troops out of Iraq within 16 months. The only troops I will keep in Iraq will perform the limited missions of protecting our diplomats and carrying out targeted strikes on al Qaeda. And I will launch the diplomatic and humanitarian initiatives that are so badly needed. Let there be no doubt: I will end this war

But a review of Obama's record during his 26 months in Congress reveals that he has taken a more nuanced and cautious position on the war than the full-bore opposition.

Campaigning for the Illinois Senate seat in 2003 and 2004, Obama scolded Bush for invading Iraq and vowed he would "unequivocally" vote against an additional $87 billion to pay for it. Yet since taking office in January 2005, he has voted for four separate war appropriations, totaling more than $300 billion.

Last June, Obama voted no to Senator John F. Kerry's proposal to remove most combat troops from Iraq by July 2007, warning that an "arbitrary deadline" could "compound" the Bush administration's mistake. And last week, he voted for a Republican-sponsored resolution that stated the Senate would not cut off funding for troops in Iraq.

mysteryman wrote:

I know they are accounted for in a brigade TOE, but Obama was quite specific that he would get all COMBAt troops out.
He specified combat troops, so is he going to leave some noncombat troops in Iraq?

I am only going by what his website says.
If his position has changed, his website doesnt show it.

the original statement is not accurate, BCT's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_Combat_Team
carry very few support people on their TOE. On the last deployment my wife's SBCT (Striker Brigade) had less than a thousand out of four thousand that could by any stretch of the imagination be called support. However it takes on average a one to two ratio, for every combat soldier there are two support soldiers in theater. Our Brigade had three thousand combat soldiers and less than one thousand support soldiers.....five thousand were in theater supporting the brigade but not on the brigade books. It is not that simple, as support soldiers often support a lot of different brigades, but the ratio is true and the numbers that I give fairly represent the situation.

Nice try, but I havent mischaracterized anything.

Lets look at his own words...
...
So, his own words have been "COMBAT TROOPS", and not ALL troops.

hawkeye10 wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

I know they are accounted for in a brigade TOE, but Obama was quite specific that he would get all COMBAt troops out.
He specified combat troops, so is he going to leave some noncombat troops in Iraq?

I am only going by what his website says.
If his position has changed, his website doesnt show it.

the original statement is not accurate, BCT's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_Combat_Team
carry very few support people on their TOE. On the last deployment my wife's SBCT (Striker Brigade) had less than a thousand out of four thousand that could by any stretch of the imagination be called support. However it takes on average a one to two ratio, for every combat soldier there are two support soldiers in theater. Our Brigade had three thousand combat soldiers and less than one thousand support soldiers.....five thousand were in theater supporting the brigade but not on the brigade books. It is not that simple, as support soldiers often support a lot of different brigades, but the ratio is true and the numbers that I give fairly represent the situation.

Well, as I pointed out before:

In any event, a lot of those support troops are already accounted for in a brigade's TOE [b]or at the division or corps level[/b]...

It may be that the 1301st Computer Technicians Battalion (motto: "We Do Our Bits!") is attached to the corps rather than to a particular brigade, but it's just silly to think that it or the 666th Mail Sorters Battalion (motto: "From the Depths of Hell We Stab at Thee -- With a Letter Opener!") will stick around in Iraq while the rest of the troops depart. I'm not sure what mysteryman could possibly be thinking -- maybe he thinks Obama has some kind of secret plan to occupy Baghdad with dental assistants and laundry workers -- but whatever it is it's just plain stupid.

Multi-National Force - Iraq Major Units
Saturday, 28 June 2008
Iraq is divided into six major areas of responsibility maintained by forces from 24 countries. Below are the units that cover these areas. When available a link has been provided to the unit's homepage on the Internet.

Multi-National Security Transition Command - Iraq
MNSTC-I, commonly called "min-sticky", is responsible for organizing, training, equipping and mentoring Iraqi Security Forces throughout the country.

Gulf Region Division, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
The Gulf Region Division is responsible for helping the Iraqi government rebuild the country's infrastructure.

Multi-National Corps - Iraq
This is the Tactical Unit responsible for command and control of Operations in Iraq. Currently MNC-I is headquartered by the U.S. 3rd Army Corps forward deployed to Camp Victory, Baghdad. The following units report to MNC-Iraq:

Multi-National Division - Baghdad
MND-Baghdad is also known as Task Force Baghdad. Its major area of responsibility is the city of Baghdad. MND-Baghdad is headquartered by the 4th Infantry Division from Fort Hood, Texas.
Multi-National Division - North
MND-North is also known as Task Force Iron. Responsible for an area including the cities of Balad, Kirkuk, Tikrit, Mosul, and Samarra, MND-N is headquartered by the U.S. Army's 1st Armored Division out of Wiesbaden, Germany.
Multi-National Force - West
MNF-W is headquartered by the U.S. II Marine Expeditionary Force. Their area of operations include the cities of Ar Ramadi and Fallujah.
Multi-National Division - Center
Multi-National Division - Center, also known as Task Force Mountain, assists Iraqi Security Forces with security and stability missions in the area south of Baghdad ranging from Najaf to Wasit provinces. MND-Center is headquartered by the 10th Mountain Division (Light) from Fort Drum, New York.
Multi-National Division - Center South
MND-CS covers an area that includes the cities of Diwaniyah, Afak, Al Hamzah. The division is headquartered by the Polish Military.
Multi-National Division - South East
MND-SE operates in the southern most part of Iraq, including the cities of Basrah, An Nasiriyah, Al Amarah. The division is headquartered by elements of the British and Australian militaries.
Multi-National Division - North East
MND-NE
Logistical Support Area Anaconda
LSA Anaconda is currently run by the U.S. 13th Sustainment Command (Expeditionary). 13 SC(E) is responsible for providing logistics support throughout the theater.