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Will Obama get ALL American troops out in sixteen months?

Forums: Politics, Iraq, Barack Obama, Defense Policy
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kickycan
 
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 03:38 pm
Assuming Obama becomes Prez, do you believe Obama will keep this campaign promise?
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 03:57 pm
That depends on how he interprets his promise.

This is from his website...
Quote:
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.


He has specified COMBAT troops, so he has left himself a lot of wiggle room.
For every combat soldier, there are at least 10 that are support troops.
There are cooks, clerks, doctors, dentists, mailmen, armorers, mechanics, intelligence troops, and many other jobs that are not combat related.
Is he including those people in his plan, or will he say that he only promised COMBAT troops will be removed.

And, in his own plan he says that he would be willing to keep troops in Iraq "to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda".
What does that mean?

Also, will he keep troops in Iraq to act as "advisors" to the Iraqi military, like we did in Vietnam?
Will they be allowed to carry weapons and accompany Iraqi troops into the field?
And if they are, will they be allowed to fight back if fired upon?
That would make them combat troops.

So, did he mean only "combat" troops, or did he mean ALL trooops?
And if he doesnt remove ALL troops, will he then say that he kept his promise by removing only the combat troops?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 04:00 pm
The latest news reports make it seem like the Iraqis would be fine with that.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 04:01 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
The latest news reports make it seem like the Iraqis would be fine with that.


So then its OK for Obama to parse words and claim he didnt mean "support" troops when he mentioned troops.
I thought the left was opposed to that type of parsing words?
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 04:04 pm
He said he will. He won't. Change is a major part of his campaign, and this will be called change. Definately not a flip flop. We said we wanted change, and he is giving it to us.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 04:43 pm
I mean fine with America getting the hell out.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 05:11 pm
Flip flop, flip flop come and suck my lolly pop. When I wonder will the real Obama show up , after the election?? The reverand Wright was correct his is nothing more than a politician who will say anything to garner a vote.
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 05:27 pm
Quote:
The U.S. military had 20 combat brigades in Iraq at its peak in 2007, with troop levels around 160,000-170,000. Numbers will fall to about 140,000 once the final "surge" brigade departs.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0171019220080701

a brigade averages 4,000, so at the high point we had 4kx20=80k combat troops. we also had about 200k civilians on the payroll, both foreigners and Iraqi's. So we had 170k + 200K people=370k people in the fight, and only 80K were combat troops. Ya, Obama can remove all of the combat troops and still leave a few hundred thousand advisers, support troops and contractors to maintain the effort and still "keep" his promise.
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 05:56 pm
Either he moves all he troops out or none. He cant leave noncombat troops there undefended. The terroists will eat them alive. I don't think he can move them which is why I have been suspicious of him from the start.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 06:19 pm
Re: Will Obama get ALL American troops out in sixteen months
kickycan wrote:
Assuming Obama becomes Prez, do you believe Obama will keep this campaign promise?


He may wake up in the Oval Office and quickly learn that the Presidency is not like the movies.

Since he has no military experience, he must rely, I believe, on advisors and books. I do not see how any promise regarding the military can be based on a real depth of understanding?

I believe he can promise nothing definitively, since he needs to get his domestic agenda approved in Congress, and that may just be stymied by more conservative Democrats.

He might be in the Presidency when combat operations cease in Iraq, but the rest of his Presidency could be stuck in the mud, so to speak, for all his visions of "change."

But, I would wish him the best, since I do believe his heart is in the right place. He and a percentage of his constituency may just be too idealistic for the realities of an international economy and a service economy that seems to be in the process of being outsourced (the factories left awhile ago).

I would guess that he would try to help those on the bottom of the economic ladder. Others may just feel that not much happened during his term of office that helped them personally? And, socialized medicince may turn out to be less than what anyone hoped for, if that comes to fruition?

If we are all in a charitable mood, for those less fortunates that he might do the most for, then his term would be a success. We can all enjoy the feeling of caring.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 07:40 pm
mysteryman wrote:
He has specified COMBAT troops, so he has left himself a lot of wiggle room.
For every combat soldier, there are at least 10 that are support troops.
There are cooks, clerks, doctors, dentists, mailmen, armorers, mechanics, intelligence troops, and many other jobs that are not combat related.
Is he including those people in his plan, or will he say that he only promised COMBAT troops will be removed.

I'm not sure what the advantage might be to keeping non-combat troops in Iraq after all of the combat troops have cleared out. There certainly isn't much need for mailmen once most of the troops have left. In any event, a lot of those support troops are already accounted for in a brigade's TOE or at the division or corps level, so they'll leave along with the rest of the combat troops. The only ones left behind (aside from the troops guarding the American proconsulate ... er, embassy) will be advisors who will train Iraqi military and security personnel.
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 07:56 pm
joefromchicago wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
He has specified COMBAT troops, so he has left himself a lot of wiggle room.
For every combat soldier, there are at least 10 that are support troops.
There are cooks, clerks, doctors, dentists, mailmen, armorers, mechanics, intelligence troops, and many other jobs that are not combat related.
Is he including those people in his plan, or will he say that he only promised COMBAT troops will be removed.

I'm not sure what the advantage might be to keeping non-combat troops in Iraq after all of the combat troops have cleared out. There certainly isn't much need for mailmen once most of the troops have left. In any event, a lot of those support troops are already accounted for in a brigade's TOE or at the division or corps level, so they'll leave along with the rest of the combat troops. The only ones left behind (aside from the troops guarding the American proconsulate ... er, embassy) will be advisors who will train Iraqi military and security personnel.


as we did in vietnam, we have a lot of people who we call advisors (in this case called Military Transition Teams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_transition_team) who do go out on combat patrols with the iraq's, do call in air strikes and so forth. Even without combat troops america can still be very active on the ground. There are also many thousands of security contractors who are armed like a soldier and fight like a soldier, only they don't wear the uniform. They too would not be effected by a 100% combat troop pull out from Iraq.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 08:13 pm
Re: Will Obama get ALL American troops out in sixteen months
kickycan wrote:
Assuming Obama becomes Prez, do you believe Obama will keep this campaign promise?

Assuming that Obama becomes prez is a stretch, but if all rational thinking just goes out the
window and he does get elected - NO, he will not be able to keep his campaign promise(s).
As a matter of fact, he would not be able to do much of anything for the first 18 months...
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 08:15 pm
Given what's been said, yes and no seem to be the same answer.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 09:04 pm
Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/opinion/14obama.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 09:17 pm
kicky, As we have seen on your thread, most people aren't sure what Obama will do, and that's the reading by the American People: who is Obama? Nobody seems to be able to tie him down on much of anything. Left? Center? Right of center? Anybody have a dart board?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 09:28 pm
mysteryman wrote:
That depends on how he interprets his promise.

This is from his website...
Quote:
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

Maybe somebody should tell Obama that Al Qaeda is in Iraq, and will probably still be in Iraq if we leave, so saying he will pull all troops out of Iraq, except in the case of Al Qaeda there, is like I promise to go to work in the morning unless the sun comes up, as if the sun might not come up.

Also, Obama has recently said he will now consult with commanders on the ground in Iraq to help him make decisions! How brilliant. I wonder why he never thought of that before he made the previous promises?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 09:36 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
kicky, As we have seen on your thread, most people aren't sure what Obama will do, and that's the reading by the American People: who is Obama? Nobody seems to be able to tie him down on much of anything. Left? Center? Right of center? Anybody have a dart board?

Laughing

Clue, ci, one possibility is Obama is a leftist, but as most of them are, they cannot tell the whole truth about who they are, so they play games.

The other possibility is that Obama is a leftist, a liberal, sort of, but more than that, he is a very confused man, he doesn't know what he is, he is one thing one day and another the next day, reason being he has not really figured out clearly why he thinks what he thinks, and he does not have the ability to reason consistently, based upon one grounding philosophy. He is young enough that his beliefs may be in a great state of flux, and he may be yet having things dawn on his mind that he never thought of before, he is learning, so thus his positions are changing from day to day.

Either possibility is not encouraging, I do not yet know which one it is, but I prefer the second one.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 09:42 pm
and ofcourse, McCain is not playing games; you wanna see all his flip-flops?
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 10:20 pm
kicky, I've followed him pretty closely, and I don't think he ever said he would get ALL troops out in 16 months. Far as my memory and impressions tell me, when he says he'll get us out of Iraq he means that he will change the 160,000 troops to an estimated 20-30 thousand in the region as a rapid response unit.

To me, and I'm sure to those who have been compelled to deploy 3, 4 and 5 times, that is getting us out of Iraq.
0 Replies
 
 

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