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US planned nerve gas tests on Australian soldiers

 
 
vikorr
 
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 08:14 pm
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23976753-952,00.html

Quote:
US planned nerve gas tests on Australian soldiers

July 06, 2008 08:05am


THE US military planned to test deadly nerve gas on Australian soldiers in far north Queensland during the Cold War, declassified documents reveal.

The Defence and Prime Minister's office files show that the US was strongly pushing then prime minister Harold Holt's government in the 1960s to allow tests of two of the deadliest chemical weapons ever developed -- VX and GB, better known as Sarin nerve gas.

The revelation airs this morning on the Nine Network's Sunday program.

It says the top secret plan involved allowing 200 mainly Australian combat troops to be aerially bombed and sprayed with the chemical weapons.

It's understood the Iron Range rainforest near Lockhart River in far north Queensland was the likely location for the tests.

Peter Bailey, a former senior official with Mr Holt, tells the program the request caused consternation in Canberra, and as far as he knows the tests never went ahead.

But he says planning was very advanced in the US, which wanted the operation to be kept secret because the weapons were illegal under international law.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,399 • Replies: 50
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 08:30 pm
Tell me something: do you personally believe this, vikkor?
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 08:51 pm
What would it matter whether or not I personally believed this? It is reported in the major newspaper of a major Australian city.

I posted it here for interest/information.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 08:59 pm
So, if something inflammatory like that is reported in a major Aussie newspaper it has credibility?


You post this potentially damaging article to my country for "interest or information" -- then, because this is a political discussion forum, I ask you what I consider to be a reasonable question. Your choice is to refuse to answer, so my work is done here.

In the future, why not state upfront that you're not interested in a political dialogue but only interested in posting inflammatory articles without EVER stating your thoughts.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 09:11 pm
The credibility issue? Perhaps. All large newspapers have to retain some reputation for accuracy, otherwise people lose all faith in them.

As for why I chose not to answer your question as to whether or not I believe it - that would be Ragman, because I have no way of verifying whether or not it is true or not.

You are quite right that it is an explosive claim, and hopefully there will be more information forthcoming on it.

There is no reason not to post this now, as opposed to later.

The political forum is the appropriate place to post this, the article talks directly about political decisions.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 09:12 pm
Ragman, what would have your reaction been if it was stated that England had planned the test?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 09:24 pm
Re: US planned nerve gas tests on Australian soldiers
vikorr wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23976753-952,00.html

Quote:
US planned nerve gas tests on Australian soldiers

July 06, 2008 08:05am


THE US military planned to test deadly nerve gas on Australian soldiers in far north Queensland during the Cold War, declassified documents reveal.

The Defence and Prime Minister's office files show that the US was strongly pushing then prime minister Harold Holt's government in the 1960s to allow tests of two of the deadliest chemical weapons ever developed -- VX and GB, better known as Sarin nerve gas.

The revelation airs this morning on the Nine Network's Sunday program.

It says the top secret plan involved allowing 200 mainly Australian combat troops to be aerially bombed and sprayed with the chemical weapons.

It's understood the Iron Range rainforest near Lockhart River in far north Queensland was the likely location for the tests.

Peter Bailey, a former senior official with Mr Holt, tells the program the request caused consternation in Canberra, and as far as he knows the tests never went ahead.

But he says planning was very advanced in the US, which wanted the operation to be kept secret because the weapons were illegal under international law.

This is almost correct, but the plan was to test the nerve gas on widows and orphans, and, indeed, they carried out the test successfully, killing 123 widows and 456 orphans. President Eisenhower flew in personally to throw the switch. The CIA has secret film of him chortling with glee as he kills the innocent test subjects.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 09:26 pm
Brandon9000: the fact that you have no cited reference to any source for your statement means you're without any credibility. You are privy to this tape? Please post your sources for such absurd information or go away.

Intrepid: your efforts to possibly try to pigeon-hole me as die-hard patriot are unappreciated as well as being inaccurate. I have a reasonable concern about ANY nation who would try to conduct such nefarious actions..no MATTER which country attempted it.

Many newspapers these days have less credibility than ever. Media's poor accuracy, increase of bias and fact checking has been poorly controlled for decades. For example, The mighty (well funded) NY Times has notably and infamously has been caught with its pants down on several occasions. Why would a large city newspaper in Aussieland be any less vulnerable to such inaccuracies?

Here's a thought: where else is this article reported? If nowhere else published, then why not?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 09:34 pm
Why should one disbelieve it?


July 06, 2008 08:05am


THE US military planned to test deadly nerve gas on Australian soldiers in far north Queensland during the Cold War, declassified documents reveal.

The Defence and Prime Minister's office files show that the US was strongly pushing then prime minister Harold Holt's government in the 1960s to allow tests of two of the deadliest chemical weapons ever developed -- VX and GB, better known as Sarin nerve gas.

The revelation airs this morning on the Nine Network's Sunday program.

It says the top secret plan involved allowing 200 mainly Australian combat troops to be aerially bombed and sprayed with the chemical weapons.

It's understood the Iron Range rainforest near Lockhart River in far north Queensland was the likely location for the tests.

Peter Bailey, a former senior official with Mr Holt, tells the program the request caused consternation in Canberra, and as far as he knows the tests never went ahead.

But he says planning was very advanced in the US, which wanted the operation to be kept secret because the weapons were illegal under international law.



The Brits callously exposed Australian soldiers, British soldiers and Aboriginal people as well as people (like me) who lived in Adelaide to radiation during A bomb tests in the 50's.


The US has been a cold and amoral tester of all manner of poisons, terror and gross agitprop.

DISprove it, if you can.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 09:38 pm
Ragman wrote:


Intrepid: your efforts to possibly try to pigeon-hole me as die-hard patriot are unappreciated as well as being inaccurate. I have a reasonable concern about ANY nation who would try to conduct such nefarious actions..no MATTER which country attempted it.



I was not trying to pigeon-hole you. You were adamant that this not be posted and I was just curious whether you would have reacted as much had it not been the U.S. being mentioned.

This article is all over the internet. Whether it is accurate, I do not know. Given the history of some of the things done by the U.S. in the past as far as using soldiers for guinea pigs makes it somewhat plausible.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 09:40 pm
Ragman wrote:
Brandon9000: the fact that you have no cited reference to any source for your statement means you're without any credibility. You are privy to this tape? Please post your sources for such absurd information or go away.

You miss brandon's sarcasm. He was mocking the article.

Intrepid: your efforts to possibly try to pigeon-hole me as die-hard patriot are unappreciated as well as being inaccurate. I have a reasonable concern about ANY nation who would try to conduct such nefarious actions..no MATTER which country attempted it.

Many newspapers these days have less credibility than ever. Media's poor accuracy, increase of bias and fact checking has been poorly controlled for decades. For example, The mighty (well funded) NY Times has notably and infamously has been caught with its pants down on several occasions. Why would a large city newspaper in Aussieland be any less vulnerable to such inaccuracies?

Here's a thought: where else is this article reported? If nowhere else published, then why not?

Excellent question.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 09:42 pm
Story has clearly come from de-classified documents. Now THERE's an untrustworthy source. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

July 06, 2008 04:03am


IT'S been revealed that the US military planned to test deadly nerve gas on Australian soldiers in far north Queensland during the Cold War.

Newly declassified Defence and Prime Minister's office files show that the US was strongly pushing then prime minister Harold Holt's government in the 1960s to allow tests of two of the deadliest chemical weapons ever developed -- VX and GB, better known as Sarin nerve gas.

The revelation will air this morning on the Nine Network's Sunday program.

It says the top secret plan involved allowing 200 mainly Australian combat troops to be aerially bombed and sprayed with the chemical weapons.

It's understood the Iron Range rainforest near Lockhart River in far north Queensland was the likely location for the tests.

Peter Bailey, a former senior official with Mr Holt, tells the program the request caused consternation in Canberra, and as far as he knows the tests never went ahead.

But he says planning was very advanced in the US, which wanted the operation to be kept secret because the weapons were illegal under international law.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 09:45 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Ragman wrote:
Brandon9000: the fact that you have no cited reference to any source for your statement means you're without any credibility. You are privy to this tape? Please post your sources for such absurd information or go away.

You miss brandon's sarcasm. He was mocking the article.

Intrepid: your efforts to possibly try to pigeon-hole me as die-hard patriot are unappreciated as well as being inaccurate. I have a reasonable concern about ANY nation who would try to conduct such nefarious actions..no MATTER which country attempted it.

Many newspapers these days have less credibility than ever. Media's poor accuracy, increase of bias and fact checking has been poorly controlled for decades. For example, The mighty (well funded) NY Times has notably and infamously has been caught with its pants down on several occasions. Why would a large city newspaper in Aussieland be any less vulnerable to such inaccuracies?

Here's a thought: where else is this article reported? If nowhere else published, then why not?

Excellent question.



Snort...here comes the troll Finn, as ever trumpeting thet the US can do no wrong, whatever the evidence.

What a good little Brownshirt!!!
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 09:49 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Ragman wrote:


Intrepid: your efforts to possibly try to pigeon-hole me as die-hard patriot are unappreciated as well as being inaccurate. I have a reasonable concern about ANY nation who would try to conduct such nefarious actions..no MATTER which country attempted it.



I was not trying to pigeon-hole you. You were adamant that this not be posted and I was just curious whether you would have reacted as much had it not been the U.S. being mentioned.


I was no such thing. Where exactly did I say it should not be posted? Answer: Nowhere. Why distort what I said?

I asked if he believed it. Why not check back as it's there in black-and-white.

Why be surprised that I should find little credibility in this sort of article? Does it not seem fantastic to anyone else?

Perhaps I should be more skeptical about my country's indiscriminate use of nukes and chemical weaponry? Certainly in the '50s in the USA they exposed their own soldiers to nuclear discharge. I would like to think it was due to an inherent mis-understanding of the danger but that is wrong when considering the history of nuclear warfare of WW II. Am I being naive to think they could have done such a thing while in counsel with head of Aussie gov't?

Sorry, Bandon9000: your sarcasm was missed by me.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 10:00 pm
Lots of people post articles for "interest/information" without comment. Some may feel that articles stand by themselves. It can be up to the reader to research fact or fiction.

The claim does not seem so fantastic given the history of things done by the U.S. in the past. How about Agent Orange as one example. There are many more.

I am not picking on the U.S. either. I am just pointing out that your strong reaction to Vikkor is maybe a bit strong.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 10:10 pm
Intrepid wrote:

I am not picking on the U.S. either. I am just pointing out that your strong reaction to Vikkor is maybe a bit strong.


Yes, it's strong, but at the risk of repetition, nowhere did I say do not post it...or even imply that. My question was about the motivation behind it.

My observation is that there a grand international sport for some people to take their whacks at USA. Is USA capable of doing such a thing (making errors of judgement that result in death to innocents)? No one should be that naive to think it's not possible. I just choose to query what someone's motivation might be to do so without any expression of a doubt. As is Vikkor's right to post it, I have the right to push back and ask whether or not there's a dark side in the motivation involved.

Soapbox off
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 10:17 pm
dlowan wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Ragman wrote:
Brandon9000: the fact that you have no cited reference to any source for your statement means you're without any credibility. You are privy to this tape? Please post your sources for such absurd information or go away.

You miss brandon's sarcasm. He was mocking the article.

Intrepid: your efforts to possibly try to pigeon-hole me as die-hard patriot are unappreciated as well as being inaccurate. I have a reasonable concern about ANY nation who would try to conduct such nefarious actions..no MATTER which country attempted it.

Many newspapers these days have less credibility than ever. Media's poor accuracy, increase of bias and fact checking has been poorly controlled for decades. For example, The mighty (well funded) NY Times has notably and infamously has been caught with its pants down on several occasions. Why would a large city newspaper in Aussieland be any less vulnerable to such inaccuracies?

Here's a thought: where else is this article reported? If nowhere else published, then why not?

Excellent question.



Snort...here comes the troll Finn, as ever trumpeting thet the US can do no wrong, whatever the evidence.

What a good little Brownshirt!!!


A bit cranky are we? Cool

What is the evidence?

Intrepid is right, the article is all over the internet, but it remains the one article (which you've helpfully quoted twice).

The article refers to declassified documents. Has anyone but the author of this article seen them?

This is quite a story don't you think? Wouldn't you expect other news outlets to jump on it? Maybe they will, but until they do or the until the author reproduces the declassified documents, I would say that there isn't much in the way of evidence that this claim is true.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 10:21 pm
You are correct in that nowhere did you say do not post it...or even imply that. I am sorry if what I wrote implied same. I stick with everything that I have said except for the inference of which you speak.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 10:28 pm
Quote:
As is Vikkor's right to post it, I have the right to push back and ask whether or not there's a dark side in the motivation involved.


Now there's a fascinating comment. I post an article written by a major newspaper without comment, and suddenly I am under suspicion of having dark motives for onforwarding the article?

And, for arguments sake, I did have some deep dark motive, would the article written by someone else then lose credibility because I had the dark motives to post it?

You can question my motives all you want - it's rather irrelevant because it's a newspaper article, not my article.

The intriguing question is why you even thought there might be 'dark motives' (whatever that means) for such a post.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 10:29 pm
0 Replies
 
 

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