0
   

Yes, it is wrong to view child pornography.

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 06:31 pm
boomerang wrote:
Quote:
3) It is sad that the author of this thread raised an interesting topic,
concerning an interesting aspect of public policy and public perception
of that policy, but most of the posters have been UNWILLING
to offer objective analysis of the pros & cons of issues involved,
preferring to sling mud in ill-defined, emotional acrimony
instead of addressing (or even identifying) the issues.


Ummmm....... DrewDad started this thread.
You have it confused with the pro-child porn thread that agrote started.
This is the anti-child porn thread.

I stand corrected; thank u.
I was indeed confused on that point.


I re-new my request for a definition of operative terms.

WHAT falls under your definition of "child pornografy" ??

Is a sun tan oil ad showing a dog exposing a girl's rear end "child porn " ?

How about a picture of a child kissing someone young or old ?

Is sexual activity a necessary element in your definition,
as used in this discussion ?

or is a certain glint in the eye enuf to constitute a crime ?


Please indicate what it is
that u r talking about; is that too much to ask ?????
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 07:22 pm
get a life
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 07:28 pm
My life is a lot more comfortable than most.

I take hedonic joys therefrom quite ofen; (some have alleged: to excess).
Thank u for your concern.
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 07:30 pm
you're welcome
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 08:36 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:
So WHAT ???????



OmSigDAVID wrote:
Your ability to communicate seems confined to gushing mindless emotion,
and personal character assassination, rather than objective analysis of ANYTHING;
all u can do is dump liberal emotion.

I doubt that anyone can argue with u because u do not seem to have
the ability to reason.

I don' t need to know about your pathos; keep your pathos.










Shocked
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 10:24 pm
Intrepid wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
So WHAT ???????



OmSigDAVID wrote:
Your ability to communicate seems confined to gushing mindless emotion,
and personal character assassination, rather than objective analysis of ANYTHING;
all u can do is dump liberal emotion.

I doubt that anyone can argue with u because u do not seem to have
the ability to reason.

I don' t need to know about your pathos; keep your pathos.










Shocked

Nothing that I said is inconsistent.
I stand by my question,
as to his point(lessness) in referring to personal insolence.


This is a waste of the potential of the forum,
which offers the ability to host rational discussion.

Instead we get this pointless drivel that is clearly off topic.

Its really sad.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 10:25 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
So WHAT ???????



OmSigDAVID wrote:
Your ability to communicate seems confined to gushing mindless emotion,
and personal character assassination, rather than objective analysis of ANYTHING;
all u can do is dump liberal emotion.

I doubt that anyone can argue with u because u do not seem to have
the ability to reason.

I don' t need to know about your pathos; keep your pathos.










Shocked

Nothing that I said is inconsistent.
I stand by my question,
as to his point(lessness) in referring to personal insolence.


This is a waste of the potential of the forum,
which offers the ability to host rational discussion.

Instead we get this pointless drivel that is clearly off topic.

Its really sad.



You got the sad thing right.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 10:34 pm
dlowan wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
So WHAT ???????



OmSigDAVID wrote:
Your ability to communicate seems confined to gushing mindless emotion,
and personal character assassination, rather than objective analysis of ANYTHING;
all u can do is dump liberal emotion.

I doubt that anyone can argue with u because u do not seem to have
the ability to reason.

I don' t need to know about your pathos; keep your pathos.










Shocked

Nothing that I said is inconsistent.
I stand by my question,
as to his point(lessness) in referring to personal insolence.


This is a waste of the potential of the forum,
which offers the ability to host rational discussion.

Instead we get this pointless drivel that is clearly off topic.

Its really sad.



You got the sad thing right.

Does that give u a sense of satisfaction ?
a sense of accomplishment to write that ?


Did u convince someone of something ?

Its just a waste of effort on your part.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 10:54 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:
dlowan wrote:



You got the sad thing right.

Does that give u a sense of satisfaction ?
a sense of accomplishment to write that ?


Did u convince someone of something ?

Its just a waste of effort on your part.


Discussion is all well and good around here......unless the subject is one that has been deemed verboten. The slap that you just received from dlowan is supposed to teach you to shut your trap about off limits subjects.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 10:56 pm
It is to weep.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 11:04 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:
dlowan wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
So WHAT ???????



OmSigDAVID wrote:
Your ability to communicate seems confined to gushing mindless emotion,
and personal character assassination, rather than objective analysis of ANYTHING;
all u can do is dump liberal emotion.

I doubt that anyone can argue with u because u do not seem to have
the ability to reason.

I don' t need to know about your pathos; keep your pathos.










Shocked

Nothing that I said is inconsistent.
I stand by my question,
as to his point(lessness) in referring to personal insolence.


This is a waste of the potential of the forum,
which offers the ability to host rational discussion.

Instead we get this pointless drivel that is clearly off topic.

Its really sad.



You got the sad thing right.

Does that give u a sense of satisfaction ?
a sense of accomplishment to write that ?


Did u convince someone of something ?

Its just a waste of effort on your part.


Yeah, I know.


That's what's so incredibly sad about people like hawk, agrote and you.


It's like you're missing some essential human quality. You're certainly missing empathy, but there's something odd about the way your intellects function re this (and rape, of course, in hawk's case).

It's interesting. I was talking to the police anti-childporn people, and later to the paedophile task force quite recently.

We were discussing the sadness that oozes out of peopple who think like you lot......it's like there's a black hole where parts of your hearts and brains should be.


It's sad.

It's more than sad when you act on your beliefs, of course.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 11:07 pm
hawkeye10 wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
dlowan wrote:



You got the sad thing right.

Does that give u a sense of satisfaction ?
a sense of accomplishment to write that ?


Did u convince someone of something ?

Its just a waste of effort on your part.


Discussion is all well and good around here......unless the subject is one that has been deemed verboten. The slap that you just received from dlowan is supposed to teach you to shut your trap about off limits subjects.


There's an absolutely perfect case in point.

No matter what, hawk cannot grasp that it is not the discussion that is problematic, it is his justification of rape.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 11:53 pm
Thank you, dlowan, for attending, and making arguments.

These threads cause me personal anguish - I don't argue on them as my usual feisty self.

I won't hold you to it, I know the rest of us need to step up.

Anyone want a tape of my wailing/screaming? No, of course I'd never tape myself doing that.

But really, pain happens with all this stuff.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 11:55 pm
It's not lite.
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 12:35 am
DrewDad wrote:
You can find as many special cases as you wish; it still does not invalidate the initial rule.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html#Ruleofthumb

Quote:
Rule of thumb
A rule which holds true for all normal members of a class, but admits exceptions.


"It is immoral to profit from an immoral act" would be considered a rule of thumb.

I doubt that you can show that viewing child pornography has some mitigating feature that exempts it from being immoral.


It's a bad rule of thumb though, isn't it? There are too many exceptions: charity workers, journalists, health workers, social workers, counsellors, psychiatrists, artists etc. All those people profit from other people's immoral acts, because their paid jobs involve repairing/reporting/preventing the damage done by other people's immoral acts.

What are the "normal members of the class" in this case? Do they outnumber the exceptions?

I'm no longer arguing that it is moral to view child porn. I'm just arguing that your "general claim"/"rule of thumb" is unjustified. It is therefore enough for me to challenge you to demonstrate that your rule-of-thumb is a good one. I don't need to find redeeming factors for the viewing of child porn. That action may have no redeeming factors, but it is not wrong because the viewer profits from doing it. In fact, as a consequentialist, I must regard the pleasure of the child porn viewer as a right-making feature of the action.
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 12:37 am
OmSigDAVID wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Go start a thread on how to define child pornography, if you truly do not know what it is.

Otherwise, be quiet while the adults talk.

It its very improper to tell that to an old man,
retired after over 35 years in a profession.


That does not speak well of u.
It seems to indicate a semi-hysterical state-of-mind on your part,
refusing to define your terms.


No, it seems to indicate that you write like a child.
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 12:41 am
boomerang wrote:
Quote:
3) It is sad that the author of this thread raised an interesting topic,
concerning an interesting aspect of public policy and public perception
of that policy, but most of the posters have been UNWILLING
to offer objective analysis of the pros & cons of issues involved,
preferring to sling mud in ill-defined, emotional acrimony
instead of addressing (or even identifying) the issues.


Ummmm....... DrewDad started this thread. You have it confused with the pro-child porn thread that agrote started. This is the anti-child porn thread.


My thread was, strictly speaking, neutral. I raised a question, and I posed a possible answer.

The answer I've settled on for the moment is "often."
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 12:54 am
dlowan wrote:
That's what's so incredibly sad about people like hawk, agrote and you.


Please don't compare me to David. Hawkeye was one thing. I actually like hawkeye, and I think he is a fairly reasonable debater. I just think he's very wrong about rape, early childhood sexuality, child prostitution, etc. As another poster pointed out, I challenged his views about rape in another thread, almost as relentlessly as I've defended my own views about child porn. So it's a shame that we've been lumped together just because he didn't join in with the character assassination in my thread.

But omsigdavid is another thing altogether. He is an old man who writes like a 12 year old boy. I refuse to be associated with him.

Quote:
It's like you're missing some essential human quality. You're certainly missing empathy, but there's something odd about the way your intellects function re this (and rape, of course, in hawk's case).


I don't lack empathy. I cry when mothers on the news call for witnesses to come forward about their murdered or missing children. I just don't talk about it in the middle of a debate on able2know. I don't think my emotions are relevant to determining the truth of a matter.

Quote:
It's interesting. I was talking to the police anti-childporn people, and later to the paedophile task force quite recently.

We were discussing the sadness that oozes out of peopple who think like you lot......it's like there's a black hole where parts of your hearts and brains should be.

It's sad.


I think this is a myth. There is no black hole where my heart should be. I just don't use my heart to determine the truth-value of a set of claims. That would be insane.

I am a very emotional person. But I am also a very private person. My emotions have got very little to do with whether it is okay to look at child porn, so why should I let them interfere with the conversation?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 12:57 am
dlowan wrote:


OmSigDAVID wrote:
dlowan wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
So WHAT ???????



OmSigDAVID wrote:
Your ability to communicate seems confined to gushing mindless emotion,
and personal character assassination, rather than objective analysis of ANYTHING;
all u can do is dump liberal emotion.

I doubt that anyone can argue with u because u do not seem to have
the ability to reason.

I don' t need to know about your pathos; keep your pathos.










Shocked

Nothing that I said is inconsistent.
I stand by my question,
as to his point(lessness) in referring to personal insolence.


This is a waste of the potential of the forum,
which offers the ability to host rational discussion.

Instead we get this pointless drivel that is clearly off topic.

Its really sad.



You got the sad thing right.

Does that give u a sense of satisfaction ?
a sense of accomplishment to write that ?


Did u convince someone of something ?

Its just a waste of effort on your part.


Quote:
Yeah, I know.


That's what's so incredibly sad about people like hawk, agrote and you.

I deny that I 've posted pointless remarks.
I will not waste my time nor effort with that.





Quote:
It's like you're missing some essential human quality.
You're certainly missing empathy,

Maybe; sometimes.
I subordinate the extortion of compassionate acts
and exalt freedom, individualism, hedonism and justice based on consent.

When I choose to be compassionate,
I use my OWN voluntary cash toward that goal.





Quote:
but there's something odd about the way your intellects function
re this (and rape, of course, in hawk's case).

I try to be very, very simple in applying elementary principles
of freedom, individualism to the disputed issue at hand.
I believe that I am consistent in this.

Part of this process is understanding what it actually IS
that we r discussing; how porn is defined within this discussion.
sexual activity ? nudity by itself ? a kiss ?
No one has been willing to reveal this.

I don 't know Agrote very well, and so far as I remember,
I 've only had one interaction with Hawk,
when he was a little insulting against my advocacy
of freedom of self defense. I guess u 'd have liked that.


Quote:

It's interesting. I was talking to the police anti-childporn people,
and later to the paedophile task force quite recently.

We were discussing the sadness that oozes out of peopple who think like you lot

U mean that freedom loving individualists like me
are not happy enuf ? I assure u that I go out of my way
to lead a hedonic way of life.
I travel and live it up.
About 25 years ago, I founded a group to further this purpose.
I just got back from about a week of doing that in Denver.
Your assertion to the contrary notwithstanding,
I am convivial and in good spirits.
Things r going well.



Quote:

......it's like there's a black hole
where parts of your hearts and brains should be.


It's sad.

Presumably, this perception arises from my energetic opposition
to your values of collectivism and politically correct authoritarianism.



Quote:

It's more than sad when you act
on your beliefs, of course.

U mean voting against leftists ?

or something else ?

like speaking out against liberalism ?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 01:01 am
agrote wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Go start a thread on how to define child pornography, if you truly do not know what it is.

Otherwise, be quiet while the adults talk.

It its very improper to tell that to an old man,
retired after over 35 years in a profession.


That does not speak well of u.
It seems to indicate a semi-hysterical state-of-mind on your part,
refusing to define your terms.


No, it seems to indicate that you write like a child.

So according to U,
a person shud refuse to define his terms,
if someone else writes like a child,
and (presumably) that person shud be enuf of a snob
to refuse to talk to any child.
0 Replies
 
 

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